Teamwork... does it work?
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- Antiskill2012
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Teamwork... does it work?
I've never taken part in developing a visual/kinetic novel before. The thought of doing so never crossed my mind until somewhat recently. A number of months ago, drifting in idle thought, I began to imagine a character for some nonexistent story. I've toyed with those types of ideas any number of times in the past, but this one felt different: it really stuck with me. My thoughts kept returning to that same character, and with time I began fleshing out the concept until I had a stack of notes and an overall sense for this character's story I wanted to tell. I can delve into details later, but at the moment I'm more interested in talking about a hurdle in my path.
Namely, I'm simply not confident in my writing. I'm picking up some valuable tips by reading some older topics on this board, so I guess I don't feel totally lost, but I'm still uneasy. I've hardly done fiction writing, and definitely nothing in the kind of format or tone I'm thinking of now. For all my time spent pondering my little concept, I haven't got a sense for planning a concrete narrative. My background is in making music, which I guess is why I've been concerning myself more with things like themes, motifs, attitude and what you could sort of call the "moral" of it. I have a clear vision for many elements (and not just broad, abstract stuff), but I worry if I have what it takes to put them into words tactfully and artfully.
But ideas without real-world work don't make any kind of progress. Aside from just winging it or building my writing chops until I possess the tools to do it right, I've thought about possibly collaborating with a more experienced writer. I believe I would be comfortable laying my thoughts on the table and then trusting someone else to help shape them into something good. Obviously the end result would not perfectly match the nebulous thing that exists in my head right now, no matter how much we bounced ideas back and forth along the way. Even so, I know that putting two heads together can sometimes result in something even better.
Understandably, I'm a little self-conscious about even bringing up such a plan. It makes me worry if I can contribute enough. But at the same time, I feel a strong passion for what I've got. I can also bring my creativity as a composer to the table, which would hopefully offer a unique perspective when crafting a story. So, to any of you reading this, do you think such a collaboration has potential to work? Could I make a meaningful contribution to the writing even if I'm not penning it myself? Don't be afraid to tell me if you think it's no good; I've got nothing at stake here.
I know I'm probably being obnoxiously vague with regards to what I actually have in mind, just saying "idea" this and "concept" that. I'd be happy to share more about it soon enough, but I want to tackle this question at the moment. I think that figuring out whether to seek help or do it myself is kind of a separate step from presenting my ideas for feedback.
Namely, I'm simply not confident in my writing. I'm picking up some valuable tips by reading some older topics on this board, so I guess I don't feel totally lost, but I'm still uneasy. I've hardly done fiction writing, and definitely nothing in the kind of format or tone I'm thinking of now. For all my time spent pondering my little concept, I haven't got a sense for planning a concrete narrative. My background is in making music, which I guess is why I've been concerning myself more with things like themes, motifs, attitude and what you could sort of call the "moral" of it. I have a clear vision for many elements (and not just broad, abstract stuff), but I worry if I have what it takes to put them into words tactfully and artfully.
But ideas without real-world work don't make any kind of progress. Aside from just winging it or building my writing chops until I possess the tools to do it right, I've thought about possibly collaborating with a more experienced writer. I believe I would be comfortable laying my thoughts on the table and then trusting someone else to help shape them into something good. Obviously the end result would not perfectly match the nebulous thing that exists in my head right now, no matter how much we bounced ideas back and forth along the way. Even so, I know that putting two heads together can sometimes result in something even better.
Understandably, I'm a little self-conscious about even bringing up such a plan. It makes me worry if I can contribute enough. But at the same time, I feel a strong passion for what I've got. I can also bring my creativity as a composer to the table, which would hopefully offer a unique perspective when crafting a story. So, to any of you reading this, do you think such a collaboration has potential to work? Could I make a meaningful contribution to the writing even if I'm not penning it myself? Don't be afraid to tell me if you think it's no good; I've got nothing at stake here.
I know I'm probably being obnoxiously vague with regards to what I actually have in mind, just saying "idea" this and "concept" that. I'd be happy to share more about it soon enough, but I want to tackle this question at the moment. I think that figuring out whether to seek help or do it myself is kind of a separate step from presenting my ideas for feedback.
- Viobli
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Well, I'm not sure if your story would be very long, but here are a few suggestions:
1. You can start small first. Start by creating a small game and then ask for feedback from various writers and friends.
2. If you find that people like your writing, maybe you can try and make more games with longer lengths. After that, you can start writing the idea that you have.
Collaborating with a writer has its own advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes, two different people might have ideas that differ, but when two people work together, the quality of the work is better and more work can be done.
You can ask to collaborate with a writer for a small game first so you know how working in a team works. If you trust the writer to do how he/she deems fit, you can give him/her the concept of the story and let him/her to write based on the concept that you've given. However, the story might not be what you portray, so I do suggest that you can write out the story first, and then recruit a co-writer to proofread the story, as well as making the writing better.
I hope that these suggestions are helpful. Good luck on your idea!
1. You can start small first. Start by creating a small game and then ask for feedback from various writers and friends.
2. If you find that people like your writing, maybe you can try and make more games with longer lengths. After that, you can start writing the idea that you have.
Collaborating with a writer has its own advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes, two different people might have ideas that differ, but when two people work together, the quality of the work is better and more work can be done.
You can ask to collaborate with a writer for a small game first so you know how working in a team works. If you trust the writer to do how he/she deems fit, you can give him/her the concept of the story and let him/her to write based on the concept that you've given. However, the story might not be what you portray, so I do suggest that you can write out the story first, and then recruit a co-writer to proofread the story, as well as making the writing better.
I hope that these suggestions are helpful. Good luck on your idea!
- Katta
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Have you actually written anything? Why don't you post something in Writing section and ask for opinions and advice? You understand your idea the best and are also the most motivated person to finish the VN. And wouldn't it be cool to be the writer for the game?
Though even if you do the writing yourself having someone to support you and bounce ideas with would be great.
Though even if you do the writing yourself having someone to support you and bounce ideas with would be great.
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
That could present a problem. You might benefit from dedicating the next month of your life to a "personal Nanowrimo." In other words, start writing a short story without worrying about quality, and finish it within 31 days. (Nanowrimo traditionally happens each November, but you don't have to rely on a calendar to write.)Antiskill2012 wrote:I've hardly done fiction writing, and definitely nothing in the kind of format or tone I'm thinking of now.
You might want to listen to what Writing Excuses said about collaboration. Afterwards, consider listening to their other discussions.Antiskill2012 wrote:I've thought about possibly collaborating with a more experienced writer. I believe I would be comfortable laying my thoughts on the table and then trusting someone else to help shape them into something good.
- Haze
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
I agree with Katta up there: get a second opinion on your writing to see what other people think. It may be that you actually are a good writer, you know.
However, if you want someone else to write your game, that'll probably work too. You could be credited for the original concept, additional writing(if you contribute to the writing part at all) and composing while the other person could be credited as the main writer plus whatever else you want them to help you with.
However, if you want someone else to write your game, that'll probably work too. You could be credited for the original concept, additional writing(if you contribute to the writing part at all) and composing while the other person could be credited as the main writer plus whatever else you want them to help you with.
My first completed visual novel, which is at 1.3, it's final version(woo hoo!): Monster Uses CPU 2
Finally at version 1.0: White Fog
I make one song every week, all for free download! This weeks song: Synthis- The Mirror(Eliana Remix)[Preview]
You might ask yourself: If I could only save one paragraph of the work I'm writing, which one would I save?
Which one would I let go first?
-from Understanding Rhetoric: A Graphic Guide to Writing by Elizabeth Losh, Johnathan Alexander, Kevin Cannon, and Zander Cannon
Finally at version 1.0: White Fog
I make one song every week, all for free download! This weeks song: Synthis- The Mirror(Eliana Remix)[Preview]
You might ask yourself: If I could only save one paragraph of the work I'm writing, which one would I save?
Which one would I let go first?
-from Understanding Rhetoric: A Graphic Guide to Writing by Elizabeth Losh, Johnathan Alexander, Kevin Cannon, and Zander Cannon
Re: Teamwork... does it work?
In the past, I offered my services as a writer and someone took me up on it. The biggest problem with taking on someone else's idea is that it's never concrete. I wasted a good deal of time trying to guess what they wanted and our conversation led to me essentially coming up with the idea. If you plan on getting a writer involved in an idea, make sure it's concrete. Make sure you know how you want it to go. If you don't trust your writing abilities, just sit down and write the story. Then hand it onto another writer who can simply make the sentences flow better. Never go to a writer with a sort-of idea about a dream you had and expect decent results.
(Sorry if the above sounds vitriolic, I've just had bad experiences with this kind of thing)
(Sorry if the above sounds vitriolic, I've just had bad experiences with this kind of thing)
- Lesleigh63
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
I agree with clannadman, that you should write your story and then ask a more experienced writer to look at it and either take on the writing from that point or give you feedback so you can do the writing yourself. I'm more familiar with short story writing, but I expect VN writing would following the same basics of doing numerous drafts and editing before you have a 'finished' product.
- Yomuchan
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Believe in your skill. If you don't, who will? Remain confident and remember; no matter what happens, you will always feel rising pride when you look back on your work.
That's step 1.
A team with lousy communication and coordination is worse than a lone-wolf operator. Remember to have open communication channels on your team. Stay in touch and inform them if you're having problems. Good luck to you!
That's step 1.
A team with lousy communication and coordination is worse than a lone-wolf operator. Remember to have open communication channels on your team. Stay in touch and inform them if you're having problems. Good luck to you!
- Antiskill2012
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Thanks, folks. The feedback is all very much appreciated. Honestly, the more I think about tackling this story myself, framing it as a chance to cultivate my ideas rather than an insurmountable obstacle, the more I find myself wanting to go ahead and do it. At the very least I'll take a swing at it, see how far that gets me, and then seek help as needed. Here's hoping for the best.
- Golden.Fleece
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Admirable determination - here's a wish on your success.Antiskill2012 wrote:Thanks, folks. The feedback is all very much appreciated. Honestly, the more I think about tackling this story myself, framing it as a chance to cultivate my ideas rather than an insurmountable obstacle, the more I find myself wanting to go ahead and do it. At the very least I'll take a swing at it, see how far that gets me, and then seek help as needed. Here's hoping for the best.
As for your problems on doing a team effort; I find that a very well-cooked/developed idea would attract collaborators far more easier than a half done idea. They would interest people who would come to you already liking your idea instead of having you soliciting for their help.
And remember on the team mindset: You as the project originator should have a good leadership mindset, plan, AND good communication skills. Having to rely on your team mates and collaborators to decide everything for you or vote on everything would delay most projects and create conflict. Remember, many professional creative efforts are not established on the principles of democracy but on the belief of a strong vision. This is of course not to advocate you being an ass of a dictator for a project but I believe you as a project leader should have a final say on how things should go while still welcoming criticism and input.
- Tempus
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
^ What Golden.Fleece said a thousand times over.
Design by committee is the most inefficient way to create anything. Once the central vision is reached and recruitment begins, I strongly advocate artists, writers, musicians, etc. being given freedom within their respective fields, provided it doesn't a.) massively increase the scope of the project and b.) it's consistent with existing work and / or the vision. Sure, revisions will need to be done sometimes, but the worst way to do that on a 5+ person international team is to try to get everyone on Skype at the same time and sit down for four hours trying to work it out.
Design by committee is the most inefficient way to create anything. Once the central vision is reached and recruitment begins, I strongly advocate artists, writers, musicians, etc. being given freedom within their respective fields, provided it doesn't a.) massively increase the scope of the project and b.) it's consistent with existing work and / or the vision. Sure, revisions will need to be done sometimes, but the worst way to do that on a 5+ person international team is to try to get everyone on Skype at the same time and sit down for four hours trying to work it out.
Re: Teamwork... does it work?
It's probably worth mentioning that Khara seems to work like this.Golden.Fleece wrote:And remember on the team mindset: You as the project originator should have a good leadership mindset, plan, AND good communication skills. Having to rely on your team mates and collaborators to decide everything for you or vote on everything would delay most projects and create conflict. Remember, many professional creative efforts are not established on the principles of democracy but on the belief of a strong vision. This is of course not to advocate you being an ass of a dictator for a project but I believe you as a project leader should have a final say on how things should go while still welcoming criticism and input.
- Golden.Fleece
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Not sure what you mean. Who is Khara?Dream wrote: It's probably worth mentioning that Khara seems to work like this.
Re: Teamwork... does it work?
Hideaki Anno's studio, mostly known for the Rebuild films but they have also done other stuff (mostly sub-contract stuff apparently).Golden.Fleece wrote:Not sure what you mean. Who is Khara?
And yes, the rebuild film take a considerably long time for completion, and the comitte system is one (if not the major, which would probably be the insane amount of revisions the script and similar things go through) part of it, but it's also the reason for why the Rebuild films are as powerful as they are.
- Golden.Fleece
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Re: Teamwork... does it work?
I see.Dream wrote: And yes, the rebuild film take a considerably long time for completion, and the comitte system is one (if not the major, which would probably be the insane amount of revisions the script and similar things go through) part of it, but it's also the reason for why the Rebuild films are as powerful as they are.
Then here's one thing that I would share with you in regards to Quality;
A project originator has to have an eye/ear for quality. In order to do this you should have in mind EXACTLY what you want for the end product
I can't stress this enough - this is to prevent needless revision, because you already KNOW what you want so you will certainly brief your team mates onto that direction. Never go and tell your team mates to "try and do something" but then tell them to needlessly revise (especially if you don't even know what you want in the first place). This will drain team goodwill pretty quickly and may cause ragequits and other unwanted dramas.
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