Image coloring

A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
Forum rules
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Mokuren
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:52 pm
Location: You don't want to know...
Contact:

Image coloring

#1 Post by Mokuren » Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:16 pm

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this, but I haven't seen anything closer, so...

I have a small problem: I'm completely incompetent at coloring images and can't do shading at all. It's probably because I don't have the proper equipment as well, but whatever it is, I'm in need of help.

Take a look at this pic:

Image

Aside from the fact it's ugly (I need to improve my style), I have colored it with the aid of Paint Shop Pro 7 by Jasc Software, but have been unable to do any shading. I have a couple ideas on how I could have made it, but they all involved using micro-brushes and carefully shading everything 6-10 pixels at a time, something that in my humble opinion is quite far from the correct way of doing it.

Any of you can help me with shading, please?

Please?

Thanks :D

Mokuren

User avatar
Grey
Veteran
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:08 am
Contact:

#2 Post by Grey » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:14 pm

Well, I use PSP7 as well, so heres what I do:

First scan it in and trace over it on a new layer (this is just a preference thing, you seem to have just adjusted the levels to get the lineart)
Then with the magic wand select the areas you want coloured.

Then go to a new layer (for arguments sake call it Skin - Base) and use the fill tool to colour them in. If you want all the areas youve selected coloured in then in the Match mode options for the fill tool select none, and clicking on one selected area will fill them all in.
Else leave it on RGB Value and individually fill in all the selected areas.

On the 'base' layer just do the basic fill like you have done.

Then create a new layer above it (Skin - Tone). Select the airbrush tool. If you haven't got brush outlines on then turn it on in the second tab of the tool options window. The size should be pretty big, 80-255, and the opacity ~10, and the hardness 0.

Then select a darker colour and go around the edges of the selection. The centre point of the airbrush should be outside this, and as you go over it again and again you should see a nice 3D effect building up.

That's the outside, then for the inside shadows, I drop the size down to about 20, and the opacity to about 5 (vary this depending on how much tone you want to apply or where to). Same thing as with the highlights, except use a tone lighter than the base colour.

Of course if you'd rather do it in a cel-shading style then I guess you'd have to set he airbrush hardhess to 100, and forget the going carefully round the edges bit

For things like clothes, if in the layers window you change the Layer Blend mode to 'Soft light' then use a blacky/dark grey brush then it will just darken whatever colours on the base layer, so you can change that and not have to redo the shading (in most cases)



Don't think I explained that very well, or even if that's the sort of thing you wanted, but that's how I do it. If it would help I could take a couple of screenshots of myself doing it, this is just a quick(ish) text only reply.

User avatar
Mokuren
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:52 pm
Location: You don't want to know...
Contact:

#3 Post by Mokuren » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:10 pm

Aha... I KNEW I was missing something...!

Well, thanks for the tutorial, I'll have to take a bit of time to master the technique (I'll need LOTS of practice) but looks like it works.

Personally, I find myself better at using much lower sizes and a bit more opacity, but it works, anyways.

Does he look any better, now?

Image

Thanks again for the tutorial! :D

Mokuren

User avatar
Sai
Winged Hybrid
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: England
Contact:

#4 Post by Sai » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:56 pm

There are a few different ways to CG. And each person probably does it a little differently.
1) You can also use the Layer options. What I do is have the first layer of colour I make be the lightest colours. Then I do two additional layers set to Multiply. And then just do the darker areas etc. Leaving the light base colours visible for highlights.
2) You can also do one layer of colour and use the Dodge and Burn tools for darkening and highlights.
3) Some people even use the Gradient tool instead to get the contrasts. By selecting areas with the Magic Wand tool or manually selecting with Polygonal Lasso then dragging the Gradient tool line across the area and letting go to get a gradual contrast from dark to light in that area.
4) If you're doing it like animated anime style cel shading then you might do a base colour layer and then use the polygonal lasso tool to draw out the darker or lighter areas so that they are straight and then fill them in with the darker shades or lighter shades. Then you can use the Blur tool to soften the edges if you like.
But there are probably other ways.

Oh yeah, when tracing the lineart you scan in do you use the Pen Tool or something else?
I just use the Channels method to isolate the lineart ( see here: http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~dgf/tutorials/1lineart.htm ) works very well. Hmm but I seem to get small splotches that the Magic Wand picks up making white areas when I Fill. Might be traces of when I use the rubber to get rid of pencil lines after inking? Or maybe I'm not scanning at high enough resolution =\

User avatar
Grey
Veteran
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:08 am
Contact:

#5 Post by Grey » Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:40 am

I scan at 350 dpi generally, then use the Brush tool (Paint Shop Pro's equivilant of the Pen I guess) at about size 4 and hardness 100 to do the outline. Then if I actually want to do anything with the picture I have to do some major shrinking (20% - 30% of original size)

That method looks kinda long, but I can see that it would be a lot better for more detailed pictures (like things with f...f..f.olds). I might give it a try though, just for experimentations sake. On a sidenote though the CGd art on that tutorial site is far too good >_<

Also with tracing it I can correct bits like arms I've managed to draw the wrong length and hands etc with an undo tool :roll:

You could try setting the Tolerance of the magic wand up a touch to see if that picks up those small areas.

Mokuren, glad you found it helpful :) You might want to consider using a dark grey shade rather than full on black for a base colour though, so you can apply some shading to it. Keep practising though, and we're here for C&C if it helps (like in a thread in the General forum at the moment)

User avatar
Sai
Winged Hybrid
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: England
Contact:

#6 Post by Sai » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:50 am

Yeah the method is long cos they print out and then rescan and everything, to eliminate any blemishes. Personaly I cheat and sketch it in pencil and ink it off the computer then just do Steps 5 and 7 only. Perhaps someday I'll do the rest of the steps O_o
Hmm yeah at 100 tolerance the Magic Wand still picks up the spots from the lineart. I think I'll just have to experiment such as checking the setting in which I scan at, raising resolution quality (I don't think I scan very high) and maybe seeing if Photoshop can tidy it x_o
Thanks anyway though.
Hmm I've not really used PSP much compared to PS so I dunno about the tools. The Pen tool in Photoshop though is something you drag out like a line tool but you can curve it etc. but I find it difficult to use. The Brush tool however is freeform drawing. Do you use a tablet? I don't use my drawing tablet to draw linework, only colour, I don't think I have good enough eye to monitor coordination yet. Heh.

User avatar
Grey
Veteran
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:08 am
Contact:

#7 Post by Grey » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:13 am

Ah alright, so the Brush is the same in both of them. The Pen tool would be the same as the Draw tool then, which can be used for lines, or those tricky Bezier curves and things.

No I don't have a tablet, I do all the outlining and colouring with the mouse (and some help from the undo function and eraser tool :roll: )

User avatar
rioka
Royal Manga Tutor
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:21 pm
Completed: Amgine Park, Garden Society: Kykuit, Metropolitan Blues (art)
Location: somewhere in NY
Contact:

#8 Post by rioka » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:48 pm

Interesting methods of coloring, you guys. Maybe I'll try it out some day. ^_^

Grey>> Ouch, using the mouse. I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore! I would recommned you get a tablet even if it's a small one. Much easier plus saves you time.

Sai, why not play more games? It's a good way to practice eye-hand coordination. ^_~
Last edited by rioka on Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Grey
Veteran
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:08 am
Contact:

#9 Post by Grey » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:06 pm

Heh, I've got quite used to it, so it doesn't take amazing amounts of time if I'm in an arty mood. I might have a look into graphics tablets, but I haven't got much money at the moment :(

User avatar
Sai
Winged Hybrid
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: England
Contact:

#10 Post by Sai » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:09 pm

I mainly play RPGs and Adventure games etc. So not a lot of targeting involved I guess.
I appreciate the tip though, sounds like a nice idea.
I think the best way would be to just practise drawing with it really, even doodles etc. But right now I'm happier with a pencil and paper, just that the colouring side in general annoys me so I figure computer colouring will be more comfortable so I use the tablet for that right now (although in terms of non-computer media I think real chalks/charcoal is nice..... but messy) so I guess - all in good time =)
I have done some oekaki's though, but those are just quick doodles, but they're something at least and have improved my handling of the digital pen a bit as you can see from my messy beginnings to the cleaner recent ones ^^ here: http://merchantguild.net/pronpar/oekaki ... p?user=Sai
I think the first one or two down the bottom was done using a mouse though (before I had a tablet)

User avatar
rioka
Royal Manga Tutor
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:21 pm
Completed: Amgine Park, Garden Society: Kykuit, Metropolitan Blues (art)
Location: somewhere in NY
Contact:

#11 Post by rioka » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:50 pm

Grey>> Wacom is the most widely used graphic tablet that I know of. All you really need is the smallest one which is $99, at a 4x5 size. You could probably get a better deal at ebay or other discount online stores at about half the price.
And the holidays is coming up so maybe you do some well-placed hints. ;D

Sai>> I didn't mean targeting or FPS. Just games in general. Yes, practicing helps and even just coloring will help but it depends on how you color or how you draw your line art. If you do it sloppy, you end up with sloppy results and pick up on sloppy hand movements.

I think having a steady hand is important plus patience and at times going slow. The software could help too, you know, like Flash and it's line straightening feature.

Anyways, looking at your oekaki art, that looks like it works just as well. I can see the improvement. ^_^

User avatar
chronoluminaire
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1153
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:57 pm
Completed: Elven Relations, Cloud Fairy, When I Rule The World
Tumblr: alextfish
Skype: alextfish
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

#12 Post by chronoluminaire » Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:12 pm

I'm no graphic artist. But my friend SunKitten is, and if you use Paint Shop Pro, this guide that she put together on colouring images in PSP might be useful.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users