How to do politically correct writting (a simple trick)

[Der Tor]

Hi, i allways liked all ya games very much, but i never posted anything on the Forum an i wasn't going to. But now I played Nettestadt and i feel that this time i gotta say somethin, cause i am German and i really considered this game offensive... Not cause of the H (actually i didn't even get that far) nor any racial issue or whatever... I know if ya ain't german ya won't understand why... so i try to explain it by reversing it... If a German would make a game that's set in America's past, it would propably look something like this: All houses look like the White House an all Skyscrapers look like the Twin Towers. All male Americans are extremely rich bankers and are 300 pounds + an are called either Joe or Homer an all they eat is Hamburgers or Donuts. Richard Nixon is portrayed honorable, while Abe Lincoln is a slave trader an Benedict Arnold an American hero. During the civil war the Flags of North and South are replaced with each other and are both allways upside down and the first ammendement says that human rights are only given to capitalists.

Now of course that's not done intentionally, it's simple cause of the image Germans have of Americans + the fact that we wouldn't understand why any of that would be offensive cause our history an thinkin is different. Anway now you have a pretty good idea what it felt like for me to play that game... but don't get it wrong... i am not sayin it's racist... it isn't at all... it's just that there are SO many things which are just off... it would take too long to point them all out... in itself they ain't a big deal... but it's the sum of them.

Now most of you set their games in Japan... if it's in modern japan it's not so bad... but if it's historical, chances are it's gonna be pretty much off. An just CALLING it a Fantasy Game, will explain like the monsters, but not things like putting certain flags upside down or whatever.

So the thing is that if you do a game that is set in a fictitious or none-fictitious past of a country that is not your own... if someone from that country plays the game, chances are he is really gonna be totally pissed, an you will propably never understand why.

But there is an extremely simple solution: MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOUR HISTORICAL SETTING IS FICTITIOUS! Of course just stating it like a disclaimer will save ya the lawsuits, but people are still gonna be pissed. You gotta put it into the story. Like by giving the planet on which it takes place a name different than "Earth" or by Setting it in the year 50000000 A.D. or B.C. or by making it a paralel universe or whatever. Thats how ALL the great witers like Goerge Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Jonathan Swift, Shekespeare, Sir Thomas Moore, Goethe etc. have done it, and that's how the Animes do it too. That's actually why things like Fantasy stories and Science Fiction films came into existence to beginn with... simply cause it was an easy way for the writters to make sure not to offend anyone. For example it is obvious that Klingons and Romulans are based on the Germans and Russian, Lilliputs are based on the British and the Yahoos are even based on the entire Mankind, and all of them are portrayed in an extremely bad light. But since they given them a different name... no one was EVER offended.

[papillon]

While I understand and appreciate that confused stereotypes of your homeland are upsetting, expecting people to ONLY write completely-distinct fantasy and science fiction isn't really fair. Many great works of fiction take place in mildly-fictionalised real-world history.

This is of special interest to me since, through coincidence, my huge project also has connections to Germany. The vast majority of the story doesn't take place there, and I have tried to do at least a little research for the parts that are supposed to be more nearly real-world correct - but at the same time, I have vampires and werewolves battling over a fairytale village. Isn't it rather OBVIOUS that my historical setting is at least partially fictitious?

(For that matter, I welcome an expert opinion to try and get some of the details right! Would a modern German exchange student who comes from what we call Bavaria say that he is from Bayern? From Freistaat Bayern? Or is it not common for you to use the regional name at all? How does a modern German refer to WWII - the NAME of the war? I just need him to refer to something that happened "during the war", not talk politics, but since I expect that's a touchy subject I'd like to be sure that character gets the war's name correct for a German!)

[Der Tor]

It really depends on the situation and the kind of character you want. For example if you want him to be a traditional Bavarian who is wearing Lederhosen and everything, than if someone asked him what COUNTRY he is from, it would be in-character for him to answer with "Freistaat Bayern", cause he would want to point out that he is a proud Bavarian, rather than just a german. If on the other hand you just want him to be your average modern school kid, who just hapens to be born in Bavaria and doesn't care much about it, than you would have him answer with "Germany" or "Süd-Deutschland" when asked what Country he is from, and "Bayern" when asked what State.

The German name for WWII is "der Zweite Weltkrieg". Or if it is in a conversation, you could simply have them say "during the War" ("im Krieg") and it's gonna be clear which war is meant.

Don't worry about mentioning the War. I know you think that we allways get mad if someone only mentions it. Actually that's not true, you can even make fun of it all you want, and we gonna laugh at it just the same - as long as you make sure that you don't "overerly stereotyp" or over simplify it. It's fine to portray Hitler as overly evil, as long as you don't reduce him to someone who just marches around the room and constantly raises his right hand while shouting gibberish. It's that kind of sterotyping and simplyfiyng which makes us mad - not the subject itself.

[PyTom]

Admittedly, I'm an American (unlike the game's author, I might add), but I didn't see anything that was offensive in the game. I don't even know what's wrong... I think all of us would appreciate it if you mention specifics.

There are some advantages to setting a game in an existing time period and culture, rather than making one up. For one thing, the reader immediately gets a sense of the rules an author is playing by. If you invent a fictional culture, there's a bunch of things I don't know about it, and need to have established. In anime-Japan, unrelated high-school kids living together would be considered scandalous (as in Onegai Twins, for example). In at least parts of the US, we'd hardly bat an eye at an equivalent setup. On Marklar, who knows?

What's interesting is that the reality of the situation matters less here than how the situation is perceived by the game-playing masses, since the situation is being used as shorthand.

I think it's important to be able to set games in real-world situations, or at least the shorthand versions thereof, in order to let the game-maker tell a story without having to invent a new world each time.

At the same time, I encourage people to get the details of the real-world situations they use correct. I suspect that Japanese people would be bemused by some of our Japan-set games, in the same way I was bemused a bit when watching the "Sakura Wars: New York" OVAs.

[PyTom]

I just got through reading a dual-biography of Patton and Rommel.

constantly raises his right hand while shouting gibberish

I have to say, that I got the impression that by the end of the war, Hitler might as well have been like this, given how self-defeating many of his orders were.

(Note: I don't actually believe he was raving mad, but the Hitler of the late war seemed very different then the one of the early war.)

[Der Tor]

In one word: it's OVER-SIMPLIFIED

and that to such an extreme, that for people familiar with it, it is no longer funny, but ridicilous - in a bad way.

And that refers to both - an over-simplified Hitler - as well as an oversimplified "sweet-city" (NetteStadt).

OK so i guess i gotta give examples - it's really tough though cause there are just so many, and naturaly none of them are things that a none-German would consider an issue - but Germans do.

I didn't choose the American examples i gave you at random... they are actually really the equivalent of the most striking flaws in Nettestadt that i noticed. I think an American would consider it offensive if he where to find a computer game by a foreigner in which America is portrayed in such a way. Yet if you are not an American, and know little about American history and only been to America as a tourist, you propably wouldn't understand what hell's wrong with it. And it would be impossible for you to really understand what is wrong unless the entire American background and way of thinking is explained to you.

For example the first time i went to an American school, i wrote an essay that any deascent American would consider rascist, homophobic and increadably rude - even without all the F-words and N-words (-: Yet it wasn't untill i lived in America for a year that i came to understand what was wrong with it, cause the same essay presented in an english lesson in a german school gave me an a+.

I could give you specific examples, but you wouldn't understand them without A LOT of explaining. So all i can do is to ask you to believe me when i tell you that Germans would consider the game very offensive or at the very least ridicolous.

Now don't get me wrong, i am not trying to bad mouth this game... I just wanted you to understand what it felt like for me to come across it. The intention of the things that i have an issue with was very innoscent, sweet an cute... I know that.

[DaFool]

Hi, i allways liked all ya games very much, but i never posted anything on the Forum an i wasn't going to. But now I played Nettestadt and i feel that this time i gotta say somethin, cause i am German and i really considered this game offensive... Not cause of the H (actually i didn't even get that far) nor any racial issue or whatever...

Anway now you have a pretty good idea what it felt like for me to play that game... but don't get it wrong... i am not sayin it's racist... it isn't at all... it's just that there are SO many things which are just off... it would take too long to point them all out... in itself they ain't a big deal... but it's the sum of them.

So the thing is that if you do a game that is set in a fictitious or none-fictitious past of a country that is not your own... if someone from that country plays the game, chances are he is really gonna be totally pissed, an you will propably never understand why.

But there is an extremely simple solution: MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOUR HISTORICAL SETTING IS FICTITIOUS!

Thanks for taking the time to voice your concern if my work moved you that much (though in a way I hadn't anticipated.)

However it was never my intention to make the game historically accurate and never will be. There's such a thing called "Pseudo-History" or alternate history, where writers can take a certain time period and run with it.

And it will never be my intention to make politically-correct writing. You have the mass media for that. In fact, Disney makes the same mistake in The Jungle Book, including all sorts of animals which do not reside in India.

And expecting someone to write only within the confines of his own country is unreasonable. As well as expecting someone to get the feel for a country to be as accurate as a citizen of it. For someone whose most exposure to Germany is through Deusche Welle TV, I think my portrayal of it is decidedly positive enough. And I don't know of any other renai games which at least try to get the feeling of the real-world place right rather than a generic J-setting or everyday setting while still keeping it fiction.

I have the same sentiments too... whenever a tropical island setting is portrayed and it's always accompanied with Carribean Music.

I think when the title is a decidedly silly "Nettestadt Troll" with other weird names such as "Blumenwald" it should give a clue already that it is a work of fiction. I could have set it in Dortmund or other places but then that's how I would then be severely constrained.

Give me a break, there would be no other means which I can make use of the 'bratwurst' jokes.

As for being politically correct, my next work will deal with organized religion.

[Raikiri]

As for being politically correct, my next work will deal with organized religion.

I'd better get my "work in progress" thread going before I'll be accused of plagiarism, here...

[mikey]

I'm a bit against this level of nitpicking - because the problem is usually on the side of the player (not the maker of the game), that once a work is featuring his culture, he gets very sensitive.

It also has the danger of saying that only German people are qualified to talk about German culture. I suppose one could live in Germany for decades, write a story and there would be someone saying - well, I'm genuilnely German and this is just so NOT German.

So the thing is that if you do a game that is set in a fictitious or none-fictitious past of a country that is not your own... if someone from that country plays the game, chances are he is really gonna be totally pissed, an you will propably never understand why.

Again, this is I think the problem of the player - not the game maker. DaFool's game is not even remotely offending, it does not portray Germany in deceiving ways in order to cause it harm, and I'm not sure whether that offence isn't simply thinking too much into it.

But there is an extremely simple solution: MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOUR HISTORICAL SETTING IS FICTITIOUS! ... but people are still gonna be pissed. You gotta put it into the story. Like by giving the planet on which it takes place a name different than "Earth" or by Setting it in the year 50000000 A.D. But since they given them a different name... no one was EVER offended.

There is one fundemental thing about this approach - it really feels like a disclaimer. You say that no one was ever offended if you create quasi-Russians, quasi-Germany and quasi-Japan, but really - it's not the universal solution, since it often feels alibistic, afraid to commit to something - just like in-flight journalism that never really tells you anything. I'm really not in favor of telling game-makers they should armorplate their games with disclaimers, much less putting those disclaimers into the game.

I could give you specific examples, but you wouldn't understand them without A LOT of explaining. So all i can do is to ask you to believe me when i tell you that Germans would consider the game very offensive or at the very least ridicolous.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I've been living in Austria for more than 10 years, before I actually completely moved in there, my whole work and conversations are in German, many of my friends are German and Austrian and I can't find anything even remotely offensive about NT. It's a bit weird, admittedly, Die nette Stadt and all that, but in just the same positive way as are many of the Japanese views ion the rest of the world, with their all-too romantic portrayals of Paris or Europe, or their penchant for combining random English words (Narcissu Side #2nd) into game titles.

For me, NT is not a problem - there may be other games that really bring up the question of political correctness, but NT isn't one of them. Unless there is a real reason, I think this is more or less just a case of nitpicking.

But actually we have several native Germans on the boards, so maybe they can give their opinions If we are to be completely... correct.

Sorry to be disagreeing with you right the first thread, though Nevertheless, welcome to the forum.

[Jake]

It's a bit weird, admittedly, Die nette Stadt and all that

...if anything, I'd have thought that should be enough of a clue to the player that it's entirely fictional fantasy-land stuff; if I'd been reading a story supposedly set in England, where the protagonist moves to Nicetown, New Forest (no intentional comparisons between the New Forest and Bavaria, honest) I'd presume it was just supposed to be a generically - perhaps archetypically - English setting. I mean, I'm pretty sure there isn't actually a Nicetown in the New Forest area, after all...

I can understand bemusement, but I'm not sure I'd manage offense myself.

That said, my Dad just finished reading a book ('Sign of the Cross', IIRC) by an American author, which features 'Dover University', supposedly founded in the reign of Elizabeth I and featuring buildings designed by Christopher Wren, which is as respected and influential as Oxford and Cambridge and only a short train ride on the local line from London - and he spent an hour or so ranting about this book. Although I don't think he was so much offended by the bizarre lie perpetrated upon the reader as the author's sheer laziness and lack of research, and the poor writing also featured quite heavily in his complaint.

[mikey]

Laziness is a good point though - and surely if one's writing style and setting is evoking a sense of seriousness, it's only fair to complain about inaccuracies, that point I would acknowledge anytime.

But as you said, this isn't the case with NT and its fairytale-like atmosphere. It uses the setting and the names to build the romantic side of the whole scenario, but it refrains from the heavy-handed undertone that a very accurate background would give it. In a way you could say that a more history-true setting would even work against the atmosphere. It's part of its charm. And as I mentioned in my review of the game, I actually *was* in that mood to take all the German surroundings as atmosphere-builders rather than something else. All I can say is that if the mindset is right, NT really does work great.

[Doc_Odd]

I find this complaint amusing, considering the genre. Look at how any Anime treats anything Western; Anime with Western settings or central Western plot elements pretty much always misrepresents them absurdly. Their view of America is far more wildly inaccurate than what you'd get from Hollywood movies, and that's saying something (not to imply that the Japanese artists portray Japan accurately, of course, but my impression is that when representing themselves, they're somewhere closer to the standard of Hollywood representing us). While there's a lot to be said for getting cultural details right in some contexts, in other contexts, it is completely beside the point. The cultural inaccuracies are just more comic relief in this genre.

[Vatina]

These kinds of things are in a lot of works, not only games like NT - just watch a show in TV where somewhere travels to Iceland or even Sweden and it looks like they wandering around on the Northpole. (Or when the danish speak russian in Medieval Ok, that was personal....)

I haven't played through NT so I can't comment on too much of it, but it's definitly not the worst example, although I can see your point

[DaFool]

And I don't know of any other renai games which at least try to get the feeling of the real-world place right rather than a generic J-setting or everyday setting while still keeping it fiction.

I correct myself. You can try The Loyal Kinsman (written by native German), the Silent Maiden games (written by a current resident of England), and Tomorrow (not sure here besides a couple mention of specific places.)

I did try to verify some things with wikipedia, but after the first couple of discrepancies, I thought, the hell with it, I'll just take what I've gotten and run with it. So the rest is more or less IIRC (If I Remember Correctly) -- which in most cases is not.

I could try to build a more comprehensive world... but that takes looking into the social, political, and economic landscape... which novels take hundreds of thousands of words to do.

I just wanted to build a nice H-game set in a single town... how hard could that be?

I also think Americans, Germans, and Japanese are cool and should be able to stand what peoples of less powerful nations think of them. (I also considered making an H-game set in Pakistan (since I have been there recently), but I don't think it was worth it to have someone declare jihad on my ass.)

[Jake]

Silent Maiden games (written by a current resident of England)

Probably beside the point, but... England, and not Spain?