RPG/VN hybrid? How are they normally done?

[Snowjoker]

As the title said but if that's not descriptive enough, I was wondering about games made that are half RPG and half VNs.
The typical RPG game has a bunch of stats, skills, inventory, and maybe small little sprites exploring an area. There's the VN side which is mainly telling the story through sprites, background and music, etc.
So now if one wants to make a hybrid, would it include both? The ones I've seen that are hybrids would usually cut out the exploration part with small sprites. So then is that the typical way to go about it? If I were to aim for making an RPG/VN hybrid, would I still keep the basic RPG stats, skills, and party but leave out exploration maps and let the story advance solely through my sprites and background?
That's all, thanks for taking your time to read this and apologies if that was too confusing.

[trooper6]

I think you should ask yourself how *you* want to make the hybrid. Make it based on your ideas how to do it rather than how "it is usually done."

[Snowjoker]

I see, that's true but I was wondering if there was some sort of features that one would normally to consider a visual novel as part RPG as well.
So I think I phrased it wrong but what I meant by normally was what the standard is for the features a game must have to be consider a hybrid RPG/VN.

[sendo]

As someone trying to do a VN/RPG myself, I'm curious of others' opinion as well.

Personally, I want to keep the stats, skills, equipment AND exploration feature with the smaller sprites and add VN's backgrounds, CGs, multiple endings, etc. Maybe it's just me growing up with jRPGs that I *want* to see the characters actually walking around the game world. I think it makes it more immersive?

That being said, my own VN/RPG navigation uses point-and-click, so... :/ (Well atleast until I can implement walking sprites though honestly that would require a ton of experienced coding AND art)

[trooper6]

I don't think there are any universally agreed upon elements that would make something a hybrid.

[Snowjoker]

Hmmm but would it still be consider a RPG if I had to take out some usual elements in it such as not having a party system or inventory? I was thinking if it can still be consider an RPG if perhaps there was a very simple battle system that simply has the fighters know basic attack skills but nothing like buffing or healing.
Also, if there wasn't an inventory, I would cut out equipment customization as well so it would have limited customization. The point is that there is still some type of 'battle' but it won't be like a normal RPG battle with all the fancy skills and stats and stuff.
I would like to implement exploration but it seems a lot more complicated using renpy than if you use something like RPG maker for that.

[trooper6]

What I'm trying to tell you is that one person's RPG is another person's not-RPG. Video game people can be funny. Witness arguments about whether Mass Effect is an RPG. Some people say yes, because you play a role, have stats, and make choices. Others say that because it has third person shooter elements and because inventory is streamlined it isn't an RPG. Some people insist that RPGs have branching story lines...but there are lots of JRPGs that are linear, linear, linear. Some people say RPGs must have turn based combat...some don't.

I think you should worry more about making the best game you can make, including whichever elements you want to include, and don't stress about genre boundaries.

[gekiganwing]

Sometimes it helps to look to one or more games which you want as inspiration. For instance, one of the reasons why I'd like a fan translation of Real Rode in my lifetime is because it's both a story about video games, and because it also IS a video game.

Or draw inspiration from stuff you already know. Obviously, you don't want to create a blatant imitation. But if you like a specific game, consider what you enjoyed and why you liked it. Perhaps you liked how To the Moon used retro sprites to tell its story. Perhaps you liked the patchwork gameplay and hot-blooded characters of Sakura Wars 5. Then ask yourself questions such as "What would I improve? What could be done differently?"

Maybe it's just me growing up with jRPGs that I *want* to see the characters actually walking around the game world. I think it makes it more immersive?

This is an interesting question. Incorporating character movement into the story can make for an interesting experience. For instance, there's a moment in Thousand Arms in which main character Meis falls into a room with several of the girls and a treasure box. The player decides *through moving the main character* who or what his top priority is. I'm not too familiar with Corpse Party, but from what I've read, the story benefits from its use of RPG Maker software and gameplay concepts.

[TrickWithAKnife]

...what the standard is for the features a game must have to be consider a hybrid RPG/VN.

That's a little like saying "I want to make a dubstep track, but I want to make sure it has all the criteria". It's better to just make a great song and let the hipsters argue over the genre.

Include whatever you want in your game. The genre is the least important part. I'd hate to see you compromise your vision just to make it easier to categorize.

*Glances at his forum signature*

[Ophelia]

Aren't normal RPGs already "hybrids"? A VN is a game that focuses on story and character. It mainly tells the story through dialogue. RPGs have dialogues. Some more, some less, it may look differently because modern RPGs have 3D models instead of sprites and usually not a textbox anymore, but I don't see how a "hybrid" could be any different than average RPGs. More text probably and less fights/leveling/grinding/quests. But

[Showsni]

RPGs tend to involve character growth and development through stats, using said stats to affect the outcome of fights between the characters and others, and usually some kind of inventory or items or equipment that can vary stats or be used in battle. (Of course, that's not a definition that would suit everyone...) As a minimum, I'd probably try to include those for the RPG half of a game.

When it comes to introducing combats you have several options. You could have fixed combats at particular parts of the story, possibly depending on player choices. Say, you're in the forest and your character hears a noise. Choosing the "Investigate the noise" option puts you in a battle with wolves. Choosing "Stay the night in an inn" avoids combat. Choosing "Camp in the forest" puts you into a tougher fight with wolves, where you start at a disadvantage because you were ambushed. Or similar.

You could have random combats, with different pages of the game representing different areas - say, give the character an option like "Go to the forest clearing." "Go deeper into the woods." "Head into the town." whilst they're currently in the forest, then each new place they go to has a chance of triggering a fight with an enemy. So, rather than using a top down view with moving sprites for the exploration you do the exploration more like one of those Choose Your Own Adventure style fighting gamebooks, with each page being a new area.

Or you could program in some actual exploration. I've tried doing a top down style thing in Ren'Py, and it was way too processor intensive, so I'd recommend instead a first person exploration game - as seen in RPGs like the Wizardy series, the Ultima series, Might and Magic series, etc. Nyaatrap has a great framework for this type of game in Ren'Py here: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 51&t=19245 (as used in their own game DMC).

[Sharm]

If a game had an rpg style battle system and the character interactions were all done in first person VN view I'd probably end up calling it a hybrid. Etrian Odyssey is a hybrid in my mind, but with a heavy slant towards RPG since the focus is on exploring and not story. Then there's games like Elven Relations that are more VN. I wouldn't worry about putting it into categories until after you're done though, that's how it usually works even in old fashioned book style novels.

[Snowjoker]

Whoa, thanks for your quick responses everyone! I think probably the best idea is to create a battle system of some sort first and then go with what Sharm said, deem whether I can call it an RPG or not after it's done.

[Cardboardbubble]

If you have a 3DS, consider Crimson Shroud.
It's the closest I can think of as a VN/RPG. It tries to be a digital tapel top rpg. Mostly done with throwing dice and characters as pawns.
Text heavy part is mostly done when you visit a place, make decisions about encountering unaware enemies and reminisce.
Don't know if it is the atypical rpg/vn. But it might give you ideas.