How to justify the little sister route?

A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
Forum rules
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Message
Author
dmasterxd
Regular
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:05 pm
Completed: Mage Wars
Projects: Falling Star
Organization: Star Guide
Contact:

How to justify the little sister route?

#1 Post by dmasterxd » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:57 pm

In the Visual Novel I am currently working on, one of the routes is the little sister one. But I wanna do something unique and diffrent and the adopted thing is way too common. I had an idea that they both have amnesia when they were 10. Is that a good idea. Please offer me some suggestions.

User avatar
chocojax
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:27 am
Completed: http://art.jphi.me/projects
Projects: Umbra, Familiarity, Maleficent Justice
Organization: spaceNote
Tumblr: chocojax
Github: jenniferphi
Location: California
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#2 Post by chocojax » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:05 am

Honestly, amnesia sounds like a cop-out to me. Also, a little sister route, as in, actual incest route? Or is it a "wooo friendship with sister" route?

User avatar
Laiska
Veteran
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:14 am
Completed: Queen At Arms, Cerulean, The Shadows That Run Alongside Our Car, Vicarwissen
Projects: Caramel Mokaccino
Tumblr: minesweeperaddict
Deviantart: koyoba
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#3 Post by Laiska » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:06 am

You could just bite the bullet and have two fully consenting and aware (incestuous) characters xD

Depending on your setting such a thing might not even be canonically taboo. Old school royals were fond of marrying close relatives, for example.

Alternatively, you could have the little sister's route be a 'friendship' ending, rather than romance. Maybe the sister hates the main character for something that happened in the past, and the good ending on her route would be her finally loving the MC again, in a familial (not romantic) way.

dmasterxd
Regular
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:05 pm
Completed: Mage Wars
Projects: Falling Star
Organization: Star Guide
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#4 Post by dmasterxd » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:13 am

chocojax wrote:Honestly, amnesia sounds like a cop-out to me. Also, a little sister route, as in, actual incest route? Or is it a "wooo friendship with sister" route?
Yeah, it's an actual incest route which is why I'm looking for some way to justify it. But what's a cop-out?

User avatar
TrickWithAKnife
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1261
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:38 am
Projects: Rika
Organization: Solo (for now)
IRC Nick: Trick
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#5 Post by TrickWithAKnife » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:16 am

A cop out in this context means it would be taking the easiest possible way to explain something, but not the best way. Another example would be saying "Oh, it's magic" for everything that doesn't make sense.

Unfortunately I have no advice about finding a justifiable excuse for incest, as there is no such thing.
"We must teach them through the tools with which they are comfortable."
The #renpy IRC channel is a great place to chat with other devs. Due to the nature of IRC and timezone differences, people probably won't reply right away.

If you'd like to view or use any code from my VN PM me. All code is freely available without restriction, but also without warranty or (much) support.

User avatar
Asceai
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1258
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:13 am
Projects: a battle engine
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#6 Post by Asceai » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:34 am

Basically, the way to determine if amnesia is a cop-out or not is whether it's important to the story. If it's there from the beginning and a constant theme, not a cop-out. If it's just thrown in there as an excuse, welll...

Other possibilities-
  • messy breakup, one of the parents ran away with one of the kids after getting a family court ruling they weren't in favour of and took on a fake name to hide from authorities.
  • one the children was born under suspicious circumstances, was brought up as a cousin to the other rather than as a sibling to avoid scandal

User avatar
Michiyo6918
Veteran
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:26 am
Projects: ╮(╯▽╰)╭
Location: Look behind you
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#7 Post by Michiyo6918 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:56 am

Why don't you just go ahead and write a normal love story like how you would do normally between guy and girl? To me even if two people are blood-related, I don't think there is anything wrong to love one another. Every individual person to me is just 'another human being'. (Well, if they have an offspring then it's a whole another story)

Though since it's an incest route, you might consider adding some drama + twist here and there seeing how incest is kind of unacceptable in society.

But as of the possibilities then there are:
- Parents have a divorce. The two kids get separated and meet up some years later.
- Long lost sister/brother. The two fall in love and find out that they are blood-related.
- Grow up together. The two depend on each other and slowly grow fond of each other. (To me, I think this kind of option should put a lot more of effort in (Seeing how the two have to know the different between siblings' love and romantic love. I usually go face palm at siblings that accidentally kiss each other and realize their love for each other on the next day. It's just... 囧囧囧)
Tumblr | DA | Honest Critique
“如果那个人是神。
他想渎神。
——【黑匣子】”

dmasterxd
Regular
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:05 pm
Completed: Mage Wars
Projects: Falling Star
Organization: Star Guide
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#8 Post by dmasterxd » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:14 am

Hey thanks for your help guys! I think I've decided.

Michiyo6918 wrote:Why don't you just go ahead and write a normal love story like how you would do normally between guy and girl? To me even if two people are blood-related, I don't think there is anything wrong to love one another. Every individual person to me is just 'another human being'. (Well, if they have an offspring then it's a whole another story)

Though since it's an incest route, you might consider adding some drama + twist here and there seeing how incest is kind of unacceptable in society.


Yep, this is what I'm gonna do.

User avatar
Michiyo6918
Veteran
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:26 am
Projects: ╮(╯▽╰)╭
Location: Look behind you
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#9 Post by Michiyo6918 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:30 am

dmasterxd wrote:Hey thanks for your help guys! I think I've decided.

Michiyo6918 wrote:Why don't you just go ahead and write a normal love story like how you would do normally between guy and girl? To me even if two people are blood-related, I don't think there is anything wrong to love one another. Every individual person to me is just 'another human being'. (Well, if they have an offspring then it's a whole another story)

Though since it's an incest route, you might consider adding some drama + twist here and there seeing how incest is kind of unacceptable in society.


Yep, this is what I'm gonna do.


I'm glad I could help you out! Good luck with your project~
Tumblr | DA | Honest Critique
“如果那个人是神。
他想渎神。
——【黑匣子】”

User avatar
Vin Howard
Regular
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:08 am
Projects: A Digital Ghost Story
IRC Nick: Vin_Howard
Location: Midwest, USA
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#10 Post by Vin Howard » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:27 am

What ever happened to sibling love...?

User avatar
MaiMai
Yandere
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:04 pm
Completed: [Phase Shift]
Projects: [ None ]
Organization: Paper Stars
Tumblr: maiscribbles
Deviantart: maiscribble
Location: USA, Southern California
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#11 Post by MaiMai » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:38 am

I guess the question you should ask is why do you want an incest route? Is the story going to suffer without it? If not, how else can I manufacture drama that doesn't involve it? Am I aiming this particular route towards people with a thing for incest?

Putting that kind of route for the sake of it (let's face it, way too many Japanese VNs do this) seems a little troublesome and almost thoughtless at times.
Image COMMISSIONS AVAILABLE (check Tumblr sidebar)

User avatar
LateWhiteRabbit
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1850
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:47 pm
Projects: The Space Between
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#12 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:29 am

TrickWithAKnife wrote:A cop out in this context means it would be taking the easiest possible way to explain something, but not the best way. Another example would be saying "Oh, it's magic" for everything that doesn't make sense.

Unfortunately I have no advice about finding a justifiable excuse for incest, as there is no such thing.
I agree with TrickWithAKnife. There is no real way to "justify" it, but I commend you on wanting to avoid the "adopted" route. I hate that cop-out with a burning passion. It's kind of comical when the adoption isn't even MENTIONED in the game, right up until the epilogue, when in the last few sentences of the game the writer basically goes, "but all the stuff they did was okay, because they later found out they weren't blood related!" :roll:

IMHO, if you are going to stick in a little sister or incest route - bite the bullet and DO IT. You either want it there or you don't. I don't think justifying one way or the other is going to work. People are either going to like it and choose that route - or they aren't and will avoid it.
MaiMai wrote: Putting that kind of route for the sake of it (let's face it, way too many Japanese VNs do this) seems a little troublesome and almost thoughtless at times.
Do many Japanese VNs REALLY do it though? I'd say almost 100% of the ones I've played that featured such a route used the cop-out mentioned above. I.e. they make it known early on that the siblings are adopted, or they have the "sibling" really be the next door neighbor kid who spends so much time at your house they call you 'brother', or they wait until the end when the relationship is really angsting all involved and have the parents reveal 'don't be upset, we didn't want to tell you, but your sister is ADOPTED'. (Oddly enough, it occurs to me that I rarely if ever see it happen that the protagonist is the one that is adopted - it always seems to be the sibling.)

Suffice it to say, I rarely see Japanese VN authors "commit" to the storyline being actual incest. Maybe I'm just getting white-washed translations, but that's been my experience.

User avatar
MaiMai
Yandere
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:04 pm
Completed: [Phase Shift]
Projects: [ None ]
Organization: Paper Stars
Tumblr: maiscribbles
Deviantart: maiscribble
Location: USA, Southern California
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#13 Post by MaiMai » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:41 am

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
MaiMai wrote: Putting that kind of route for the sake of it (let's face it, way too many Japanese VNs do this) seems a little troublesome and almost thoughtless at times.
Do many Japanese VNs REALLY do it though? I'd say almost 100% of the ones I've played that featured such a route used the cop-out mentioned above. I.e. they make it known early on that the siblings are adopted, or they have the "sibling" really be the next door neighbor kid who spends so much time at your house they call you 'brother', or they wait until the end when the relationship is really angsting all involved and have the parents reveal 'don't be upset, we didn't want to tell you, but your sister is ADOPTED'. (Oddly enough, it occurs to me that I rarely if ever see it happen that the protagonist is the one that is adopted - it always seems to be the sibling.)

Suffice it to say, I rarely see Japanese VN authors "commit" to the storyline being actual incest. Maybe I'm just getting white-washed translations, but that's been my experience.
The, "actually adopted" thing is kind of what I implied (although not clearly at all I admit) when I said thoughtlessly thrown in. It's like trying to skirt around incest, but hey still totally kind of like it!! So when it comes to actual incest I pretty much have no faith in it being written in a mature fashion even if it is meant to be drama.
Image COMMISSIONS AVAILABLE (check Tumblr sidebar)

User avatar
Asceai
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1258
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:13 am
Projects: a battle engine
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#14 Post by Asceai » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:17 am

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:Suffice it to say, I rarely see Japanese VN authors "commit" to the storyline being actual incest. Maybe I'm just getting white-washed translations, but that's been my experience.
My only suggestion would be to play more new titles; from 1999-2004, the EOCS (the industry association most commercial eroge companies are a part of) banned incest, so they had to do this. Since then, more and more eroges have included it.

User avatar
LVUER
King of Lolies
Posts: 4538
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
Completed: R.S.P
Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
Contact:

Re: How to justify the little sister route?

#15 Post by LVUER » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:21 am

One thing for sure, when Yume Miru Kusuri doesn't include the little sister route (not really incest since they're not blood related), I was... AM still like RAAAAGGGEEEEE!!!!! That's how important a little sister route for me ;P
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users