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A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
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rioka
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#31 Post by rioka » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:26 am

Not a bad idea especially the reviews. There will have to be some form of control over them though as I would prefer reading through a contructive review than a lot of mediocre and lousy reviews or comments that doesn't really impart anything about the game. But thanks for the suggestions, Sai! Does anyone else have ideas for the archive site?

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#32 Post by RedSlash » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:03 pm

How about a voting system along side with the reviews? People can rate it x out of 10 points.

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#33 Post by PyTom » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:52 am

All things being equal, I lean against including things like reviews, comments, and ratings in an archive site.

The first issue is purely pragmatic. More functionality == more complexity == more code I have to review or maintain. And that's just a bit of hassle I could do without.

The other is that these features would seem to change the purpose of the site from a neutral hosting site to a place where games are critiqued. I worry that that could alienate potential game authors. I'd rather let discussion occur on sites like this one, and keep the archive focused on providing neutral information on what games are available, and downloads of those games.

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#34 Post by mikey » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:02 am

I was just about to add that there could be a link to the respective topic on this forum instead of a review (though a short summary or similar is okay), so that the site can be "clean" and simple.

Perhaps a download counter or a simple 1/5 stars voting can be a middle way, although I don't actually need to collect stars or compete to have the best game around. I also see the site as an archive with neutral atmosphere that will encourage others to make games. (phew, I'm in a poetic mood today :D )

On a purely technical note there could be a paragraph with "installation notes", or requirements, I remember not being able to play Kasuka without flash on Win98 for instance. People don't read readmes :wink:

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#35 Post by rioka » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:23 pm

The Ren'ai Archives now officially has a permanent site design! =)

Grey, mikey - If there's any info you would like to change, just tell me so I can update it.

PyTom (and anyone else who would care to put in their 2 cents) - a few questions I thought up of that need answering in the FAQ page:
Can I submit an H game?
Can I submit a game that's text-based with no images?
My game is Flash, Shockwave, or browser-based, can I submit it?

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#36 Post by PyTom » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:26 pm

My gut feelings for the three questions are as follows:

H Games: Yes, provided that the game has significant Ren'Ai content. So a stripper-game would definitely out, but some of the longer games in which the H is a much smaller part would be eligable to be listed. (It's hard to give a clear dividing line, but I think that we'll know it in individual cases.)

Text-Based: Again, I think it's a judgement call. I don't want to list trivial games, but if a game has a real story arc, why not?

Flash, Shockwave, Browser: I think that these will be eligable to go in the archive if there's something there to be archived and mirrored.

I also have been hacking away at a system that limits the amount of bandwidth the archive can consume. Basically, it will allow HTTP downloads to a certain point, but if the site gets overloaded, it will only allow downloads over bittorrent (thus sharing the load among a number of nodes).

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#37 Post by Tage » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:45 pm

Sweet! Nice archive site, eclipse! n.n! And that sounds like an awesome system, PyTom! I guess I'll "put my two cents in." (in similar format because I am lazy :?)

H Games: I believe that certain h games should be allowed. The dividing line between what should be and what shouldn't be should be defined first though. Because some day down the road, you may get sick of testing h games with very little renai content. The line may seem blurry, but there may be some things that can define it better. I've got at least one thing that does.
  • The story should not revolve around h scenes; the h scenes should revolve around the story.
Edit: Also, it may go without saying, but the archive site or the game itself should have some kind of disclaimer about the h scenes.

Text-Based: If the story is very good, I don't see why not. I remember reading multi-ending books that had no pictures when I was little. They were fun. n.n Certainly, if the author of the game can pull it off, it can be a lot of fun. I believe that an author has the potential ability to paint a MUCH more vivid picture in a reader's mind than an artist could.

Flash, Shockwave, Browser: I believe it should be fine as long as the user can download the game to his or her computer and play it without having to be online.

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#38 Post by mikey » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:32 pm

Yay! Great job eclipse! I was just about to ask how the site is coming along. One thing though... ToL is not there? :? Oh, one tiny thing, Kaori was released in November (not Dec), and River Trap needs 180MB of space (not 18.). Also, Direct X is basically just for the music, so in the "Need" section it would be better to put TrueColor, because when there is no TC, there will be no transparency. Okay, those were three tiny things ^_^

My opinion about the open questions:

H Game (YES) - I have no problem with that, as long as it has a story and ren'ai game mechanics (stats-based or choice-based). As far as the disclaimers are concerned, the rating on the site is good enough for me (though Europe seems to have much more relaxed policy regarding this).

Text Based and Flash (NO) my personal opinion goes against text-only games and flash games (except certain types of Flash games, like Kasuka) I'll explain... My opinion is based on the belief, that a game needs to have 3 key game elements:
- script (story)
- graphics
- engine (gameplay system)
If all three are present, then you'd have a game. If the graphics are missing, it's a text adventure. If the engine is missing, it's say an HTML "game" (see shokushu.com). And if the script is (basically) missing, it's one of those numerous "screw-em-ups" made in Flash. (see forkheads.tk). The PK Girl would be okay in this viewpoint for instance. Also I would recommend that the game should have original characters.

Well I hope I don't sound elitist, but seeing all the people here who really put their efforts into making honest games, I'd be for just a bit of rules, so that the site will have its respect. IMO you can't really compare Kasuka with the EVA sim date although both are Flash.

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#39 Post by Tage » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:38 pm

In my opinion...EVA sim date, galaxy angel, ganguro girl, sim girl and other similar games have no story or have no renai content; therefore, even if it were in .exe format, it wouldn't be considered as a renai game. I could port one of your games into HTML format (I was just using that as an example that HTML is not limited to stuff like shokushu.com; shokushu.com is boring...); all I would have to do is use JavaScript. Actually, I was going to make my game in JavaScript until I found Ren'Py. To clarify more about text-based games...I've never played any u.u; Maybe that gives me a better outlook of how good text-based games COULD be, and I play more for the story anyway -- graphics are a major plus though.

I don't remember River Trap taking up 180MB :shock:

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#40 Post by mikey » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:58 pm

I absolutely agree - the flash simdate series have no story (while they have gameplay and graphics).

I tried to "rip" Kaori frame by frame once and put it into a HTML layout with choices. Sure, it worked (until I got bored from it), but it's not really a game (perhaps a HTML version of it), because for me, reading through a HTML does not give me that gamey feeling. Again, that's just me.

>> oh yes, 180 MB, although that would be 40 for the archive and 140 for the game - the uncompressed waves made for most of the megs.

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#41 Post by Blue Lemma » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:54 pm

Hey, the site's looking good! :D
I'll join in and share my opinions, too ^_^

Can I submit an H game?
I think as long as it has substantial ren'ai themes, a ren'ai game is a ren'ai game whether it has H or not. But, yeah, the content warning is a good thing ^_^ Maybe even stick H ren'ai games in a subsection of the site?

Can I submit a game that's text-based with no images?
I don't have any strong feelings on this, but since some people seem for it, and some people seem against it, maybe the subsection idea would work here, too?

Can Tales of Lemma 1 be on the site, too? :wink:

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#42 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:01 pm

H-Games: YES
This is just a question of how free your mind is, and I'd even allow games where the adult (or rather: erotic) content is at the heart of the scenario. A few of my best stories are erotic stories (so are a few of my worst stories, but that's not the point here ^_^). If the game itself is good, why not allow for plot centered on sexuality or the discovery thereof?

Text-based games: YES
While graphics and sound are a nice addition, a well-written plot can easily captivate a player even with only the text. I remember old-school adventures such as Wishbringer and Zork without a single picture and all text, and they were splendid. If it's a true Ren'ai game, include it.
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#43 Post by BlackSpider » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:26 pm

Nice site design. I can only hope it's content will grow with time. As to the H-games and text-only games I think it's OK to put them in provided they are really _ren'ai_ games. But as BL already said, a different subsection for H and another one for text-only games is a very good idea.

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#44 Post by Otaku Dash » Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:41 am

OMG! :shock: HOW DID I MISS THIS!? :o (probably because i was on 3 month net hiatus :x :evil:) Very nice, very nice endeed. I'll be cheking it out often :wink:
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#45 Post by rioka » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:42 pm

Tales of Lemma is now available for download! ^_^ River Trap info has been updated as well. I can't believe I made those mistakes... ^.^;

Re H/Flash/Text-based games:
Thanks for all your input you guys! It looks like the general consensus is to allow them just as long as they have a good amount of ren'ai elements in them. I'll go update the faq...

Yes, a subsection would be ideal for the H games considering we would have to put a disclaimer notice before the actual list. I don't think we should do the same for text-only games. There's no real need for it to be subclassed. If we start subclassing by type, who's to say we should stop there? Why not subclass Flash games while we're at it? Once we get to the point where we have a lot of games archived, we'll reconsider subclassing games but for now, I'd like to keep it simple. I'll just have to make sure to put a big-fat "Text-Based Only" notice for mikey. ;)

Btw, should we limit the games to actual original works?

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