A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

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Broodelin
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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#16 Post by Broodelin » Sat May 17, 2014 11:51 am

Helianthus wrote: EDIT : Well, that was fast :( . Actually, the main bully donated exactly 1€ to the campaign just before it ended. I really don’t want to have ANYTHING to do with him, can I repay that tiny little 1€ or do I really have to give him backer access like everyone else, although he only did that to mock us =/ ?
If it were my campaign, I'd still give him backer access to avoid further controversy (he might use you refunding him the money as "proof" that your game is "inferior" or that your campaign isn't "maximizing your assets").

But all I can really do is give you my support as a fellow VN enthusiast.

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#17 Post by Lesleigh63 » Sun May 18, 2014 7:51 pm

Helianthus wrote : EDIT : Well, that was fast :( . Actually, the main bully donated exactly 1€ to the campaign just before it ended. I really don’t want to have ANYTHING to do with him, can I repay that tiny little 1€ or do I really have to give him backer access like everyone else, although he only did that to mock us =/ ?[/quote]

Treat him exactly the same as anyone else who contributed and keep to your word with what the backers would get (him included). I suggest you keep receipts for everything you spend the money on.
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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#18 Post by LRH » Tue May 20, 2014 11:21 am

He backed your project, treat him like everyone else, and also consider e-mailing him a thank you note blind-carbon-copied (BCC) to someone you trust (who is not also being harassed by him) who will back you up if he tries to claim you harassed him via e-mail. My experience of bullies, which this guy sounds like, is that they come from broken homes, or loveless families, and have never really had anyone show them real kindness. When I was kind to my bullies, they stopped. Perhaps it was because I showed them kindness when no-one else would. Or perhaps it was because by being kind to them despite them treating me badly, they didn't know what to do. Or, if I want to be cynical, it's because by being kind to them, I took away the pleasure they got from seeing other people miserable. Either way, the bullying stopped, and everyone was better off for it.

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#19 Post by Gear » Wed May 21, 2014 3:00 am

Jeez. This is kinda heartbreaking to read. All I can do is reinforce what someone already said; look into the legal status of these comments and attacks. I don't know how it is where you are, but I think most countries consider libel illegal.
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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#20 Post by Helianthus » Wed May 21, 2014 7:05 am

Broodelin wrote:If it were my campaign, I'd still give him backer access to avoid further controversy (he might use you refunding him the money as "proof" that your game is "inferior" or that your campaign isn't "maximizing your assets").
Lesleigh63 wrote:Treat him exactly the same as anyone else who contributed and keep to your word with what the backers would get (him included).
I guess there is no way out, I’ll have to treat him as a customer…Which is really annoying. It’s difficult enough for the team to recover, we really didn’t need someone to watch our every move, ready to complain at the slightest error…

My real hesitation is that he doesn't seem to want anything : he’s not asking for any reward. We did say we’ll give a private access to developement progress and beta-testing to all the people that had pledged something but it brings confusion… Should we give private access to everyone even if they didn’t ask for anything (including him) or only to the people that wanted something ? :?
Lesleigh63 wrote:I suggest you keep receipts for everything you spend the money on.
Yep, that’s what we’re going to do. I think we really don’t want to mess up, we’ll have to proceed carefully…
LRH wrote:He backed your project, treat him like everyone else, and also consider e-mailing him a thank you note blind-carbon-copied (BCC) to someone you trust (who is not also being harassed by him) who will back you up if he tries to claim you harassed him via e-mail. My experience of bullies, which this guy sounds like, is that they come from broken homes, or loveless families, and have never really had anyone show them real kindness. When I was kind to my bullies, they stopped. Perhaps it was because I showed them kindness when no-one else would. Or perhaps it was because by being kind to them despite them treating me badly, they didn't know what to do. Or, if I want to be cynical, it's because by being kind to them, I took away the pleasure they got from seeing other people miserable. Either way, the bullying stopped, and everyone was better off for it.
Hmm, you’re saying I shoud give him a gift ? Wouldn’t that be like bribing him :oops: ? I fear the first thing he’s going to do will be to publicly announce we gave him a special treatment so that he’ll stop denouncing our « shady activities ». Maybe it was the best thing to do in your situation, but I’m really not convinced appealing to his kindness is gonna do us any good…I mean the main reason he’s bullying us to no end is that we hurt his ego : everything has to go his way.
Gear wrote:Jeez. This is kinda heartbreaking to read. All I can do is reinforce what someone already said; look into the legal status of these comments and attacks. I don't know how it is where you are, but I think most countries consider libel illegal.
I talked a bit with other teammates about, well, trying to get his article removed for defamation. And the only reaction I got so far is that my comrades are afraid that he’ll behave like a martyr. In short, that we give him more credibility. I really don’t know what to think. Breaking the law is a reasonable concern, but if we make the situation worse… :(
Last edited by Helianthus on Wed May 21, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#21 Post by Katta » Wed May 21, 2014 9:29 am

Helianthus wrote: My real hesitation is that he didn’t pledge anything. He’s not asking for any reward. We did say we’ll give a private access to all the people that had pledged something but it brings confusion… Should we give private access to everyone even if they didn’t ask for anything (including him) or only to the people that wanted something ? :?
I'm really confused now, earlier you wrote that he pledged 1$ so you have to give him access to your forum, which you don't want to do. And everyone said that you should treat him equally with every other person who pledged 1$ - and I agree with that.
So did he pledge 1$ or not? If yes, you should give him the reward no matter whether he asks for it or not (I'd be really annoyed if I didn't get a promised reward until I demanded it). If no, then don't give him anything.

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#22 Post by Helianthus » Wed May 21, 2014 12:19 pm

Katta wrote:I'm really confused now, earlier you wrote that he pledged 1$ so you have to give him access to your forum, which you don't want to do. And everyone said that you should treat him equally with every other person who pledged 1$ - and I agree with that.
So did he pledge 1$ or not? If yes, you should give him the reward no matter whether he asks for it or not (I'd be really annoyed if I didn't get a promised reward until I demanded it). If no, then don't give him anything.
Ah, sorry, since English isn’t my first language, I might had misused some words (like « pledge »), I’m gonna correct that right now :oops:

He did gave 1€ but he’s not asking for any reward. Which makes me confused about what to do. And the private access is more of a newsletter about developement things. We indeed have a private forum but it has nothing to do with the campaign whatsoever <__<.
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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#23 Post by Broodelin » Wed May 21, 2014 12:26 pm

Helianthus wrote:
He did gave 1€ but he’s not asking for any reward. Which makes me confused about what to do. And the private access is more of a newsletter about developement things. We indeed have a private forum but it has nothing to do with the campaign whatsoever <__<.
Just do what you'd do if there are others who donated but didn't ask for a reward: send them a thank-you note full of gratitude and move on.

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#24 Post by Katta » Wed May 21, 2014 12:44 pm

Hmm, I'm not sure about a newsletter, since it may be seen as spam if you send it to everyone who donated, but if it was something like an access to the forum, I'd expect it to be given to me without any further actions on my part, even if I don't need it. Maybe you can really send everyone a thank-you note with a message on what people should do to subscribe to your newsletter (if the newsletter was what was promised to 1$ donators).
Oh, I now understand, I thought "backer access" has something to do with your forums, sorry. I'm not really familiar with kickstarter system, so I thought a kickstarter access is given automatically by the system.

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#25 Post by Loveli » Wed May 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Maybe you should have been more specific with what every backer would get. I mean it's not the same to give 1$ than to give 100$, I am not familiar with Indiegogo but in Kickstarter people that give different amounds of money recive different things. For example for 15$ I could get a poster, but if I give 30$ I can get a poster and a bookmark for free, just because I backed that amount of money. In kickstarter people that give under a set of amount only get a thank you and nothing more.

I guess is too late to be more explicit about that, but consider it for the next time. Someone that backed 1$ should not have the same privileges as someone who backed 50$.

For now you can't do anything else than treating him like any other backer.
Just a tip, ALWAYS read the traceback when an error occurs... Even if you say you don't really understand it, it may give you a hint as to what is wrong whit your script :) trust me... I have "Been There, Done That!" :D

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#26 Post by KomiTsuku » Wed May 21, 2014 2:25 pm

The issue is that you can choose to receive no reward, which is what the person evidently did. In any normal case, this would mean that you are no obligated to give them anything since they selected the receive nothing option. The problem is that if you give them nothing, they might try to make a deal out of it and make it seem like it is your fault. My suggestion is just go ahead and give them the access/reward they would get at that level. If they start making trouble on the forum, you have the ultimate admin power of booting them from it for breaking the rules of the forum (which I would assume include some sort of trolling behavior rule). There is no real win situation, you just have to mitigate damage and move on.

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Re: A crowdfunding campaign gone wrong...

#27 Post by Helianthus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:08 pm

Hello everyone !

I’ve been silent for a while, I think I needed some time to think about the whole situation and I feel a bit better now. We’re gonna give him what he wants and move on to what’s really important to us.

You all were right : we made a mistake allowing that private access starting at 1€, it was a naive attempt on our part to encourage people into pledging. We didn’t expect the stormshit that followed so we couldn’t imagine that it would be used against us. Now, I think I understand better what NOT to do for next time (if there is a next time 8) ).

Up until now, we were optimisticly thinking that deep down, some « important » people wanted the same things as we did (to help the community grow and become a nice place) and not just personal fame, that we could work together. Well, it was far too trusting and we learned it the hard way.

We have to learn from our mistakes and even a bad experience like that one is an experience. So I want to thank all of you for your word of advice, it really helped me and the crew :D .

I hope I won’t have to post in this topic ever again :oops:

P.S : Wow, Chief himself, I’m flattered XD
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