Commission Woes

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Jackkel Dragon
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Re: Commission Woes

#16 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:51 am

fleet wrote:@jackkel Dragon,
In your original post you said "...When I PMed the composer, they refused to give a decisive comment on why the tracks are nearly identical."
What specifically did you ask, and what did the composer write in response (exact words)?
Looking back, part of the problem may have been how an accusation was implied in my comment. (I guess I really shouldn't be allowed to write to people when I'm worried/upset...)

My comment, copied and pasted:
Hey, it's Jackkel again. I commissioned you for an OST back in April, and I have a question about one of the songs.

I was playing Mogeko's Castle (english link) and heard a BGM track near the end of the game that sounded very similar to your track for my OST, which we just called "Kagami's Theme". When I played them side-by-side, they sounded almost exactly the same, as if one were just put through a filter.

I want to give the benefit of the doubt, but I'm a little concerned about this and sort of want to know what's up. To save some time, the track name in Mogeko Castle is "KarugamoMarch_126-yosute".

I'd appreciate hearing why these sound so similar to me when you get a chance.
The response:
Hello, I can't find a clip of the sound anywhere, but I'm currently on hiatus to focus on studies.
Edit: I realized there's no link to the track I'm worried about, so here is a link to the first set of tracks from the commission, which includes the track I was concerned about.
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Re: Commission Woes

#17 Post by fleet » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:51 pm

Jackkel Dragon wrote: The response:
Hello, I can't find a clip of the sound anywhere, but I'm currently on hiatus to focus on studies.
That has to be one of the most evasive 'answers' I have ever seen. He must be a politician.
Ask him directly if he used someone else's work.
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Re: Commission Woes

#18 Post by Caveat Lector » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:58 pm

Jackkel Dragon wrote:The "not proven guilty" part makes me want to be sure before I start pointing fingers.
I downloaded both the file you provided, and Mogeko Castle, and listened to the two songs side-by-side...yeah, there's really not much room for doubt, at least to my ears.
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Re: Commission Woes

#19 Post by MelodyKnighton » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:37 pm

This is pretty disheartening to hear. As someone who has planned on hiring composers from the forum, this gives me major hesitations, which isn't fair to those who are genuinely creating their music from scratch. I'd recommend the staff nip this in the bud for everyone's sake.

It also takes all of a minute to figure out who you're talking about (based on your post history and the composer taking a break for studies), so maybe alert them to the thread so they can give their side, or try again to handle it privately (though I definitely think at least one staff member should be involved in the discussion).

I'm hoping it gets resolved quickly and fairly. Best of luck Jackkel.

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Re: Commission Woes

#20 Post by Asceai » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:03 pm

MelodyKnighton wrote:This is pretty disheartening to hear. As someone who has planned on hiring composers from the forum, this gives me major hesitations, which isn't fair to those who are genuinely creating their music from scratch. I'd recommend the staff nip this in the bud for everyone's sake.
Legitimate composers often take several passes over a song and can give you intermediary examples along the way if you ask for them. That's probably a good way to go - it also means you can provide feedback about the direction you want for the track before too much work has been invested in it.

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Re: Commission Woes

#21 Post by MelodyKnighton » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:22 pm

Yeah, you're absolutely right Asceai. There are certainly things you can do to lessen your chances of ending up in a bad situation like this, it's just sad to see it happen to such a tight knit community. :<

I just hope none of the composer's other clients have games compromised due to similar tactics. That would be a real shame. Their insanely fast turn around time does seem a little odd in retrospect. It's not my place, but I hope Jackkel or the staff contacts the rest of the people who received commissions from this persons recruitment thread. They seem to have an equal stake in the outcome. Fingers crossed it was a one time deal.

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Re: Commission Woes

#22 Post by MapleWizen » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:35 pm

KarugamoMarch_126-yosute is from Karugamo Koushinkyoku: https://sites.google.com/site/karu6615/

On the FAQ page it says this
楽曲アレンジも可能ですが、その際は一報ください。
TL: You may make arranges, but please tell me what you're doing first.
So yeah, whatever composer Jackkel Dragon is talking about might be stealing.

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Re: Commission Woes

#23 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:51 am

I tried to PM the composer again, but so far I haven't received a response.

In response to Asceai, this composer did provide 30-second samples of the tracks during the commission, including the track that may have been stolen. However, since I hadn't heard the original version before, I didn't know it was an existing piece of music.
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  • Blooming Nightshade: A lighthearted Romance Visual Novel set at the school from Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
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Re: Commission Woes

#24 Post by LeetMusic » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:15 pm

How much did you pay for the music? Not that it matters in terms of ethics, but I would be skeptical of someone promising to compose custom music for $5 bucks.

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Re: Commission Woes

#25 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:25 pm

LeetMusic wrote:How much did you pay for the music? Not that it matters in terms of ethics, but I would be skeptical of someone promising to compose custom music for $5 bucks.
I don't know where I have the specific breakdowns, but it was ~550 USD for 16 tracks. So a little more than 30 USD per track.
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  • Eldritch University: A Horror/Romance Visual Novel; the follow-up to Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
  • Blooming Nightshade: A lighthearted Romance Visual Novel set at the school from Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
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Re: Commission Woes

#26 Post by Shoko » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:40 pm

The reason it sounds like there's a filter is because he/she dropped the original .MIDI file into a DAW and just replaced the instruments. Definitely not worth 30$ for that. :(

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Re: Commission Woes

#27 Post by chronicle-visuals » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:02 pm

Thirty bucks for a stolen, warped song...

...wow. I can only hope other people weren't scammed as well.
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Re: Commission Woes

#28 Post by Greeny » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:30 am

Since this composer was right here in the Lemma Sort forum recruitment section, it's highly likely others were.

I think that in the very least you should confirm the identity of the suspect in private to concerned individuals that they may research it themselves. They have a right to know they've been scammed. And others might have their own evidence of suspicious behavior to add.
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Re: Commission Woes

#29 Post by Armee » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:12 am

I have been talking to Jackkel Dragon and it seemed like this is not the first time the composer in the story did this.
I'm not a victim of some sorts but I have seen he did these kind of things before. Using music from TAM Music Factory, claimed as his own and selling them on Bandcamp.

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Re: Commission Woes

#30 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:09 pm

Still no response from the composer after my second PM about two days ago...

Should I just start warning the people who had posted in the composer's recruitment thread to check what they received to make sure it wasn't stolen? I don't want to pester people, but if this isn't an isolated occurrence then potentially anyone who bought from this composer may have stolen music.

I'm also not sure what to do with the other music by the composer from the commission... Even if only the one track was stolen, I'm going to be really paranoid about using any of the music now.
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Includes information about and links to many of my current and past projects.

Current Projects:
  • Eldritch Academy: A Romance/Paranormal Thriller Visual Novel about a Japanese boarding school's dark secret. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
  • Eldritch University: A Horror/Romance Visual Novel; the follow-up to Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
  • Blooming Nightshade: A lighthearted Romance Visual Novel set at the school from Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
  • Novels and short stories. (Shireishi, Those That Linger: GhostSense, and more) [Nightshade]
  • Corpse Party D2: A series of RPG Maker and Ren'Py fangames based on CORPSE-PARTY's D-2 ending. [Team Despair]

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