Commission Woes

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Asceai
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Re: Commission Woes

#31 Post by Asceai » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:25 pm

Jackkel Dragon wrote:I'm also not sure what to do with the other music by the composer from the commission... Even if only the one track was stolen, I'm going to be really paranoid about using any of the music now.
From the sounds of it, you aren't in legal trouble for using it, you just don't necessarily have the exclusivity you thought you had. Although I understand that you don't necessarily want to trust someone who already breached your trust once with responsible IP use.

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Re: Commission Woes

#32 Post by Caveat Lector » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 pm

Jackkel Dragon wrote:Should I just start warning the people who had posted in the composer's recruitment thread to check what they received to make sure it wasn't stolen? I don't want to pester people, but if this isn't an isolated occurrence then potentially anyone who bought from this composer may have stolen music.

I'm also not sure what to do with the other music by the composer from the commission... Even if only the one track was stolen, I'm going to be really paranoid about using any of the music now.
Yes, DO warn anyone who has posted in the composer's thread, at least privately. As for the rest of the music, it's probably best not to take your chances, especially not if you're planning to go commercial. All else failing, there's still good ol' Kevin McLeod!
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Re: Commission Woes

#33 Post by Tempus » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:11 pm

Jackkel Dragon wrote:Should I just start warning the people who had posted in the composer's recruitment thread
If they have a thread in the recruitment forum, post in it explaining your experience. It's perfectly normal to give feedback on someone's services after experiencing them, whether good or bad. It's not like you're forced to condemn them or make some judgement -- just state what you know and others can draw their own conclusions.
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Re: Commission Woes

#34 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:24 pm

Tempus wrote:
Jackkel Dragon wrote:Should I just start warning the people who had posted in the composer's recruitment thread
If they have a thread in the recruitment forum, post in it explaining your experience. It's perfectly normal to give feedback on someone's services after experiencing them, whether good or bad. It's not like you're forced to condemn them or make some judgement -- just state what you know and others can draw their own conclusions.
The issue there is that the recruitment thread is locked now... it has been locked since about a day after I first PMed the composer. Part of what made me suspicious is that the thread was edited to say that commissions were closed after I got their response to my PM and that the thread was locked shortly afterward.
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Re: Commission Woes

#35 Post by Caveat Lector » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:31 am

So maybe you can try sending PM's to those who posted in the topic?
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Re: Commission Woes

#36 Post by fleet » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:10 am

Jackkel Dragon wrote:
Tempus wrote:
Jackkel Dragon wrote:Should I just start warning the people who had posted in the composer's recruitment thread
If they have a thread in the recruitment forum, post in it explaining your experience. It's perfectly normal to give feedback on someone's services after experiencing them, whether good or bad. It's not like you're forced to condemn them or make some judgement -- just state what you know and others can draw their own conclusions.
The issue there is that the recruitment thread is locked now... it has been locked since about a day after I first PMed the composer. Part of what made me suspicious is that the thread was edited to say that commissions were closed after I got their response to my PM and that the thread was locked shortly afterward.

I am not a moderator. To the best of my knowledge, only moderators or administrators can lock a topic.
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Re: Commission Woes

#37 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:42 pm

I sent a message to some of the people who had posted in the composer's thread pointing them to this thread with some information about what happened. Hopefully no one else was scammed, though...

@fleet: That doesn't change that the thread ended up locked. Is it possible to request a lock from a moderator?

At any rate, I might just link to the thread in question if the composer decides not to comment. It's not fair to them if they're genuinely too busy to respond to my PM, but it's been almost three days and it's looking like the evidence is against them...
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Re: Commission Woes

#38 Post by fleet » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:11 pm

Jackkel Dragon wrote:
@fleet: That doesn't change that the thread ended up locked. Is it possible to request a lock from a moderator?
I'm sorry; I should have said that I didn't believe the original poster of the recruiting topic had the capability to lock the topic, that only admins and moderators could do that.
I don't see why you could not send a PM to Pytom and ask that the thread be unlocked, or ask why it was locked. The worst that could happen is that he would say 'No."
There might be information that he might convey to you via PM that he would not wish to post in open forum.

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Re: Commission Woes

#39 Post by MelodyKnighton » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:48 pm

You should contact PyTom regardless if you haven't already. If it's true the composer is illegally selling music, I'm sure that's grounds for banning from the site.

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Re: Commission Woes

#40 Post by LeetMusic » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:44 am

Taking music from elsewhere and claiming it as your own is totally reprehensible and makes all composers look bad. Really sorry to hear this. Does this composer have their own website or just something like a Soundcloud page? When working with a reputable professional, there is communication going back and forth between the composer and developer and you will hear the music as a work in progress. So even if a draft sounds unfinished or needs to be changed then at least you know you are getting genuine original work.

Charging $30 for a piece of music as a work for hire is really really low. If the music has to sound great then it is labor intensive and this price does not pay for much time. I would be skeptical about a composer promising professional sounding work for such a low price. If I offered to build you a car for $100 bucks would you trust me, or would you be concerned that there is a serious problem with the car? Offering a low price point is great, but also crucial is honesty, quality and reliability.

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Re: Commission Woes

#41 Post by Greeny » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:59 am

I commissioned this composer and when I requested minute changes such as "remove just the percussion", etc, they were completely unable to. Never provided much of an excuse, either. I also asked them to provide a new track with the rythm and beat from another track and again, they did not deliver. Once I asked to a more sad extra version of one track, first they gave me the exact same track with single tone modifier effect.

Thus far my testimony.
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Re: Commission Woes

#42 Post by Lishy » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:18 pm

I'm a blunt asshole, so I'm going to go ahead and just link MusicAO's thread which Jackkel Dragon PMed me. Dunno why people haven't so far.

Thread of the scammer in all his glory before he decided to mysteriously disappear from the internet

I knew he was a scammer, but for only $20, I wanted to see how much he would complain when asked to make simple changes to a song. He had a part which sounded REALLY shitty, and it was weeks worth of waiting just for him to edit that one part. It was really entertaining to watch him struggle and insult a customer for "being picky..." yet still expecting pay.

If he is a scammer, then I hope his PayPal account gets shut down. But if he is somehow innocent, then that is his burden to prove.

I'm not going to use nice words to describe someone who insulted me and profits off other peoples' music. If he is a scammer, then he deserves public scrutiny! But if he is just a shitty composer who insults his customers, then let it be known to the world!

Tip: NEVER commission someone unless they have a sound cloud with past work and ways to contact them!
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Re: Commission Woes

#43 Post by Jackkel Dragon » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:41 pm

LeetMusic wrote:Taking music from elsewhere and claiming it as your own is totally reprehensible and makes all composers look bad. Really sorry to hear this. Does this composer have their own website or just something like a Soundcloud page? When working with a reputable professional, there is communication going back and forth between the composer and developer and you will hear the music as a work in progress. So even if a draft sounds unfinished or needs to be changed then at least you know you are getting genuine original work.

Charging $30 for a piece of music as a work for hire is really really low. If the music has to sound great then it is labor intensive and this price does not pay for much time. I would be skeptical about a composer promising professional sounding work for such a low price. If I offered to build you a car for $100 bucks would you trust me, or would you be concerned that there is a serious problem with the car? Offering a low price point is great, but also crucial is honesty, quality and reliability.
Now that the composer's identity is out there, here is the composer's SoundCloud page. The original link from the composer's recruitment thread is down, but some links remain on pages 3 and 4.

As for the rest, this was my very first time attempting to commission a composer, so I didn't know what to expect during the process. Looking back, that made me a very easy target...

Now, I'm not sure what I should do regarding music for my own project. It's still a long way off from release, but I don't have the kind of money I'd need to get a custom soundtrack. Unless there's music available for free that is also royalty-free, I might have to release the game without music until I am able to pay for a soundtrack.
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  • Eldritch University: A Horror/Romance Visual Novel; the follow-up to Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
  • Blooming Nightshade: A lighthearted Romance Visual Novel set at the school from Eldritch Academy. (itch.io) [Nightshade]
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Re: Commission Woes

#44 Post by Greeny » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:44 pm

A good source of quality royalty-free music is Musopen, which hosts public-domain classical music. The big plus in using famous compositions is that nobody is going to care that it's reusable music.
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Re: Commission Woes

#45 Post by MelodyKnighton » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:48 pm

http://www.fiverr.com/hollyao/compose-y ... ic-request

They seem to do a lot of business on fiverr as well. If it's not too late, i'd file a complaint with paypal (if you went through them), or even your credit card company. You could potentially file a report with the police as well since you paid quite a bit in total.

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