Deciding which to give a sprite?
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- Shinoki
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Deciding which to give a sprite?
Well, I've been thinking that some vn have sprites for literally all characters...
Some have sprites for some characters.... but there seem to be sprites for extras too...
And... so on, so how do you decide which character to give a sprite for?
I'm aware that having too many is problematic for the artist...and maybe your finances... but, otherwise, how to decide?
What points of a character's role makes it so there should be a sprite?
Some have sprites for some characters.... but there seem to be sprites for extras too...
And... so on, so how do you decide which character to give a sprite for?
I'm aware that having too many is problematic for the artist...and maybe your finances... but, otherwise, how to decide?
What points of a character's role makes it so there should be a sprite?
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
Personally I'm a firm believer in 'A sprite for all and a Christmas goose'. I find having the player talking to someone who's there plus their invisible friend for the day pulls me out of the moment since I'm suddenly constructing a character in my head just to get through the scene. Because of this, I've got sprites with full expression ranges for literally 1-line characters in my projects. Overkill? Maybe, but make the game ya want to play I guess
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
Usually characters should have a sprite if they have more than, say, 20 lines. For example if your game only has a 10 line conversation with Old Man Jenkins, it might not be a good idea to give him a sprite. But if it has a 100 line conversation with the Bartender, you may want to give him a sprite.
If you have a high budget though, or if it's a commercial game, you may want to consider giving even more minor characters an interchangeable sprite that can be re-used. It also helps to develop the atmosphere of the universe.
If you have a high budget though, or if it's a commercial game, you may want to consider giving even more minor characters an interchangeable sprite that can be re-used. It also helps to develop the atmosphere of the universe.
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
- The protagonist: probably the easiest character to can, sprite-wise - it can be nice to be able to see your protagonist's face, which can make a decent argument for side images, but those are much less work than full body or bust shots
- Winnable characters: if your VN has sprites you should sprite these characters if no-one else. I can think of one or two exceptions in the commercial VN world - one was a gag ending with a character who didn't have a sprite (and the game made fourth wall breaking jokes about it- although she appeared in a CG at the end of) and the other was a brain in a jar, who appeared in CG form in that route's metaphysical ending (and even got a H scene), but in general it's not done
- Sub-characters: characters that aren't winnable characters nor the protagonist, but are more important than one-liners. They may play an important role in the story, or they may simply be frequently recurring. This call is basically up to your budget, but consider this - players will almost definitely prefer more CGs for winnable characters than sprites for unwinnable characters. You might even determine some are important enough for sprites while others aren't.
- Transient characters / role characters: characters like 'Police Officer', 'Nurse', 'Schoolgirl A', or named characters that appear for a few lines and never show up again. As a general rule these characters aren't sprited, but if you do choose to sprite them you can get away with generic or templated characters and some clever reuse. Of course, if you don't have too many you might just want to draw them all anyway.
This consideration is basically a function or your art budget and the narrative style of your game. Some VNs consist of only the protagonist and winnable characters - some VNs contain hundreds of characters. This is also important to consider when deciding which characters get the full sprite treatment (and within that, which characters get e.g. a full set of poses and outfits and which get one pose and outfit with three facial expressions.)
- Winnable characters: if your VN has sprites you should sprite these characters if no-one else. I can think of one or two exceptions in the commercial VN world - one was a gag ending with a character who didn't have a sprite (and the game made fourth wall breaking jokes about it- although she appeared in a CG at the end of) and the other was a brain in a jar, who appeared in CG form in that route's metaphysical ending (and even got a H scene), but in general it's not done
- Sub-characters: characters that aren't winnable characters nor the protagonist, but are more important than one-liners. They may play an important role in the story, or they may simply be frequently recurring. This call is basically up to your budget, but consider this - players will almost definitely prefer more CGs for winnable characters than sprites for unwinnable characters. You might even determine some are important enough for sprites while others aren't.
- Transient characters / role characters: characters like 'Police Officer', 'Nurse', 'Schoolgirl A', or named characters that appear for a few lines and never show up again. As a general rule these characters aren't sprited, but if you do choose to sprite them you can get away with generic or templated characters and some clever reuse. Of course, if you don't have too many you might just want to draw them all anyway.
This consideration is basically a function or your art budget and the narrative style of your game. Some VNs consist of only the protagonist and winnable characters - some VNs contain hundreds of characters. This is also important to consider when deciding which characters get the full sprite treatment (and within that, which characters get e.g. a full set of poses and outfits and which get one pose and outfit with three facial expressions.)
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
My opinion is that every character that speaks should have a sprite, if it's a minor-minor character with 1-2 lines, then of course it'd be a waste of budget to get them a sprite too, but then it should be pretty easy to remove him from dialog into indirect descriptions. I really hate it when I'm made to speak with an empty place.
Side images of MC are nice but not that necessary imo, and I find MC's sprites (the ones that appear on screen the same size and position as other sprites) quite weird. Especially if the game is written in first person I guess.
Side images of MC are nice but not that necessary imo, and I find MC's sprites (the ones that appear on screen the same size and position as other sprites) quite weird. Especially if the game is written in first person I guess.
- Tyrantauranox
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I know that even "big budget" VN's skip illustrations and voices for very minor characters, but it's always jarring for me when they do that. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but it really makes their work look like Amateur-Hour at those points.
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I'm doing all the art and writing for my VN, and all characters- even the minor ones, are going to have sprites.
Yes, it takes more time (and if you're paying someone, more money) to do. But if that character is in the story, then I think they deserve to have sprites. I hate playing a game where I am having a conversation with a faceless character. It takes me out of that world, breaks my immersion, and reminds me that I am just playing a game. I think that is poor design and story telling, because when you create a visual novel, the goal is to bring players into your world and keep them there.
Yes, it takes more time (and if you're paying someone, more money) to do. But if that character is in the story, then I think they deserve to have sprites. I hate playing a game where I am having a conversation with a faceless character. It takes me out of that world, breaks my immersion, and reminds me that I am just playing a game. I think that is poor design and story telling, because when you create a visual novel, the goal is to bring players into your world and keep them there.
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I like having a sprite for everyone, but I've seen it work in a lot of VNs like Rewrite and such where the majority of minor characters, and even a few of the villains don't have sprites. Thats probably what I'll end up going with since; 1: I don't want to burden my artists with drawing that old lady who pops up briefly in one scene, and 2: I like to populate my settings to be vibrant and full of life. Talk about costly. (It always feels kinda lonely when its just the protagonist, the one guy friend, and then a minimalist all female cast.) So basically just the protagonists, side characters who are story centric, and of course the heroines will be emphasized with sprites. The rest, there's really not much point seeing as how I don't expect them to be very memorable anyways.
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I've seen VNs that choose to give every character a side sprite, but only important characters get a full sprite. Sort of a minimalistic thing where there'll be only about 3 poses for the full sprites, all with just a single expression, with all the expressions in the headshots.
- Rossfellow
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I've observed and adapted how Persona 3P handles sprites- Unimportant, minor characters that make appearances have one generic sprite, recurring minor characters have one sprite base with a small set of expressions, and major characters have three sprite bases (static, basic, and strong gestures) with multiple expressions on each base, as well as different outfits. I think its easy and a good standard that catches a lot of different types of VN stories.
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I usually give minor characters (like seatmates, clerks, other NPCs) no sprites.
I give secondary characters sprites "as-is" or just list the exact expressions they use. Same goes for the main characters.
As for the protagonist, I prefer to leave him with no sprites at all.
I give secondary characters sprites "as-is" or just list the exact expressions they use. Same goes for the main characters.
As for the protagonist, I prefer to leave him with no sprites at all.
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I like to give sprites to minor characters as well if they have names LOL. But for random people whom the MC meets at random times, then I won't bother making ones. It also depends on your game though. If it's long, it's better to give names and sprites for minor characters who at least appear twice. I mean, more characters is cool, isn't it?
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Re: Deciding which to give a sprite?
I think this is a writing problem to some degree. First of all, I would avoid including characters who are not significant, period. It's tempting to give dialogue to every character, but... there are definitely VNs where I've sat through boring conversations with characters who didn't move the story forward with their inclusion in the story. Unless a character has a significant role or impact, I think it's better to just summarize minor interactions instead. A character introduced in a summarized interaction doesn't need a new sprite.
By summarizing, I mean something like, "Bob went to purchase food from the vendor, but when he returned, arms full, we all groaned at the sight of beets and potatoes," or "Mom came by to drop off a box of my old junk, claiming she was cleaning out her attic, but I knew she was still annoyed with my last phone call." In the first example, I seriously doubt anyone cares what the vendor has to say or what he looks like. In the second, it's a bit more iffy, depending on how much the story is about the protagonist and her mother. Of course, if the whole point of Mom dropping off the box of stuff is for the protagonist to find a magical amulet at the bottom... then summary works.
Anyway, if I find myself adding a character I didn't initially plan for, and I can't summarize the interaction for whatever reason, (too much summary can get tedious, fast), then I might ask these kinds of questions:
1. Why can't I summarize this minor character's interaction in a sentence or two? / Why is dialogue with this character necessary?
2. Why must the character show up in person? Could he be replaced by an email conversation, a letter, an IM, a phone call, a telegram, or some other long distance means of communication?
3. Does he fulfill a similar role to anyone else in the story? If so, can I combine this minor character with another existing character?
4. If I can't combine this character, what about him is so significant to the plot that he demands his own space? And if he's not that significant after all, can I just edit him out?
If I go through these questions and the answers are in favor of the character, then he's probably worth a sprite and some fleshing out.
In short - I agree wholeheartedly with those above who don't like to have a conversation with a faceless character. However, it still takes time/resources to make art assets. One solution is to streamline the story and make sure the minor character really has to be in the story in the first place. That's how I approach it, anyway.
By summarizing, I mean something like, "Bob went to purchase food from the vendor, but when he returned, arms full, we all groaned at the sight of beets and potatoes," or "Mom came by to drop off a box of my old junk, claiming she was cleaning out her attic, but I knew she was still annoyed with my last phone call." In the first example, I seriously doubt anyone cares what the vendor has to say or what he looks like. In the second, it's a bit more iffy, depending on how much the story is about the protagonist and her mother. Of course, if the whole point of Mom dropping off the box of stuff is for the protagonist to find a magical amulet at the bottom... then summary works.
Anyway, if I find myself adding a character I didn't initially plan for, and I can't summarize the interaction for whatever reason, (too much summary can get tedious, fast), then I might ask these kinds of questions:
1. Why can't I summarize this minor character's interaction in a sentence or two? / Why is dialogue with this character necessary?
2. Why must the character show up in person? Could he be replaced by an email conversation, a letter, an IM, a phone call, a telegram, or some other long distance means of communication?
3. Does he fulfill a similar role to anyone else in the story? If so, can I combine this minor character with another existing character?
4. If I can't combine this character, what about him is so significant to the plot that he demands his own space? And if he's not that significant after all, can I just edit him out?
If I go through these questions and the answers are in favor of the character, then he's probably worth a sprite and some fleshing out.
In short - I agree wholeheartedly with those above who don't like to have a conversation with a faceless character. However, it still takes time/resources to make art assets. One solution is to streamline the story and make sure the minor character really has to be in the story in the first place. That's how I approach it, anyway.
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