Should I actually bother trying to make a VN?

[Eight Rooks]

(No, wait, hear me out. It's a serious question; I don't want people to tell me definitively Yes or No as much as I'm just curious what internet strangers think of my situation. If you're interested, keep going. If not and this is just tl;dr, no worries. And, uh, sorry if this is the wrong forum!)

I'm a writer, I guess? I've been working on various things on and off over the years, but it's only recently - since going back to university and finishing a Creative Writing course - I've come up with a bunch of short stories and and novellas that I'm actually happy with. They're far from perfect, obviously! But I think they're much, much better than anything else I've ever done. On the other hand I've not managed to do anything with them yet. None of them are long enough yet to make an individual book, and I haven't "finished" enough of them (proofread, got feedback etc.) to decide on a few to put into a collection. I thought of blogging some of them, on a Tumblr, say, under a Creative Commons license, but I still haven't got that going properly (I did make a start on it but I'm ill at the moment, haven't slept properly in a month, it's kinda hard to keep up any routine other than taking meds right now).

Anyway. I play games (duh) and I've been interested in visual novels on and off for a while (since the Dreamcast), and while I was going over one of my older manuscripts I thought "Why don't you try and turn this into a game?". I'd shelved it, because I wasn't so happy with the way the writing had turned out compared to the others, but I still liked the idea, and it struck me it was the one story I had all finished that lent itself to plot > plot > DECISION > plot, etc.

I broke it down into stages. I plotted a flowchart for it in yEd. I identified stuff I could use as events or decision points or what have you (sorry, I don't know the right terminology off the top of my head). I started work on re-writing it - I stress the actual story, the plot, is finished, but it was in third person to start with and VNs are typically first, and the writing really wasn't good enough to suit the protagonist's POV. I considered Twine, but Twine seems frustratingly hard - I looked up the basic Ren'Py tutorials and realised I could have something working, like, in a couple of minutes, and just keep fleshing it out bit by bit. Which is what I've been doing (I'm maybe 90% through the Ren'Py framework and halfway through the rewrite?).

The thing is, writing is pretty much all I do. I could draw, a long, long time ago, but while I've got a lot of time on my hands I don't think I could face the effort it would take to get good enough to satisfy my own standards. I can't do music. I don't have any RL friends who are remotely into this sort of thing - certainly not any I could afford to pay.

I thought I could at least pull some PD photos off the net and stick them in as placeholder backgrounds, I suppose? (We're talking fairly elaborate, detailed landscapes here - shots of kitchens and bedrooms etc. aren't going to cut it.) And maybe try something with custom menus and so on? But I keep asking myself - why? Why should I bother?

Don't get me wrong. I'm enough of a writer I want to see this completed in some form, the lure of being able to say "Look what I did!" is kind of a hook even if it's just me and I know I can do it - I'm really not looking for strangers to pat me on the back and tell me how special I am (well, maybe just a bit). It's more I'd like to know - if I asked what good will this do me, getting this silly little project to any kind of finished state, what would you say? (Assuming you'd say something.) Would anyone want to look at it? Would it be any use to show people, to have some other way of saying "Sure, I can write. Look at what I put together"? If I asked for someone else to give up their time to work on it is there any chance someone would look and say "Well, I think this guy can write, and clearly he knows how to get something finished, so..." Does that kind of thing actually happen here?

I'm just honestly curious, if I'm only good at one thing, and I wanted to try using that talent (such as it is) in this way, would people tell me to keep going, to give it a shot - or just to give up now? Does that make sense? Hope so. (If you actually read this far and it doesn't, then, uh, sincere apologies, I guess.)

[MaiMai]

If you're only confident in your writing and everything else is daunting (music, programming, art etc.) then one of the things people do here is go to the Recruitment and Services forum to pitch their idea and look for others who could fill in those spots. You get a better chance of getting others to help if your story is actually finished.

Don't get me wrong. I'm enough of a writer I want to see this completed in some form, the lure of being able to say "Look what I did!" is kind of a hook even if it's just me and I know I can do it - I'm really not looking for strangers to pat me on the back and tell me how special I am (well, maybe just a bit). It's more I'd like to know - if I asked what good will this do me, getting this silly little project to any kind of finished state, what would you say? (Assuming you'd say something.) Would anyone want to look at it? Would it be any use to show people, to have some other way of saying "Sure, I can write. Look at what I put together"? If I asked for someone else to give up their time to work on it is there any chance someone would look and say "Well, I think this guy can write, and clearly he knows how to get something finished, so..." Does that kind of thing actually happen here?

I'm just honestly curious, if I'm only good at one thing, and I wanted to try using that talent (such as it is) in this way, would people tell me to keep going, to give it a shot - or just to give up now? Does that make sense? Hope so. (If you actually read this far and it doesn't, then, uh, sincere apologies, I guess.)

Honestly, there's a number of factors into what will get people to respond to what you made. You're going to have to accept the fact that some people will just not be interested whatsoever in what you've produced. And that's fine.

And the only way to answer those questions you have is to get something done. We don't know what your story is about. We don't have any semblance of an idea of what your skill level is. We don't see anything so all those hypothetical questions you have are more difficult answer.

[sasquatchii]

Go for it.
No, seriously, what do you have to lose? Everyone has to start somewhere, and even people who create commercial VN's were beginners once. The only way to get better at something is to actively work at it, finish something (even if it's not perfect) and then step back, examine it objectively, and figure out how you can improve the next time.

As you said, there are tons of free resources out there. You've got a world of free music, sound effects, and graphics at your fingertips. Another option would be to try to find an artist on here to collaborate with, free or paid. A lot of artists on here do commissions that are very affordable.

As for the reason why, it differs for everyone. I haven't completed a visual novel before but I've been working on one for about 2 months on and off. I'm not the best artist or writer, but I have a story that is important to me that I really want to tell. It helps that I love visual novels and am inspired all the time by them. Also, working on a project you're excited about is really fun.

[Eight Rooks]

Honestly, there's a number of factors into what will get people to respond to what you made. You're going to have to accept the fact that some people will just not be interested whatsoever in what you've produced. And that's fine.

Don't worry, it wasn't meant as a "How can I make people like me?" post.

And the only way to answer those questions you have is to get something done. We don't know what your story is about. We don't have any semblance of an idea of what your skill level is. We don't see anything so all those hypothetical questions you have are more difficult answer.

Yeah, I guess it probably does come across as annoyingly vague without anything to back it up. Sorry! But do people actually post about things they're working on here when all they have is text? I have lurked in the work-in-progress forum a little, but I didn't see any projects like that. When I say I'd use placeholder art, I mean placeholder, just something to stare at so there's more than just words - not anything I'd use to get people thinking "Wow, this sounds amazing!".

[Rozume]

But do people actually post about things they're working on here when all they have is text? I have lurked in the work-in-progress forum a little, but I didn't see any projects like that. When I say I'd use placeholder art, I mean placeholder, just something to stare at so there's more than just words - not anything I'd use to get people thinking "Wow, this sounds amazing!".

Yeah, they do. I've seen it before and I've done it myself.

Why should I bother?

You don't have to make a VN. No one's forcing you too. But if you want to make a VN, then do it because you want to.

Don't get me wrong. I'm enough of a writer I want to see this completed in some form, the lure of being able to say "Look what I did!" is kind of a hook even if it's just me and I know I can do it - I'm really not looking for strangers to pat me on the back and tell me how special I am (well, maybe just a bit). It's more I'd like to know - if I asked what good will this do me, getting this silly little project to any kind of finished state, what would you say? (Assuming you'd say something.) Would anyone want to look at it? Would it be any use to show people, to have some other way of saying "Sure, I can write. Look at what I put together"? If I asked for someone else to give up their time to work on it is there any chance someone would look and say "Well, I think this guy can write, and clearly he knows how to get something finished, so..." Does that kind of thing actually happen here?

It sounds to me like you're over thinking things a bit. If you got a project finished, then you can say that you got a project finished (something few people can boast about). Now, very few people might look at your project but I can assure you someone will.

I can't speak for everyone, but if I know that someone can see through a project then I want to work with them.

[Eight Rooks]

It sounds to me like you're over thinking things a bit.

Probably. I do that sometimes. But your response is still helpful, so thank you. It's much appreciated.

I'll put a post together as a pitch or what have you and see how it goes. Like I said, I have done some work already, but maybe I'd be better off in the Ideas sub-forum? At least for now.

[SundownKid]

Would anyone want to look at it? Well, it really depends what you're going for? You have to know your target audience. Are you trying to make something artistic, or just enjoyable? Then you have to consider if the writing and art is good enough to get people's attention and whether you are willing to work towards making it good enough. And finally you have to market it to that audience to get a following and recognition, which rewards you with the satisfaction of sharing your ideas.

You can always write the VN and try to find someone interested in doing the art for free as a collaboration. It will be harder than if you could pay people but it's certainly possible if the whole thing is laid out and finished.

[Lesleigh63]

I've done short story writing in the past and sent any I thought were good enough to literary magazines to see if any would get accepted for publication (it was a long time ago but I assume those type of magazines are still around - web based mags were just coming out at that stage and in competition with the hard print mags). So you could try that angle if it's just the writing you're interested in and not making a VN. I was also a member of an on-line writing group where we critiqued each others work and also ran small competitions to keep us writing - so you could search the web and join a group to get the feedback and writers company you'd like.

However, if the VN format is what really excites you, then give it a go. You can ask for an artist to join you or try using free-to-use art assets to create something. Whether people will actually play it - hard to say. I expect most released games will get at least a couple of people downloading and playing if it's free, but the more professional your game looks - the more will try it I expect.

[nebulaway]

honestly, i'm in the same boat as you're in. i'm making a visual novel with mostly text, sounds and music; but i'm see visual novel (as well as other game making programs) as a new way to tell stories because i really want to share my stories with the world - but these are stories i've always carried with me and i'm not really doing it to please anyone else.

i see visual novels and other types of games as a new medium of story-telling; but while my writing is important, i want people who are playing the game or reading the visual novel to actually look good as well.

my first visual novel, i'm hoping to be, will have more focus on the story as well as the music chosen to get the reader into it but... it's really up to you.

[Kate]

I was in this boat. I just dabbled with my first project, being a writer and not a natural programmer- but after working on my first project (yes, google search images as placeholder art, didn't even get original sprites made for the characters, used freebies I found around) and sounds from free sound.org instead of music loops (Although i still recommend that site for sounds/music)....I found out that I liked it enough to seriously work at it. Granted, I'm still in the novice ranks with functions and all, but a little willpower and elbow grease and lost sleep can go a very long way.

It feels pretty good to have a fun little game to play. If your story is begging you to be told, and shared, and it seems to come naturally for a visual novel or game medium, definitely try it! Like others have commented, there's nothing to lose.

Plus, it's an indulgence for writers to have options/choices for the player/reader. Now you don't have to make a tough decision between two great scenes based upon one moment in the plot. You can use lots of alternate ideas here and there and feel good about it.

[sasquatchii]

Plus, it's an indulgence for writers to have options/choices for the player/reader. Now you don't have to make a tough decision between two great scenes based upon one moment in the plot. You can use lots of alternate ideas here and there and feel good about it.

Well said! I think that is one of the best things about visual novels. Sometimes when I'm reading a really great story that is totally immersive, I finish the book and think, "well, what if this happened or this happened?" and VN's give the reader & writer to explore different scenarios and what ifs! Which I find to be fantastic because if the player really loves the story they can go back, spend more time with it, and see a completely different way that the story could have gone.

[Eight Rooks]

Plus, it's an indulgence for writers to have options/choices for the player/reader. Now you don't have to make a tough decision between two great scenes based upon one moment in the plot. You can use lots of alternate ideas here and there and feel good about it.

I think this is the kind of reply I was hoping for. Not to dismiss other people's advice! I appreciate anyone taking the time to respond, honestly. But yeah, "it's an indulgence" is actually a very good reason to do it, I think - or at least that writing a VN of some kind justifies indulging yourself. You wouldn't normally write X amount of alternate takes, or expect to see them used if you did, but if you've ever wondered how things would go...

Again, I wasn't happy with the ending when I first finished this, as it was that much darker than the other stories I'd done for this whole "project". But I didn't feel happy with the idea of throwing it out either. Planning out a way to keep it and do three others felt pretty gratifying.

I still don't really know what I'll ultimately do about any art, sound etc. (beyond sticking placeholder stuff in) but it's still progressing, bit by bit. (The thread is here.)

[Zootower]

Plus, it's an indulgence for writers to have options/choices for the player/reader. Now you don't have to make a tough decision between two great scenes based upon one moment in the plot. You can use lots of alternate ideas here and there and feel good about it.

I think this is the kind of reply I was hoping for. Not to dismiss other people's advice! I appreciate anyone taking the time to respond, honestly. But yeah, "it's an indulgence" is actually a very good reason to do it, I think - or at least that writing a VN of some kind justifies indulging yourself. You wouldn't normally write X amount of alternate takes, or expect to see them used if you did, but if you've ever wondered how things would go...

Again, I wasn't happy with the ending when I first finished this, as it was that much darker than the other stories I'd done for this whole "project". But I didn't feel happy with the idea of throwing it out either. Planning out a way to keep it and do three others felt pretty gratifying.

I still don't really know what I'll ultimately do about any art, sound etc. (beyond sticking placeholder stuff in) but it's still progressing, bit by bit. (The thread is here.)

I do think there's a certain point that should be made here, and that the "indulgence" of choice is something that will indeed make a very important distinction of your work. At the risk of stating the obvious, interactivity is what separates a Kinetic Novel from the mainstream Visual Novel. That lack of choice shouldn't be ignored because of the way humans respond to storytelling, and that the viewing of a work changes. It's less of an emphasis of "what decisions am I making for this character" and more, at least for me, an emphasis on "whether or not the writer is making competent decisions in the story itself". I'm more inclined to excuse certain narrative inefficiencies if its assumed that I'm going to be taking part, or given some form of interactivity.