Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in?

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trooper6
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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#16 Post by trooper6 »

Zootower wrote: Really, I think you're going to find that there's a certain level of street-smarts and early onset sexual knowledge in any urban area, anywhere in the Western World. If you're setting it in a rural area, you might be able to get away with a bit more naïveté. I always end up at looking at Atlus's Persona series for these sort of cues, especially 3&4. The city-slicker teens in Persona 3 make a sharp contrast to the rural attitudes of the teenagers in Persona 4. Speech patterns, textual diction, and even voice acting go a long way towards highlighting those essential differences.
On the other hand, teen pregnancy rates are through the roof in rural areas, as is meth usage. In rural areas people have time on their hands and not a lot to do. Check out the now-cancelled reality show "Buckwild" which was full of rural folks engaging in risky behavior.

Even Japan isn't full of innocent people. If you look at something like "Lost in Translation" rather than anime, you have depictions of Japanese teens partying, drinking and as least wanting to have sex.

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#17 Post by Tatty »

Otome game in Denmark? Sold. I especially liked Holmenskirke(?) but more seriously...

I wouldn't necessarily tell anyone to 'write what they know'. I generally prefer to write weird fiction, and though it can be influenced by stuff I know, people themselves are - as trooper6 mentions - fairly bog-standard wherever you go. Individuals can be pretty interesting though, or so I do hear tell! What I would say, however is - the great lore and mythology and culture of all places is a powerful, beautiful thing. It's unfortunately used for ill-purpose a lot of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel it can be used to create a very powerful force for storytelling.

*Especially* when used with something a writer is familiar with. A lot of my coworkers are more interested in 'epic' stories, for example. However - using something as simple as a few people growing old together, failing to find love and changed by disputes or rekindled friendships - it may not be an 'epic' story, but it is just as worthy for telling, if not more so.

If you've got a burning desire in you, the seeds of a story that want to take root, go for it! I know I'll definitely put on my increasing backlog of wonderful VN to read, and root for you a hundred percent!

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#18 Post by MomoiroGirl »

@trooper6, @SinSisters: Oh don't get me wrong, know that in the US A LOT of young teens go around drinking and having sex, what I mean is that in that place it is considered legally WORNG, while in Denmark, no one really cares if 15 year-olds are running around doing that, parents are usually just like "Be safe sweetie! See you!" And they come home drunk as hell, maybe throw up a bit in the toilet in the monring, annd it will be regarded as something as simple as having a stomach ache (unless they seem to have alcohol poisoning of course). So I just thought that maybe players/readers might feel uncomfortable reading about something that is generally considered bad/illegal in their country (thinking generally the US here), that is completely acceptable and legal in Denmark.

I was actually the opposite of this in high school, I didn't start drinking alcohol until I was almost 19 in Denmark, which is kinda like someone not drinking in the US until they're 25-26-ish :P And I'm still a virgin even today (and the only virgin I currently know in fact) But I was also the only one in the whole school in the years I was there, who didn't drink at all, and never had. I was actually kind of known as the girl who looked like Lady GaGa/Barbie who was very religious and didn't drink an wanted to stay a virgin until marriage (now I'm agnostic, and drink, but I'm still at least saving myself for someone I really love), but yeah, if you didn't drink, it would be very much pointed out and noticed.

But yeah, I agree that I'm being too judgementa on Denmark ^^'' I actually got to like the idea of making the VN take place in Denmark after a lot of thinking and brainstorming, so i think that's what I'll end up doing now :D Thank you for your response!


@Zootower: Oh yes, the Danes themselves are pretty liberal people, I just meant (as stated in the above answer) that I was more thinking about how people from other countries, where it is actually illegal, but still happens, might react to a place where this is so normal, it's practically a big part of our culture AND completely legal and okay with everyone ^^''. And I actually haven't seen that much difference in people coming from the big city compared to out on the country (where I live). The only difference is the last thing you mentioned, such as accent, speech-patterns and also certain social rules (probably because a lot of people know each other in the country, and are therefore more relaxed towards how we talk to each other etc. etc.).


@trooper6: Oh yes, sexual drive has next to nothing to do with how you act on it. I think that japanese people have the same sex-drive as any other person might, they just react to it differently. But I've honestly only seen 1 pregnancy in my high school time at least 1 pregnancy that turned into a birth rather than adoption), people are pretty good at using protection etc. here as far as what I've seen. We keep getting hit on our head every year about the government complaining we're not producing enough children every year :P


@Tatty: Yeah, I think I was leaning away from writing about denmark, since to me it seemed kind of like: something familiar = boring. But I kinda changed my mind now, and instead thought of how this could be an opportunity to make other people experience something UNfamiliar :P Danish folklore is pretty outdated nowadays though, not even religion seems to interest many people anymore (unless you grew up in an actively religious household). Or at the very least we just don't have anything to do with norse mythology anymore.

Hahah, thank you, let's see what it ends up as! XD


-------------------------------

I actually have another idea for a second VN, which also draws some inspiration from Denmark! Now, I don't know if this is common/how common it is other places than Scandinavia, but usually at christmas time, people will buy these sort of "countdown-christmas/advent calendars", and you can for example buy a chocolate version (example pictured here: http://ninja4ever.files.wordpress.com/2 ... er-070.jpg ), and from the 1st of Deceember until the 24th of December every day you open a new window and get a piece you chocolate. And every year in Denmark, we also have "TV advent calendars", usually about Santa Claus and his elves (or as Danes say, "nisser", they're a very specific kind of elves, almost always portrayed wearing red and a Santa hat, in Danish called "nissehue", and being a mischevious adventurous species). It's usually always family-friendly, targeted towards kids and about saving the world/christmas.

And I've always thought how fun it could be if there was like a (otome?)VN that functioned as an advent calendar the same way those TV-calendars work, where it would portray a christmas story, and each day there was a new episode that came out ready to play. I don't know how this concept seems to others, as I'm pretty sure these kinds of advent calendars are only common in Scandinavia, but if anyone has thoughts on this idea (positive or negative), place do leave a comment!

Again, thanks for all your answers! Please excuse any typos etc.~ :D

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#19 Post by Tatty »

MomoiroGirl, that's the spirit! : D My biggest influence in pretty much everything I create is slavic folklore; even then it's not always consistent (because I'm quite driven in far too many directions, pahaha), but I tend to incorporate it into a lot of stuff. I can say for a fact that one of the reasons people aren't interested in various topics is often just that - a lack of experience with them. If you feel interest coming on with a topic - well, that's genuinely a sure-fire way to make sure that at the very least you'll enjoy writing it. And again - from my experience, that people will enjoy reading it. : )

So - An advent calendar VN could be really fun! Would you plan to set it to an internal clock, with stories + previous stories being available on different days, or maybe choose to have it just themed around christmas? Either way, I think it could be really fun. You could have a mixture of stories, too - light-hearted fables, stories about giving, or sorrow and loss, or making the best of hard times... And of course, if these nisser arrive and then save the day, you could have a very sweet feel to the whole project. I suppose it would depend on how much effort you want to put into each day of the calendar, and what you want the final product to feel like?

Also - perhaps the CG gallery could be of festive things, or recipes..? I'm afraid I'm not an ace chocalitier, but I'm sure amongst the VN crafters here, everyone has holiday recipes they could share - you might even be able to keep them christmas & chocolate-y themed to complete the image! : D

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#20 Post by MomoiroGirl »

@Tatty: Well, I had imagined that it could be set up like the TV advent calendars, meaning that's it's one whole story told in day-to-day episodes, meaning that the first episode is the 1st of December, and then you see how the VN's story plays out (which would take place on the first of December there as well), and then the episode ends when the day ends (in this case though, of course the episodes could be replayed when wished, only you'd have to wait until the next day for the next episode to be available ^^). Then the next day a new episode comes out which takes place on the 2nd of December, and you see how the story continues playing out on that day, and then you continue all the way up until the 24th, where the story's climax will have been reached and resolved, and things are wrapped up with the celebration of Christmas Eve, and then it's kinda like "And they lived happily ever after", if that makes sense :P

So it's basically one story that is just played out as a series that has a new episode every day, until christmas, which then wraps everything up as a christmas episode :D

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#21 Post by Tatty »

@MomoiroGirl: That sounds fantastic! I think the idea of limiting the player should be handled carefully. On the one hand - I love how it was used in Hate+. On the other hand... I'm a quick reader, and although I'm glacially patient in most things, my true love is the written word, and I tend to have a bad habit of ending up wanting to steamroll ahead. : P Anyway, on to how it could be used for a VN/KN, I think that the episodic nature would work really well! (And yes, it makes perfect sense!)

It's just a matter of figuring out what overarching story you went to tell, and how to divide it up into the right number of episodes. Bonus points if its actually realized on a christmas day!*

*If it weren't tied to the Danish-style advent calendars you could even have it be on the 6th!

Anyway, I'm not sure what else to suggest - art-wise, I think a really colourful and vibrant palette would suit a game like this well; something that suggests warm tea and winter and good memories. I'm half-nostalgic without even having played it, aha!

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#22 Post by MomoiroGirl »

@Tatty: Well, the story itself is still not come up with yet, but it should have at least something to do with Christmas or some of the themes generally used in advent calendars. I think that the calendar should probably also set in Denmark and using Danish culture to portray christmas etc. And I know christmas is celebrated differently everywhere, which is why I thought I might as well use what I know a lot about, and maybe it would also be fun for people to see what a Danish Christmas is like. That would mean 24 episodes, running from the 1st of December to the 24th of December (and yes, if I do make this VN, it is also supposed to come out on those dates, otherwise it'd lose the point of working as an advent calendar :P)

So yes, takes place from 1st - 24th of December, and also becomes available through those dates :D It wouldn't be out before at least next year though of course, since I've never written a finished story before, and I've never done programming before either, and am not quite sure how to do the whole episodic rellease thing, if it's supposed to be a VN where your choices alters the ending (even more so if it's going to be an otome game @__@), so I have no idea if I'll even be able to make my first idea work, but there's only one way to find out! :P

Yes! Vibrance and sparkles everywhere! XD Lots of reds certainly, and Denmark has a lot of fun types of decorations used for Christmas, and a lot of people like spending the days up to Christmas on making decorations :P That description of Christmas sounds veeery familiar up here too -u- It's a feeling/activity we call "hygge", pretty much what Christmas revolves around here hahahah XD Right now though, my main focus is trying to figure out how to build up a solid story out of these small ideas I have for the first VN I asked about, so if anyone has any suggestions on how to do this, please do speak up!

(Again, please excuse weird typos, my eyes are drying up from being tired XD)

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#23 Post by Tatty »

My advice is to take twice as long as you'll think you'll need as a minimum. That way, if you find yourself with more periods of free time then you expect, you'll get things done earlier and can feel quite satisfied; and if not, no worries. My other piece of advice would never to be pressured to meet a deadline, self-imposed or otherwise. One of the downsides about sharing a project is that people get excited - which is good! - but then feel a sense of stake in a project which, at the end of the day, is usually driven by the development team - and that's usually one, maybe two people in the development of a VN.

The other thing I'd highly recommend is limiting how much time you spend on the project. Very few people can pay the bills with these projects, even/especially if they go commercial, and speaking personally and solely for myself, money robs me of all incentive to do anything. I'd much rather drone away in my boring normal job and then 'relax' by combing through bug errors and adjusting text, then suddenly feel social and economic pressure to release a product - rather then a labour of love. : P

Technicalities aside, let's talk progress. I think that each episode could be fairly short - 5,000/15,000 words, adjusting to an amount you feel comfortable with. Here are some *very* rough ideas for how you could adjust the overall ending/path; I'm going to list two that would be fairly easy to implement, with multiple ways of going about them (this is true of almost everything in Ren'Py and python as a whole, but for a first novel, why make things too complicated? After all, if you learn rapidly and have a brilliant brainstorm, there is *nothing* stopping you from rewriting code and making a more eloquent solution! : D )

[*]Variables of affection for whatever gentleman callers/friendships/etc might be present, with whichever is highest at the 'pen-ultimate' episode being the 'chosen' route. This is fairly easy to do, and means you can focus largely on dialogue and just add a few instances - choices, probably - that increase the variables in question.
[*]Choice-mazes, where each label jumped to enacts another label determines which episode 'unlocks'. You could even have different advent calendar backgrounds (if I'm right in assuming that the Danish-style advent calendars have different surroundings via the little windows?) showing you which path you're currently on!

So - ideas, hrmn. Here's what I'd suggest JUST off the top of my head. I think the idea of having a 'lightly' supernatural story is a good root. Perhaps something is happening in the community (I'm imagining the backdrop of the game taking place in either not!Kobenhavn, or a somewhat-rural town/city, maybe with about 20-40k people..? What do you prefer writing about more? Something else..) looks like it's going to put a damper on the winter celebrations, and the protaganist is going to have to step into save it - with the help and hijinks of nisser, and the core cast, of course!

If each 'episode' = a day, perhaps each day could have something representing the 'hygge' - lovely word, by the by - and tasks for setting a proper christmas. Acquiring a tree - do you want to take one home, or decorate the woodlands, or..? - or preparing a baked good, or meeting with friends, or so on and so forth. The protaganist has relatives who don't want to visit or live too far away, or have medical issues - little wriggles that hint at a deeper world beyond the story but are resolved in just the right way to impart a feeling of winter wonder and magic without being cheesy. This itself is a hard line to walk, but I find reading and re-reading your own dialogue always helps identify the tone and find what you like and what works.

That asks the first questions - what do you want your cast to look like? How static/dynamic do you want them to be (are they kind of tied into the setting, or will you hint at lives and activities outside the VN to establish character traits)? What should the setting feel and look like, and do you want to have a large tertiary cast, or only a few people outside of the core cast? Come the weekend, I would be glad to shoot some more complex ideas around - though I'll definitely say a good task to do as a self-interest check is to write a 500-word bla and try turning it into a simple, no-graphics no-frills KN in Ren'Py. You can ask yourself - do I prefer to write and code directly into the script file, write separately and transfer it into the script by hand, going over it and re-coding (this is what I like to do as it forces me to re-read stuff I've written before), something else..?

Finally, bah, spelling and grammar! No worries about them, I'm sure I've made plenty of mistakes myself. : ) And most importantly - it's good to see excitement in works like these. As someone who writes only for themselves, my most oft-repeated rule of advice is - try. The worst that can happen is that it doesn't click, and even that is not a permanent state - there is nothing to say what feels stressful or imperfect one day won't suddenly work all the better the next! I'd be glad to give you more in-depth advice later if needed, though I find the best thing to do is to just dive right in and start fiddling around with things!

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#24 Post by MomoiroGirl »

@Tatty: Well, for the possible advent calendar VN I won't think too much about it right now, right now my focus will be on the first VN idea, so I can test the waters of VN creation and such. I won't be thinking too much about how the advent calendar VN should work until I've got at least a plot idea, and I think that come Christmas I might get some ideas while surrounded by the Christmas cheer and spirit :D But yea, they should be fairly short, as there'd be 24 episodes all in all, and they're supposed to be able to be played/read in one day, so they're ready to read the next day's episode. I'm definitely using this thread as refference though, thank you very much for typing all this information! I've already made a note for the Christmas VN with refferences from here, so I'll save that for Christmas time for now :D

-------

So right now it's gonna be the "realistic-take-on-relationships-taking-place-in-Denmark otome VN" XD As I said, if you or anyone else here has any advice on how to flesh out a complete plot, if all you have right now is a few concept ideas, it's non-fantasy, female protagonist and I'm thinking probbly 3, maybe 4 males to pursue. As I've said, I want it to be a bit more of a realistic portrayal of how relationships evolve and come to be etc., but still have some comedy (if I know how to write comedy''). I'm thinking to have it take place in fall, cause I'm all about fall fashion lol XD Sillyness aside, I'm not quite sure how to lay out a (silver lining?) Not sure what to cal it, but something that sort of ties the whole game together, so it does seem connected somewhat no matter which route you choose (though I do want the routes to be unique). o please please do throw out some advice if you have any, on how to get ideas andmake them come together! :D

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#25 Post by Tatty »

Apologies if I'm monopolizing the responses - I shall withdraw for a bit as I prime for weekend work of my own, but since you're focusing on a normal VN to test the waters first, mind if I throw out just a few more ideas?

Beautiful broken down elderly men, bam, novel done

Let me share my own creative process a bit, more seriously. What do you want the protaganist to be? Should she have a defined background, or be a (blah) self-insert? I have my own opinion on the latter, as you can imagine - but there *are* reasons to have a character like that, and even for one as ashen-hearted as myself there are examples that work well. Is she younger, middle-aged, older..? I'm going to guess a younger woman. Do you want to have her be in university or just out of university, perhaps? Did she inherit some sort of family business - again, the question about rural vs. urban is pretty important. Having a protagonist who feels constrained to take on, for example, the family brewing business in a dying island town is entirely different then a young girl excited to visit home after life in the big city, or someone who has been working for the state for several years in a metropolis, or so on and so forth.

As an example scenario, let's take our young woman returning home from university as a starting point. On the trip back home, she meets up with a peer from college who she's interacted with a little but hasn't really had a chance to. He turns out to be in town to visit old his family - who are friends with a family of 'regionally-famous' artists, perhaps including their single and young son? The hotel our hero and her acquaintance are staying at (perhaps; this could suggest a lot of things. Poor relation with her family? Not wanting to burden them..? A home that was recently condemned because of some kind of infestation?! xD ) is staffed by an attractive man who seems kind of worldly but sad; and finally, there's this stranger that she keeps running into...

You've got four dudes so far, but they're all very 'flat', as is our hero and her motivation. Tying them together is where the fun begins, however. A quick 'brace' of early-game choices that lock you into the beginnings of a route are a good way to mechanically separate routes that seem to individually be similar - and then suddenly unfold into their own story. Example - artist!guy goes to the hotel frequently. Why? It turns out he's been selling stuff his family makes to try to pay off a series of questionable loans, which coincidentally were instigated by the family of your main character's friend from university... And so on. Everyone relates to everyone in ways that are not originally easy to see. Maybe some paths are actually relationships that *end* by the end of the game - and that's one way you can tie it back to theme of the game?

But that's just one example. First off, a good place to start. What are three or four different types of guys you'll enjoy writing about? What's one protagonist who you'll be able to really get in the headspace of, whose dialogue or emotions you'll be able to make feel genuine; interesting for the player, silly or melancholic or fun as your whim? Does she have family? What's her situation, her income, things you might not ever even mention *in* the story, but that you can use to really get make her feel *alive*?

It's quite silly, but I often decide a bunch of very arbitrary interests my characters have long before I end up writing them. I find it makes them feel more realistic, more like living breathing people rather then cutouts; why, for example, does a certain character like sorbet? It relates back to the time his parents still lived together, and thus feels nostalgic and less threatening then the reality of the world as it is today. Finally - I listen to a lot of ambient and classical music when I need to think. Some people listen to ambient sounds, or have a band that clicks for them. Perhaps that may help?

When your characters (perhaps some good side characters too, even if they only have 1-3 lines!) are done, what ties them all together? Perhaps they're all looking for *something more*, and all feel trapped in imperfect relationships. Perhaps the overarching theme is learning to really see people for who they are, not who they seem to be. Perhaps instead, the theme is that relationships may change - but true friendships last, whether as relationships or something else. Or... And so on and so forth.

And finally, since autumn is the best season, I have full belief that your project'll be a success! xD Hope this helps!

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#26 Post by MomoiroGirl »

/totallynotlateansweristotallynotlate

@Tatty: Since I want to try to focus a lot on character-interaction on a less superficial level, I am going with a defined character for the MC, I'm not much for insert-self characters, it makes it harder to draw me in. I've copy-pasted from somewhere here a description I wrote for how I imagine the protagonist XD:

"I've been brainstorming the look of the main character, and so far I'm pretty sure that she's gonna have short, blonde hair, and I'm thinking her personality will be somewhat described as: "A realist, (and maybe cunning?) and is well-liked amongst her peers, friendly, outgoing, vibrant and perceived as attractive. I'm also thinking of adding the detail, that she has problems with intimacy." I put cunning in paranthesis because I'm not sure if I'm cunning enough myself to write a cunning character XDD

I'm thinking that the tone of the game should match the characteristics of the protagonist (obviously, as the story is told from her perspective XD), it's supposed to take place during high school (which in Denmark is like grades 10-12, kinda like in Japan), and I'll probably set in in a fictional town that is somewhat rural, as I've never lived in a big city in Denmark. i kinda want to set it up as a typical high-school otome, only from a different perspective and a different setting than what players might be used to (though not overly different, it's still a first world country afterall).

I definitely am aiming to have an somewhat important inclusion of side characters, thinking of having maybe one specific side character (maybe of her close friends) tied to each specific possible guy as a part of the route. I've been thinking of having one guy friend who is/turns out to be gay, which becomes involved in one certain route, and maybe her closest girlfriend being addicted to drugs which becomes important in another guy's route etc., but those details are not figured out yet. But the thing I'm mostly clueless about right now is what the protagonist's story is gonna be. I'm not sure I wanna go the broken-home route, but so far it's all I can come up with. So lately I've mostly been spending my time trying to find out how to tie up her story, and how it would change depending on the guy' routes. But I'm thinking that I'll wait with fleshing out the guys until I've fleshed out the protagonist.

I contemplated trying to take somewhat stereotypical otome game types and tear them apart a bit, or like have themm develop through the story in a different way than usual, or just try to make guy characters that may reflect typical Danish guys (although I can't say much about that, since I'm not really on the same mental level regarding dating as most Danish guys), or maybe just simply go with a theme of "making them as realistic as possible, and not worry at all about making them into specific "dating" types other than how they act.

Hahahah, thank you! XD Yea, can't wait for fall to really kick in! :P Yea, first up is fleshing out the main character's story, as that is probably the main key to fleshing out a proper story. Thank you so much for all your feedback! I'm hoping that I'll be able to get this project standing, I'll probably have to test out programming a bit before writing the whole story out though, if I do ever get there. Fingers crossed! :D

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#27 Post by TrickWithAKnife »

"A VN set in the US" <- Hmm... OK. I'm down with that.

"A VN set in Denmark" <- This sounds interesting. I don't know much about Denmark, but it's cool to experience another culture vicariously.

"A VN set in Japan" <- Ugh. Another one. Even if it is one of the rare cases where the writer doesn't make countless mistakes, it's been done to death.
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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#28 Post by MomoiroGirl »

@TrickWithAKnife: Yea, Japan is pretty overdone, and it would probably be pretty easy to start writing stereotypes by setting it in a stereotypical setting (or at least so I imagine). So I've decided that it would be more different just by the setting by having it take place in Denmark :P

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#29 Post by 2dt »

To expand on what Mad Harlequin said, placing the VN in an exciting location doesn't automatically make it better. If you feel like doing Denmark, do Denmark. If you feel like doing it elsewhere, do so. Wherever you choose, do thorough research on it if you're not familiar with it.

I would love to read a story based in Denmark. This could also be an opportunity for you to dispel a lot of myths about Danish living.

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Re: Which country do you prefer otome games to take place in

#30 Post by MomoiroGirl »

@2dt: I have to say I'm not quite sure what the myths about Danes are, and the ones I do know of such as drinking our brains out and Danes not really accomplishing much internationally are actually true hahahah XD Exactly how much will actually be representative of the typical Dane I don't know yet, that would depend on how censored I might make it, and what mood the VN should have. So it might either be a possible representation, or a more spun version of it ^^''

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