General Questions/Thoughts Thread

[Tatty]

Good time, all.

So - Having been battling the usual bouts of autumnal melancholy that come to me with my favorite season, I turned to the old comfort of visual novels - to find several I've quite enjoyed and looked forward to released. Not only was this a pretty good comfort to me, it helped me realize what was getting me down and solve an age-old question; I've always wanted to a kind of Shin Megami Tensei/Megaten fan-game, and I finally knew what I wanted to do with it, where to set it, etc.

Because I write nightmarishly fast when I'm in the right mood, I've got a lot of the plot written up - though conversations and path-choices are going to be a pain, for those that know the series and it's negotiation system. Instead - I'd like to ask a few of the old hands here about some of the choices I've made, and ask if you have any suggestions on how to do things differently, perhaps better. I'll be highlighting the various questions I have, and am placing them here as I feel they are probably more helpful to a general audience then a game-project thread. Nevertheless, the short n' sweet version of the game is

Name: Buyan
Setting: A nation torn between two (or more) warring factions that the player, an operative from a NGO has been sent to observe. Things get worse when demons are involved.
Reason: I wanted to have a game that discussed some pretty heavy political themes that I have trouble explaining to many of my friends, while still being a fun game. My goal is not to portray any side of any real conflict as 'glorious' or 'good' - but instead cast some light on what, exactly, might drive them... And then completely change tack when demons are involved, because it is, in the end, a game.

Art and Music: I was originally going to try to find composers willing to work for free, because I don't want to involve money in the project in any way; working on this in my free time keeps it from being 'a job' since the author is an old goat. But the first question I have is - Is it too immersion breaking to have art and music be from the old public domain?

Here's what I have as an example - demons you encounter will not be represented by the loving pixel art of Kazuma Kaneko, digitized to 1.5 frames of oddly charming animation, but classical depictions of those demons. I'm still not sure what to do for human opponents.

As for music, my goal has been to take music that has been traditionally used to evoke feeling of nationalism, patriotism, internationalism, and militarism and blend them together to create an overwhelming and gloomy atmosphere. I am mostly using classical music from the romantic period, focusing on different 'styles' of music for the three different main 'paths' of the game. There is significant overlap in 'contested' areas, and I have/am trying to meld together, folk, military band music, pop, etc together into very discordant stuff for battle themes and ambient sound that loops distantly in the background. I am working all but exclusively with music from the 'Slavosphere' for lack of a better term.

Would you suggest that being too 'distracting'? Is folk or classical music automatically a 'turn-off' for end-users? I guess I'm asking, with your own experiences with players, do you think any of the above would lead to people discarding the VN off-handedly?

Plot: As you can probably imagine, there's a lot I want to discuss. I never want the game to *feel* too serious, nor tie it *too* directly to a specific current conflict. That being said, it is a serious topic and I very much want to show that in the end, even if 'demons' were to be removed, there are very people, if anyone, who benefits. That being said, the author is a horrible hack who feels that she can successfully meld some elements of comedy and (of course) romance into things, because if you can't look at the world and find romance, what's the point..? Would you - personally - be less likely to play knowing that the game won't be 100% serious 100% of the time?

Systems: I'm currently experimenting with a battle and party system VERY similar to the old Might and Magic/Wizardry games, but specifically the M&M of my youth, M&M II. That is to say that you will see maybe one 'sprite' per enemy, but there may be tens, even hundreds of some in the latter game. I'm trying to keep it streamlined enough that there isn't quite the ridiculous key-strain of that game, though... ; ) For those in the know, however - would you be inclined to go for something more modern? Have player reactions to that kind of Dungeon Crawler been good, poor, mediocre..?

Mapping: Similarly, the map is very similar to the old SNES Megaten. An 'overworld' which I'm debating permitting cardinal-direction movement across, or possibly just with a list of 'map' areas which are 2D-'Dungeons'. Many are not interior, however, but environments out doors, at different times of the day, etc; designed to convey the vastness of the area of the game. Similarly, how do people react to this kind of mapping?

Other unassorted questions: There's a lot I've been mulling over, and I just wouldn't mind some feedback on; whatever comes to mind, really. I'm thinking the game will be 10-20 hours per playthrough, easily two hours less if you're familiar with these kinds of games, and even less if you're one of the horrible human beings who doesn't read text. (You monster.) That doesn't include two separate paths, ending differences for character, and of course a bevy of bad ends.

Bad ends?: Yes. Really bad ends.

How bad are we talking?: Really bad.

Moving right along, this inspired me, self what if..?: If you've read this and had a really great idea for your own work, as per standard, take anything and go wild with it. That being said - I'd really appreciate ideas, especially on the technical matters. I don't need too much help with coding - I'm decent enough and used to stumbling things through on my own (and am somewhat of an autocrat, so, kind of prefer that. Sorry!), but I won't turn it down - though what I'd really love is suggestions on what you feel would just be better, or more enjoyable for the players over all.

Feel free to ask about details sundry or exotic if you'd like. I'm a slow responder, but that doesn't mean I don't see your reply and appreciate it!

Thanks, and may your day be well.

[trooper6]

I have no connection to Japanese VNs so anything I say will not be using them as a touchstone.

Regarding Public Domain Art...no opinion.
Regarding Public Domain Music. Lots of films use classical music all the time. But classical music is a) not a monolith and b) carries with it certain societal significations. If you do all early Renaissance music or Gregorian Chant or Romantic French Impressionist piano sketches...it will all read differently. I'd say using classical music if fine, if it is done deliberately and with care. Basically, don't pick classical music only because it is in the public domain and so you can get it for free. Pick specific classical pieces because they are part of your artistic vision for this moment in the game. It you see the difference.

Also note, while the pieces themselves are often in the public domain, individual recordings of those pieces are often not. So be careful on that front. Same with folk music. The songs may not be under copyright, but specific recordings or arrangements might be.

Plot: About 100% serious 100% of the time. First, I don't think of the presence of romance as a thing that would take something out of the realm of seriousness. Romeo & Juliet had romance and that was a serious play. Indeed it also had some comic relief. In the end, for me, it would depend on how well it is done and of what sort. For example, I hate the comic relief "little sister/brother" type that often shows up in anime. If I'm reading a generally serious NV and that person shows up...I'm probably going to stop playing that VN. Because I hate that. But if you do your hybrid well? Then awesome.

Systems: I've never played the old M&MII...so no opinion...which means I'll certainly try out whatever you do.
Mapping: I've never played Metagen...so no opinion...which means I'll certainly try out whatever you do.
In the end, if you do it well, I'll respond positively.

Bad Ending: If the bad endings are done well and feel like the logical consequences for my actions rather than some sort of weird punishment? Then awesome.

[Tatty]

Trooper6,

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of response I was looking for! Do you mind if I clarify some things/ask for a bit more information? To give you more background information, I'm fairly disconnected from the JVN and OELVN scenes myself. I read a lot of both, but have a rather distinctive writing style - a very dear friend of mine once described it as 'syrupy'. I think it sums up the challenges and positives of said writing style very well, specifically in relation to one point you raised.

Music: I should have been much clearer here, and will clear the question above up. For classical music, I'm using at earliest Romantic-era music. Certain 'routes' in the game are associated with stronger motifs and scores. In specific, I wanted to showcase the folk nationalism of composers like Borodin via the modern nationalism of consumption-pop. The list I chose was purposeful, not simply because it's classical and public domain; like you, I feel that if something doesn't fit the 'vision' of a thing, it must be discarded or revued until it can. As for sampling, if you've ever listened to the soundtrack for a personal favorite of mine, Drakengard (I), you'll probably know what I want the blended stuff to feel like.

I'm actually a bit of a classical-junkie, however, and won't deny that I write fairly heavily 'under the influence' of Stravinsky. ; )

Plot: Ah, fantastic - I'm pretty glad to hear this. Since you haven't played Megaten (I'd highly recommend Strange Journey, if one can find time in this world of ours), try to think of a mixture of 'epic journies' - Journey to the Centre of the Earth, Lost Planet - complete with some of the sillier moments, and 'political fables'. Although my natural choice would be Alexsander Nevksy, I think the tone will be closer to 'Come and See', if you've ever seen that? Actually, why am I trying to just grab movies out of the air, here. Five seconds...

The tone of the plot will involve the main character having to deal with the moral ethical qualms of the modern world - reroute water and power to a village, putting it in the hands of power A, or let the village face disease and drought to secure it for power B? Be willing to wade through soldiers of both sides to get the water independently? This is compounded by the elements of the supernatural. You aid the village only to find that a powerful household spirit has taken over and established the land as it's 'fiefdom'. Comedy might arise from a spirit acting as if it is the 8th century in the modern world, or your companion, the cab-drivers dry observations as you navigate between map 'zones'. (I've settled on their being zones, I think.)

Interactions on the battlefield with both demons and humans alike can range the gamut from being silly to serious to confused. Not everyone wants to fight, of course, and some are just frightened or defending their own values - whatever those values may be. Decidedly silly elements I know I have are a certain individual who pursues you throughout the beginning of the campaign, either as an ally or a target. They are never truly a challenge, but promptly stop being silly after several events are set in motion... Several of the conversations with NPCs are very light-hearted.

When I mention romance etc, I've got several options for the player to pursue. You can choose the gender of your NGO at the beginning of the game, and have the option to flirt with several demons and humans alike - mostly it's a tactic to get them in your party (which can backfire spectacularly - offended demons may pay you to stop bothering them, or simply not understand your gestures and tone), but there's several paths that lead to genuine romances, some of which end in the course of the game, or can 'proceed' past the good 'endings' (the idea I'm going for being that good endings will lead to a world where the plot continues off-screen, if that makes any sense?)

Bad Ending: YES this is entirely what I want to go for! Some of them might not even be 'bad' for the player character. The player might feel as if they've failed, but that the price was acceptable, or that they secured their own fate - so kick the ladder down, as it were. What else, hrmn... I think that's it. More then anything, thanks again for the feedback. S'been good food for thought already!

[Lesleigh63]

Not sure how much help I'm going to be.

If I like the look of something from what I see in the 'completed games' section, I download it and give it a try. So what attracts me there would be the art and the synopsis. What will keep me playing is how well the story is handled.

If you're not sure how the audience may react, you could try a shorter project first and gauge the feedback - also try posting in the WIP section and see what the feedback in like.

[trooper6]

I said some of this in the PM, but I am really excited by your thought process with regards to the use of Borodin to comment on nationalism. I also really am excited by your interest in dealing with ethical qualms. Sounds awesome to me.

But in the end, I think you should do your game and go for your vision. If what you do is awesome, if will find an audience. How big an audience? I don't know. But Christine Love found a really sizable audience for Analogue: A Hate Story, and that is a queer feminist VN that is really about the medieval Korean Joseon dynasty set on a futuristic space ship. If you go by conventional wisdom (otome harem dating sims set in high school!) then the game shouldn't have been successful. But it is. So...I say, follow your artistic muse. People will come. I certainly will!

[Tatty]

Lesleigh - Thank you, and speaking of things that I like the look of, I'm downloading House of Dolls as we speak. : ) Any feedback helps - I do things regardless of what people tell me to do, or not do, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to try to make the things I do as enjoyable as possible to the people who might partake of them! Anyway - when I decide to do a project page, I will attempt to make it as descriptive and captivating as possible!

trooper6 - Thank you, again! I can assure you 100% that I'll be going for my vision - my hope is that it's a vision somewhat palatable to others, hah. And it's funny you should mention Christine Love, but I'll get into that later, as I'd prefer to keep this about the general questions (I have no idea what the rules re: rambling here are, and have a bad tendency to do just that.) Anyway, you'll find none less conventionally wise then I! Ahahahaha! Aha, wait -

I look forward to hearing your feedback on the project thread, and eventually the game itself. : )

[madomadomadotsuki]

I'm not as well-versed as many of those in the community who have experience with visual novels and their impressions, so I may not give as valuable or sound feedback as the others – but I would love to share my thoughts.

The Megaten series contains a lot of recurring elements between each game, especially the mothership ones – since you're a big fan of the series, I'm sure you are aware of them, but I'd like to elaborate on a few.

• The main-series games tend to relate to apocalyptic Tokyo.
• Demons run rampant, negotiations, fusions, etc.
• Choices made in game can veer the player into Lawful, Gaia, or neither in balance

I think your setting sounds wonderful, and the fact that the character is a worker for an NGO can create some really interesting themes extremely relevant to today. Despite the conflicts that go in the world, there's always people willing to help out and assist, but sometimes that can go utterly wrong too – for instance, there's the situation with the kidnapping of Alan Henning by ISIS, where he was a mere aid worker. This sort of stuff is still hitting home. I think opening the opportunity of giving the powers of demons to the two warring nations sound like a wonderful vehicle into human nature, which the Megaten series has been very good at showing, especially the ugly sides of things. I personally think Devil Survivor does a good job in how the power of demons and the tension of the apocalypse by being quarantined can expose people's worst sides and instincts for survival.

Something I see personally is that you may need to balance or consider the choices you make in decisions and paths. For instance, should you decide to follow the Megaten tradition of Lawful, Gaia, or neither, and if so, how should you integrate that so that you decide whether or not this path branch will lead to a general bad end or a hidden points counter for these factions? Don't forget that your project is presumably a visual novel with RPG elements for the most part, so not everything that's seen traditionally in the Megaten series may transition as smoothly into this medium. Do you want players to spend a significant amount of time crawling dungeons, grinding, etc. like in the main series games, or do you want players to spend a significant amount of time reading scenes, making choices in this fashion? Like, I think you'll definitely to find a balance between the visual novel aspects and the gameplay aspects. This probably won't be as much of a problem as it seems though, I guess, but I suppose a consideration in the back of your mind is better safe than sorry.

Since you said yourself that you're a classical music aficionado, then I'm sure you'll know which pieces can give that sense of oomph or particular atmosphere you want to strike for in your game or at a certain scene. After all, there's extensive analyses done on classical music much like a painting or piece of literature, so you'll definitely be able to know what would be stronger. But yes, be careful between recordings, which some of them may be copyrighted, and public domain works of pieces...

As for the atmosphere, I think if the game takes itself seriously and has a serious atmosphere the entire time, then it should be OK. I mean, the impression I get when playing Shin Megami Tensei, for instance, is a very mature and serious atmosphere. So long as whatever comedic quip, scene, message doesn't break the immersion or seem totally out-there, then that should be fine. I don't think you need to worry about this until you reach a revision point – I think you'll find where and where it won't be appropriate, anyway. Also, since it's your game and your project, you can give whatever atmosphere you have for the game. After all, Persona 3, personally, has a darker atmosphere than that of Persona 4, but there's definitely those anime-like lighter moments that don't break the overall image of the game. I suppose then just think, at least under the revision process, if, say, this scene compliments your overall vision well, and if it's against your vision's message, is it enough to break immersion in the game? If so, then you probably should revise it.

Hey, good luck on things! I love the series as well, so I wish you the best on this project. Are you considering to do monster fusions like in the main games? That sounds like a giant beast on its own, personally!

[Tatty]

Madomadomadotsuki - Fanfanfantastic username, haha! Well, trust me when I say that I value *all* feedback. I've actually been tooling up things for a proper game thread to avoid cluttering this one too much, but I can't help myself - I really wanted to reply to your comments here, regardless of the fact I'm bone-tired and likely going to ramble. Thank you for going through the bones of the series, btw - do you think I should perhaps put your notes up in the general thread? Eh, actually, scratch that - I'll post a synopsis of the game fundamentals in the game thread. Discussion-wise:

[*]Alignment is going to play a huge role in the game. I'm taking a broader and again more 'focused' view. A working title I had when I was jotting notes down before coming here was "Slav Megami Tensei" but for obvious reasons, I felt that might be a tad silly. ; ) Un
[*]Tokyo is therefore unimportant to me for the purpose of Buyan. My favorite game in the series is actually Strange Journey, despite it not being the 'mainline'. I love all of the games - but I feel taking the idea and looking through a reflection is pretty interesting in and of itself.
[*]~Demons~ and alignment re: the game specifically will be discussed later. Though the author would like to add that it is a flexible quantity, something that may - and likely will - shift throughout the game. For those unfamiliar with the games, or familiar and curious, I'm actually planning on having it be a 'Triskelion' of sorts, where the game checks to see your highest-compatible alignment, then your next-highest compatible, and then your third. These can effect the 'flavor' of your responses, and may allow me to do some other interesting things down the line. Ideally it'll at least make playthroughs more diverse.

Thank you for your high praise! My goal was to create a backstory for the main character that would allow for them to 1: Realistically fit into the backdrop of the game 2: Have some potentially shady, potentially grand allies of their past 3: Be an interesting backdrop to the more militarized/familiar to the conflict supporting cast and 4: Provide a lot of opportunity for things to go wonderfully, terribly wrong. Also 5: Though I'm familiar with the conflicts I'm basing all parties on, I realize not everyone will be and the great thing about an NGO is that I can 'feed' the player as much information as they need/want/require. "Oh, you didn't know about x..? Well of course not, since you're not from the area. But - " Is a lot more realistic when your character wouldn't know things, either.

Ugh, I really want to spoil things in regards to Order, Neutrality and Freedom - as the Law/Neutral/Chaos axis will be defined in Buyan - but again, don't want to get too ungeneralized here. What I can say is you raise very good points and I can answer one of them with a question/comment in response.

For my play style a LOT of what is going to be present is dialogue, because I love writing and because I feel that dialogue often conveys action better then battle. Battle I want to use both to create a feeling of urgency (or, conversely, you being much more powerful/weaker then an opponent) and as a means of player action. For those outside the know, though often Neutrality has an ending that could be said to be beneficial for humanity, this ending often comes at a very high human - and demon, and ideological - cost, rendering the question of whether it's worth it in the first place. CHOOSING to fight should be as much an option as choosing to negotiate or retreat - my hope is that I can balance these somewhat well, and I have a few ideas on as to how. : )

Actually, on the subject of dungeon-crawling/vs. visual novels, my current plans pending no better ideas is to have the 'dungeon's be primarily towns and safe zones, and for actual dungeons to be wide open terrain - the world maps of other games - that nevertheless make you easier prey, whether it's for desperate humans or hungry demons. And no, it's good! I want people to raise problems - though I'm very stubborn and attempt to be self-reliant, I have always found that having people raise points and free discussion is a good thing. Makes us all stronger, right? Wahah!

So far, I've only been using public-domain works - when I get around to sampling modern pieces, I've got a friend who records who has been giving me advice on how much to sample in order not to step on any toes, legal or otherwise. Another source that's public domain I found and excellent atmospheric are old speeches, radio addresses etc. I can't believe I hadn't thought of that before, but it's already given me more to play with.

Regarding atmosphere: I guess what I'm trying to gauge is, how dark do people like their visual-novellian coffee? I enjoy gore myself, but don't find it to ever be particularly 'dark' in and of itself. When I am aiming for darkness, I often find there are much more pressing and de-pressing (aha) things to include in tone and content. A character that the player feels particularly attached to turning out to betray them for some paltry reason hits much harder then random shock effects; this actually ties into my approach on bad ends and character design. I want to keep the player guessing. Are the people working with you your friends, allies, useful fools? Enemies with a common cause? Deeply horrible people who are the last, best hope? Etc. If multiple players can come out of the game with different opinions, that'll be pretty satisfying to me.

Anyway - thank you for all the excellent food for thought, and I'll close with a word on demon fusions! In Megaten games, you can usually fuse your demon allies into stronger demons; sometimes it makes mythological sense, other times it's just fun. ; )

In Buyan, this is not the case, since whatever heretical manors perfected such occult sciences don't litter the countryside. The rural demonologist - or desperate NGO looking for aid in troubled times - must turn to more... Atavistic measures (and in most cases, this will tilt you towards Freedom/Chaos by an infinitesimally small amount. There will be a counter-measure for players trying to maintain their current alignment/push in the opposite direction, although in almost all playthroughs the process alone should never result in an alignment shift). Sacrifice will allow you to sacrifice any human or demon ally to strengthen a third demon ally; with more complicated 'forms' of sacrifice allowing for greater transfer of powers/resistances/etc. Sometimes, this may even trigger a metamorphosis! But for game purposes, it's mostly related to my current plan of level/stat schema, so that if you want to go through the game with your superpowered Domovoi, go for it.

One thing that won't work, however, is trying to power up a human through such rituals - or transform them into something else. Of course - that hasn't stopped the rumors...

Since you all have been so helpful + convinced me regarding interest, I will attempt to have a big ol' proper game topic soon. In the meantime, do all feel free to PM since I know I'm rambling and off-topic here. It will be a great beast, and compounded as I only plan to work on it on weekends, tops. I'd much rather get two hours of work done every week and get it done in five years or so, when hopefully the conflict in question has resolved, then work very rapidly on it and burnout within a half-year. (Of course, if I get a rapid boost of energy during my normal cautious pace, I'm quite fine with that!)

[trooper6]

Side Note: What I like about the game concept so far is that it seems to be a grown-up game aimed at grownups.
I have nothing against high school games per se...but I'm not in high school and it is nice to see games with an older audience demographic also taken into consideration.

[Tatty]

Ohoho - fear not, as I have no interest in writing such a scenario (at the moment. And if I ever do, it'll be amazing unique terrible a thing). Buyan is as decrepit as I am, though it is my hope that it will be enjoyable to people, whoever they are and whatever their age - mental or physical - may be. Oh, but there will probably be schools present - though I cannot promise that their presence will be a lightener of the mood and them...

Speaking of - I will now re-direct further Buyan specific comment here. Don't expect my replies to be quite as quick, usually I don't have a block of time freed up like I ended up today. I'm thinking probably weekly, possibly bi-weekly at best; but, as all things, we'll see.

[truefaiterman]

Oh, oh, oh, SMT. GIMME THAT.

But now, fanboyism aside, here's my opinion on the subject:

-Art and Music: Public domain is a no-no. End of thread. It feels lazy and amateurish, a bad copy-paste.
Now... original work based around that... that feels completely different. I actually wanted to do something similar, demon-wise (keeping most of the original designs instead of Kaneko's), so I believe it's a very good idea. If you work around it with original art, it can be awesome. Same about the music, I'm just thinking about Catherine's OST (Most of which is composed of re-versions of classical music). The well known melodies usually have a powerful effect on the user (once again, I remember classical music in Evangelion, everytime it sounds... wow...)

-Plot: If you're planning to have VERY bad ends, it sounds weird to me to not take the plot too seriously, specially when involving different political factions and such. And well, you can actually use the demons to improve that (Most of the time, SMT itself has a constant fight between different ideas, and when demons appear... Hey! The "politicians" now have FRIGGIN' DEMONS!) and use the monsters as a tool to show how the original presented ideals can be twisted and distorted, or taken to their extremes, or... well, you get it.

-System: That pretty much sounds like "you thought SMT system per-se was hardcore enough? WELL F*** YOU". I only played the PS3 Wizardry, and that thing scared me. A lot... Still interested, though...

-Mapping: I think the overworld map isn't specially important for the player, they should be more fixated in the "dungeons" per-se. So it's a matter of what's more comfortable to you (I think something similar to SMT's maps is good enough).

I hope this can be of some help.

[Tatty]

Oh, my.

Lovely avatar choice you have there. I'd raise you a Rennyo, but let's talk shop, shall we? I also have a - tentatively-to-be-updated on the weekends thread here. As such, I'm going to be keeping my answers to your comments here rather general, if that's all right? : )

[*]Colors and Sounds: I was about to disagree most vociferously until you mentioned Catherine (which actually literally was copy-paste, well, re-mastering in the case of Great Gates of Kiev!), and now you're in my good books again. I'm capricious, what can I say? ; ) Specifically, and I'll be sharing my musical and artistic plans in the other thread over time, I want to go for a similar feeling to Drakengard, perhaps one of my favorite games of all time. Though I don't want perhaps to be QUITE so nightmarish and beautiful all the time, I am entranced with the use of the familiar beauty of the classics to create a sense of apocalyptic phantasmagoria.

For original and ambient pieces, I have been working quite happily with Sunvox, though I am currently trying to get the introductory theme to sound just right.

Also Evangelion, aaaah! Off-topic, I find the entire (original) series to be quite uplifting, though that's often just me.

[*]Plot: I think you and I are on the same page here. To expand for the original and general thread, I feel that humor is best used in serious projects to then enhance the direness of a situation - something bleak and all-consuming, a reaction against reality that the player might be able to laugh at, even as they realize that their avatar and the cast they (ideally) care about are in grim situations.

[*]In Which Tatty is a Bad Person: Truth be told, that's exactly what I thought. My siblings would often to refuse to play games with me besides (ironically, given your avatar) Nobunaga's Ambition and adventure/point n' clicks because, well... I crave a challenge! Instant death is nothing then a reason to strive harder! Am I betraying my alignment too obviously here? Apologies. Edit: One thing I would like to note before crashing is I have plans to have two things. A non-immersive breaking difficulty setting, one of which removes a great deal of challenge from the game, and in some cases eliminates combat entirely. I feel there are some players who may be interested in the concept and story who have no interest in dungeon-crawler style RPGs; I want these people to be able to explore the game, as well!


[*]Maps: One thing I plan to discuss in this weekend's edit/update is the map system actually. There's not much I want feedback and advice on, but I will be asking later if the idea I have sounds fun. Usually I could care less what people think, but maps - 2D and 3D - are gonna be seen a lot of the time by players. It should never feel like a chore to get through them, I think.

Naturally, it was quite of help. Thank you for the opinions and feedback!

[Lesleigh63]

Edit: One thing I would like to note before crashing is I have plans to have two things. A non-immersive breaking difficulty setting, one of which removes a great deal of challenge from the game, and in some cases eliminates combat entirely. I feel there are some players who may be interested in the concept and story who have no interest in dungeon-crawler style RPGs; I want these people to be able to explore the game, as well!

Ooh, good timing. I haven't really tried to play an RPG and was worried if I tried to play your game in RPG mode I wouldn't be able to get a handle on the mechanics and wouldn't get very far; plus if I ever have to play something where I have to fight I usually get to a point and can't go any further (unless my nephews and nieces are around where I hand the controller over and say - Get me past this point - pleaaaase).

Although I've read your WIP thread, you didn't list the type of feedback or questions you wanted answered which left me hanging a bit. So I'll just add here...

If I thought I was playing a game that was a reflection on the world today, I probably wouldn't play it (the real world is depressing enough as it is), but if it's wrapped up in a fantasy type setting and I don't realise that that is the purpose - I'd play [guess what I'm trying to say, is I'm looking to escape the everday world and be entertained when I play a game].

Wouldn't want to walk away from your game, feeling really depressed - so I hope there's some uplifting feeling or a sense of hope throughout the story. The characters do seem to get quite downtrodden through the course of the game (from reading your WIP).

Hope this helps a little.

[Tatty]

Yes, it is always good to hear from you! Also, geeze, I realize two people (at least) now have mentioned not finding questions in the thread - I should probably get on that, shouldn't I? : O Sorry about that, but since I got a premonition to check back here, I'll have some (probably rudimentary, ahaha) questions up that should guide discussion until the weekend. My apologies - I tend to usually let people come up with whatever comes to their mind, but I do realize that's not necessarily the best option when dealing with an Ideas thread.

[*]Bahaha, I understand the plight of your nieces/nephews! Truth be told, I understand your position, as well - when I get around to talking systems, I'll elaborate a bit more, but I *think* that what I have planned should streamline the game heavily, while still allowing the option for players familiar to the game-style, those looking for a little challenge, and insane lunatics who want to spend hours with a jittery cup of tea and terrified that the enemy will read their next move. ; P

[*]Regarding the world-today angle; it's kind of a bit of both. I wanted to leave people more seriously aware of the varying ways that issues can be seen in a certain part of the world. I feel that making this solely political and real would not only alienate a lot of people - because it is depressing for many of us to deal with - I believed the best way to discuss it was in a game. When you add the fantastical, demons and an element of character drama, it allows things to take place in a step removed. I think this should meet your definition - but I do understand if you eventually decide/ play and decide it isn't to your liking. : ) I'll thank you for your feedback, all the same!

[*]My themes for the game are like so. The world seems to be falling apart - perhaps literally. Everyone has different ideas on what should be done, or even if anything can be done. But if you choose, you can make a difference - you can change things. The route you take may be not be a fit for everyone - but ideally, the game will guide you to the idea that's natural, and that what may be a 'perfect' route for you may not be what another player or characters sees even as acceptable. But - I am a strong believe that games should have pay-off, and every there will be an unambiguously good ending for each of the three primary alignments, as well as almost all of the various factions.

Thank you again!

(Editors Note: Ohoh, I just enjoy making my characters sad. I'm rather monstrous. ; P You can give them something worth fighting for - or perhaps even laying down arms for - if that is the goal you desire.)

[trooper6]

For a contrasting view. If I leave your game feeling like I've been kicked in the stomach, I'll be really impressed and recommend your game to all my friends. I don't prefer games that are about uplifting escape. I want to be deeply emotionally effected. I want to be moved...unsettled...disturbed...I want to be grabbed by the collar and be challenged. I want to have no idea what to do because all the choices are hard ones. I want regrets and failure and loss...and when (or if) I win, It will make the win all the sweeter.

Also, if using public domain classical music is good enough for 2001 and countless other films, I think it is good enough for your game.