What would you say to first time game creators?

[KomiTsuku]

Do a barrel roll!

Should that fail, “Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm.”

[PixelFade]

It is impossible to please everyone.

Cater to those you appreciate your work and stay righteous on your path. Changing for the naysayers is pointless as they will continue to hate on your work or you will be introduced to a new group of haters altogether.

Also, Lemmasoft is a great place for constructive feedback. As much as you might feel the need to get defensive, recognize that most people here are here to help.

[fleet]

1. Have a friend proof-read your VN before releasing it (you'd be surprised how many typos slip by).
2. Don't get discouraged if your first VN garners little or no attention (there are LOTS of free VNs released here at LSF for folks to read/play, and while yours might be very good, it might get lost in the crowd)).

[Lesleigh63]

Start small like the others have said.

I started small with a 40min kinetic novel. It took me a month to write (about 8000 words) but it took me 11 months to do the art. So even a small project took me a year.

The time can vary depending on how much of the VN you intend to do yourself (plus I work slowly, others have done writing and art themselves and got through it much quicker than I can).

[SundownKid]

1) Stay small as possible, like it's tough to make something that lasts 30 minutes much less several hours.

2) Outline, write, design, program, etc. the game before doing any of the art and music assets. Not only does this save you money if changes are to be made, but it keeps people from having to wait for you to learn how to make the game.

3) Make sure to put all your deals with other team members in writing, and give other team members deadlines if possible, so they can't leave you in the lurch.

4) Don't ask people to work for free or profit share unless you have a working game where you can plug in the assets. Especially if you never even started the game yet.

[MaiMai]

Your art style doesn't have to be anime/manga.

[Sailerius]

On the contrary, if you want anyone to play your game, your art style has to be anime/manga.

[MaiMai]

On the contrary, if you want anyone to play your game, your art style has to be anime/manga.

O...kay? I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I don't think that's something that first timers who have an interest in VNs, but not necessarily the art style would like to read. If anything, there ought to be more diverse art styles.

[Sailerius]

On the contrary, if you want anyone to play your game, your art style has to be anime/manga.

O...kay? I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I don't think that's something that first timers who have an interest in VNs, but not necessarily the art style would like to read. If anything, there ought to be more diverse art styles.

I was being serious. It's a fairly difficult question to answer because on one hand, we should encourage first-timers to make whatever they want, but on the other hand, after poor scoping, the single biggest killer of newcomers' interest in making games is when no one gives their projects any attention, and it's a harsh reality that a VN that doesn't have an anime/manga art style is significantly less likely to be noticed. Being aware of that is important from the getgo, so that a potential creator can weigh the benefits/drawbacks themselves.

[MaiMai]

Obscura's game uses a more western style as opposed to anime/manga and it's gotten a fair amount of attention and I would argue it's not just because of the art, but because of the content (a game aimed not only towards yaoi fans, but to actual gay men and such.) Asher is another game that's not only not anime, but also black and white and uses a more realistic rendering style for its character art and assets.

Basically, I'm politely disagreeing with what you would say to first time creators of VNs because it's not always the reality (I will concede that there's a modicum of truth though) and it's discouraging. The VN niche has a better chance of opening up if there are more diverse styles introduced.

[Green Glasses Girl]

^In addition to Coming Out On Top and Asher, Cinders and Cave! Cave! Deus Videt have both received great reviews, high scores and awards on many sites. Neither have a typical anime/manga style. It's the quality artwork, innovation, and stories that got them noticed. In fact, I'd argue a lot of us are starved for visual novels not in anime/manga style because there are so many of them. But that's a different topic!

I don't have much advice since I'm fairly new to making visual novels as well. However, from the many visual novels I've read, there seems to be a lack of editing by someone other than the creator. And by editing, I mean asking someone if scenes are superfluous, dialogue is clear, or if an event seems to break the flow of the story. If possible, get other people to read your VN before publication!

And a quote from the Nostalgia Critic in which I'll paraphrase: "If you're going to aim to be good or popular, always aim for good. If your work is considered good and popular, that's great. But always know that popular things will fade with time...good things will always be remembered."

[Sailerius]

You can cherry pick counter-examples, but I said it was true in the general case, not in every case. It is an unfortunate reality but not one we should hide from beginning creators. While yes, I think we should encourage more diverse art styles, I think it's an expectation new creators should be aware of. As much as I want to be idealistic, I'm a pragmatist and I think it's more important for new creators to have a grounded view of what they're getting into than to sugar coat reality.

And a quote from the Nostalgia Critic in which I'll paraphrase: "If you're going to aim to be good or popular, always aim for good. If your work is considered good and popular, that's great. But always know that popular things will fade with time...good things will always be remembered."

I don't think that's particularly relevant here. The point I originally made was that new creators are very likely to be discouraged and leave if their projects don't get attention, so my advice is to be conservative with your first title (which, as I also said, you should probably not spend a lot of time on), and use the experience you gained from that to begin branching out and exploring.

[MaiMai]

I cherry picked examples because in terms of art assets, I don't think first timers have to be conservative on that front. I would even argue that different art does get attention and that was the point of the examples.

[Auro-Cyanide]

You can cherry pick counter-examples, but I said it was true in the general case, not in every case. It is an unfortunate reality but not one we should hide from beginning creators. While yes, I think we should encourage more diverse art styles, I think it's an expectation new creators should be aware of. As much as I want to be idealistic, I'm a pragmatist and I think it's more important for new creators to have a grounded view of what they're getting into than to sugar coat reality.

And a quote from the Nostalgia Critic in which I'll paraphrase: "If you're going to aim to be good or popular, always aim for good. If your work is considered good and popular, that's great. But always know that popular things will fade with time...good things will always be remembered."

I don't think that's particularly relevant here. The point I originally made was that new creators are very likely to be discouraged and leave if their projects don't get attention, so my advice is to be conservative with your first title (which, as I also said, you should probably not spend a lot of time on), and use the experience you gained from that to begin branching out and exploring.

*raises an eyebrow* Having worked in a number of styles I can say with honesty that while style will impact who your audience is, it will not mean a difference between an audience and no audience. That isn't the way this works. If anything I would say semi-realistic painterly styles have far more impact in certain circles, by the specific point it isn't anime styled. If you are aiming for the anime crowd then by all means, anime styles are probably the way to go. But they are hardly the whole gaming market. Not to mention if you can pull off a different style well it will benefit you greatly by setting yourself apart from the competition. The key is the art is aesthetically good*, not what style it is.

Your claim doesn't have an proof behind it, while the counter claim has a number of examples. Those examples wouldn't exist if what you have said is true. Visual Novels have well and truly started breaking out of the whole 'anime' styled thing. We shouldn't be trying to hold on to it and telling new creators that they have to do it.

*A good story and interesting premise can over-ride a lot, but good art will still be a benefit on top of that. No-one ever said that they wouldn't play a game because the art was too polished/good/whatever positive value and they preferred less.

Also I see someone has already posted my blog post *thumbs up*

[papillon]

A more realistic bit of sad-but-true advice is that if you really want your game to go over well, your art should be good.

There are counter-examples of that as well, but certainly as a first-timer, you're more likely to get attention with attractive art in whatever style you can pull off best than with a bad attempt at anime.

(Sort of what auro-said, but more to the point!)