What do you guys think of language learning games?

A place to discuss things that aren't specific to any one creator or game.
Forum rules
Ren'Py specific questions should be posted in the Ren'Py Questions and Annoucements forum, not here.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Mithrilda
Regular
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:01 pm
Contact:

What do you guys think of language learning games?

#1 Post by Mithrilda »

I was thinking that the visual novel platform would be really cool for language learning, like, with pop-up dictionaries and translations and voice over with a limited vocabulary for beginners. Would people be interested in something like this? Would it be really hard to make? Also, should the language learning be a part of the plot or just the language that it's in?

I'm really interested in what you guys think about it.
Last edited by Mithrilda on Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fleet
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1571
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:25 pm
Deviantart: fleetp
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of educational games?

#2 Post by fleet »

You might want to check the existing discussion on educational games. http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=26929
Some of my visual novels are at http://www.the-new-lagoon.com. They are NSFW
Poorly done hand-drawn art is still poorly done art. Be a Poser (or better yet, use DAZ Studio 3D) - dare to be different.

User avatar
Mithrilda
Regular
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:01 pm
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of educational games?

#3 Post by Mithrilda »

fleet wrote:You might want to check the existing discussion on educational games. http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=26929
Thanks a lot for the link!

User avatar
Aviala
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:40 am
Completed: Your Royal Gayness, Love Bug, Lovingly Evil
Organization: Lizard Hazard Games
Tumblr: lizardhazardgames
itch: aviala
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#4 Post by Aviala »

I'd be super excited to play a VN that taught me language skills! For example, I've been trying to study japanese for a while but it's really hard to learn languages by just reading things online.

I don't think an educational VN would be very hard to code. The biggest problem would probably be actually making the game both fun and educational. When I hear the word "educational game" I get the mental image of those horrible math games I played in elementary school. They were educational but not very fun - they felt pretentious and it felt like the games kinda assumed I was stupid, or the plot and characters were cheesy and ugly.

It also sounds kinda easy to start making a language-learning game... but to do that, you need to be fluent in at least two languages. Or alternatively you need to have two people: one who is a native english speaker and can also speak language X pretty well, and one who is a native language X speaker who knows some english. You also need some knowledge on education and teaching methods or else it's going to be very hard to make a game like that.

User avatar
TheChris
Regular
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Projects: Stickshooter
Deviantart: innocencecanceller
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#5 Post by TheChris »

That sounds like a great idea. One of the reasons I'm making a visual novel is because I want to give the Japanese people that have helped learn Japanese on Lang8.com a free story in English. If you don't already have an idea, here's what I think would make an interesting language learning game: You're a foreigner trying to find his way around a city. You have to ask people around town how to get to a place to eat, sleep, and whatever else. You could have a humorous endings/routes where the player says something offensive and gets arrested, or something else that would make improper questions/remarks memorable.

User avatar
Katta
Veteran
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 11:18 am
Tumblr: gamesbykatta
Deviantart: katjama
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#6 Post by Katta »

I think learning material should be incorporated into a story, so that you'll need to know something to progress with it. If it's just pop-up dictionaries and added information it'll just be skipped and learning it won't be different from just opening the dictionary and learning stuff straight from it - boring.

User avatar
Mithrilda
Regular
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:01 pm
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#7 Post by Mithrilda »

Katta wrote:I think learning material should be incorporated into a story, so that you'll need to know something to progress with it. If it's just pop-up dictionaries and added information it'll just be skipped and learning it won't be different from just opening the dictionary and learning stuff straight from it - boring.
I was thinking about your post and I actually thought of a premise! Thanks!

So, this girl breaks something in this restaurant and has to work there for two months to repay it. The other staff don't really like her because she broke it and all the customers speak a foreign language! She has to learn how to greet each gender and age range correctly as well as take orders and select the correct food items that the customers ordered. Her coworkers sometimes will ask for help and her performance will help raise her friendship and help her earn more money in tips to pay off the item. Her friendship and the amount of money at the end will determine the ending. Two modes, with the phonetic words or the real words depending on the player's proficiency. What do you think?

User avatar
Tyrantauranox
Regular
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:31 am
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#8 Post by Tyrantauranox »

I got Go Go Nippon! in the hopes that it would be good for learning, but it didn't help much at all, due to lack of voice, loose translations, and zero help for kanji. I'd be willing to give something else a try, but I'd have to play a demo first

TrickWithAKnife
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1261
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:38 am
Projects: Rika
Organization: Solo (for now)
IRC Nick: Trick
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#9 Post by TrickWithAKnife »

Mithrilda wrote:I was thinking that the visual novel platform would be really cool for language learning, like, with pop-up dictionaries and translations and voice over with a limited vocabulary for beginners. Would people be interested in something like this? Would it be really hard to make? Also, should the language learning be a part of the plot or just the language that it's in?

I'm really interested in what you guys think about it.
Oh man, you're singing my song right now!

I've been working on a VN to help people learn foundation level Japanese for maybe two and a half years. It's still far from completion because I work incredibly slow.

So yeah, I think it's a great idea. My methodology differs a lot to yours, but that's mostly due to personal preference rather than one way being better than another.

A massive number of people are really supportive of educational VNs - even people who never play VNs.

A lot of the feedback I've received so far is that the educational side needs to be worked into the plot as smoothly as possible - to the point that the player doesn't even realize they are learning. Pacing is more important than with a regular VN.

I've found the voice over part to be a source of some stress. I have three barriers:
  • Japanese voice actors are incredibly expensive.
  • My Japanese friends who offered to willing to help for free have no experience, training.
  • Having non-Japanese people do voice acting in Japanese always sounds unnatural. (Sorry guys!)
This is just my personal experience, but considering how important voice acting is for correct pronunciation, it's hard to give up on.

I say go for it! I'd love to see how other people take tackle the challenge of balancing education with interest.
Last edited by TrickWithAKnife on Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We must teach them through the tools with which they are comfortable."
The #renpy IRC channel is a great place to chat with other devs. Due to the nature of IRC and timezone differences, people probably won't reply right away.

If you'd like to view or use any code from my VN PM me. All code is freely available without restriction, but also without warranty or (much) support.

User avatar
trooper6
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3712
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:33 pm
Projects: A Close Shave
Location: Medford, MA
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#10 Post by trooper6 »

The Geothe Institute produced a fun language learning game Das Geheimnis Der Gimmelsscheibe which I enjoyed quite a lot and think would make a great model for other language games.

http://fluentlanguage.co.uk/blog/myster ... ame-review
A Close Shave:
*Last Thing Done (Aug 17): Finished coding emotions and camera for 4/10 main labels.
*Currently Doing: Coding of emotions and camera for the labels--On 5/10
*First Next thing to do: Code in all CG and special animation stuff
*Next Next thing to do: Set up film animation
*Other Thing to Do: Do SFX and Score (maybe think about eye blinks?)
Check out My Clock Cookbook Recipe: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 51&t=21978

User avatar
Tyrantauranox
Regular
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:31 am
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#11 Post by Tyrantauranox »

@TrickWithAKnife: I wonder if you could find a happy medium when it comes to voice actors. -perhaps a talented hobbyist, or a theatre student (I know it's easier said than done)

User avatar
Mithrilda
Regular
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:01 pm
Contact:

Re: What do you guys think of language learning games?

#12 Post by Mithrilda »

trooper6 wrote:The Geothe Institute produced a fun language learning game Das Geheimnis Der Gimmelsscheibe which I enjoyed quite a lot and think would make a great model for other language games.

http://fluentlanguage.co.uk/blog/myster ... ame-review
That looks interesting! Thanks so much for sharing it with me. Too bad I can't understand any of it though, haha. I think I might try making something like that.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users