Get your games out there!

[papillon]

.... I have forum members asking if there's going to be another visual novel for them to buy!

I have an interesting idea germinating that will be announced here at some point but if I understand the terminology correctly, it's going to be much closer to an otome date sim than to a visual novel.

I can't even contemplate making another game like Fatal Hearts at this point, not just because of how long it took to make but also because I'd need another Big Plot Idea that ticked all of my buttons while not reusing anything (much) from the last plot... it's going to take a while to recharge.

So, anyway, a commercial VN is quite possible.... get going!

[Samu-kun]

Lawlz. If only creating a commercial quality VN was so easy... ^_^;;; *gets back to typing furiously for his own game*

I have an interesting idea germinating that will be announced here at some point but if I understand the terminology correctly, it's going to be much closer to an otome date sim than to a visual novel.

Oo... Hopefully it'll be interesting. ^_^ Awrr... It's too bad though... None of your previous games really fitted my tastes. Sorry. >_<;

[DaFool]

a commercial VN is quite possible.... get going!

Thanks for taking the risk and testing the waters. I'm glad it paid off for you. Congratulations on a successful game! Of course, though, it is a hybrid, not a pure visual novel, but that's what gamers expect anyway.

I can't even contemplate making another game like Fatal Hearts at this point, not just because of how long it took to make but also because I'd need another Big Plot Idea that ticked all of my buttons while not reusing anything (much) from the last plot... it's going to take a while to recharge.

Yeah, I have to make sure that each game I make and even each project I work on is different in theme and style and execution from the other, if not radically so. Gamemakers naturally and automatically develop their own 'flavors', so its crucial that they still come up with a diverse 'cuisine' for the players.

If I had a team of artists and musicians and the retail connections I would get to it, so the fact that I can do things solo is also a curse as well as a blessing. (1. If I can do it myself, I'd do it myself 2. I regret the burden of having to do it myself 3. Repeat from step one.)

Anyway, I'm aiming for at least DL-site-level commercial quality (even though some games here look far better than the worst offerings there). Aiming for at least a midlevel not-so-amateur-looking work. Then, take advantage of the freedom of being non-commercial by releasing something totally uncensored.

Non-ero works in general are recommended for the Western audience. Since Japan is peculiar that most of its PC games are ero. (Japan's main market is console games. In the West most PC games are violent).

[Ignosco]

Hopefully they all hear about Ever 17

Do you think a text-only VN would be as appealing as a VN/puzzle hybrid game like Fatal Hearts? Or would your customers generally expect some degree of challenge/interaction from a game?

[monele]

That's really good news! Both for you and the indies at large ^^. Hybrid VN games should be rather "accessible" for game makers so it's a win-win situation if casual gamers (and others) appreciate them .

None of your previous games really fitted my tastes. Sorry. >_<;

I'm pretty much in the same situation ^^;... Even though I'd love to like them, and do like the concepts and indieness, I never really clicked with them. Eh, tastes .

[Vatina]

Congrats!

Yeah, I would do it right away... if making something commercial wouldn't be so confusing to me @_@ I just can't wrap my mind around doing it right.

First step is to see if people like what I create in the first place, I guess

[papillon]

Do you think a text-only VN would be as appealing as a VN/puzzle hybrid game like Fatal Hearts? Or would your customers generally expect some degree of challenge/interaction from a game?

Interestingly multiple reviews have said things like "don't think of it as a game, it's not, it's an interactive story"... so while it may be a clear hybrid to US, it's less so to outsiders.

I can't really answer the question in terms of customers, I can only say what I feel. I like VNs but at the same time I can get "tired" doing nothing but watching text in the little box for hours on end. I start feeling restless. And I'm definitely a reader and enjoy reading things on the computer - but in a format I have more control over and don't have to constantly click click click click through.

(I have elsewhere raised objections to...
overuse...
of this...
sort of thing...
where I am spending...
fifteen minutes...
doing nothing...
but clicking...
through very small...
lines of text...
and have been known...
to quit the game...
rather than force my way...
through even...
the introduction...
...
...
...
and does this really make my thought more...
meaningful?
...
...
...
)

So for me as a player I'm happiest if it's broken up and I have a chance to refocus. This can be done as simply as by having a map screen to visit regularly and make choices on - anything so I'm not just staring at the dialog box forever. You could also break it up by switching between text-box and NVL, or by having regular animation sequences, or lots of things...

People still buy Summer Schoolgirls even though the art is weak and it doesn't have any puzzles. So I expect you could sell a pure VN, as long as you focused on making it accessible to people who aren't hardcore VN-as-high-art junkies.

[gekiganwing]

To papillon:

Is it safe for me to assume that much of your audience has at least a mild interest in shoujo anime/manga? Because that's what I've assumed ever since I saw your site.

I say this because many industry individuals have stated that shoujo has been a major part of the English manga market in the last decade, and part of the reason why it's grown from the days when there was little except "Xenon the Heavy Metal Warrior" and pr0n. (OTOH, series with fighting tournaments and TV tie-ins haven't hurt...)

I'm glad to hear that you're getting good feedback related to Fatal Hearts. Is it selling well?

That said, if you believe that you're seeing the first seeds of an audience, then carefully consider your next decision. Do you think the people giving feedback are mostly interested in a story? Or do they like puzzles? (They might not be old enough to remember graphic adventure games...) Might your fans want a schedule-based love simulation? Something eclectic, like a raising game or a cross-genre RPG? And there's lots of other questions, such as whether the game should be on CD-ROMs or paid downloads; or where the story might happen... but the ultimate decision goes back to what *you* want to create.

I think there could be a shoujo-driven fanbase for English text-driven games. The Neoromance forum and the BL Games forum are a decent start. But in order for the fandom to grow, I think it just has to be nurtured. You can't tell most people "This game is a masterpiece, so why haven't you bought it?" until you've shown them why they might like it, and why it's different from things they won't like.

[papillon]

People who visit my personal site can generally be assumed to have an interest in shoujo. I push 'anime games' as an image and that's what most people who find the site are looking for. I can't say anything about the people who buy from other places like Big Fish or Yahoo, it's too hard to tell. I don't know anything about those customers, other than that they have an interest in games.

But you don't need to tell me about what *I* want to create, I already have plenty of plans and do pretty much what I want. Business people often thought I was a bit nuts for spending two years working on this crazy project instead of pumping out a sequel to my hit. (Fatal Hearts is selling well but it's not, at the moment, looking to be as big a hit as Cute Knight. There are plenty of possible reasons, it's not a worry. I'm really more surprised it's doing as well as it is, from all the negatives there were going in...)


(Sadly, the adventure game market - which DOES still exist - doesn't seem terribly interested. It's a pity. I'm a big adventure fan and still hang out in those circles but a lot of them are, shall we say, set in their ways about what a proper adventure should be? I can be just as bad, though, I won't touch first-person-perspective adventures...)

[DaFool]

people who aren't hardcore VN-as-high-art junkies

B-but VN is high art I tell ya! It's a movie, book, and comic all rolled into one!
At the same time, it's the most forgiving format, since it can take short stories, novellettes, and novellas very well, not just longform novels.

gekiganwing >> Um, that's a bit of a huge responsibility for papillon then. Even if you look at comics for girls and shoujo manga, it had to take the Japanese to show western girls "Hey, you too can have your own comics culture." It will take more than one creator to increase GxB games.

[Jake]

people who aren't hardcore VN-as-high-art junkies

B-but VN is high art I tell ya! It's a movie, book, and comic all rolled into one!

I think the distinction here is that while the VN medium is perfectly capable of supporting high art, that doesn't mean that every single OELVN release has to be high art. For a commercial audience, it's not desirable - art works sell a lot worse than populist mainstream fodder; you only have to look at how many people bought into the Love Hina or Harry Potter series to see that. So if your goals are continually to produce a piece of Proper Art, then you're unlikely to ever have much commercial success.


Also:

At the same time, it's the most forgiving format, since it can take short stories, novellettes, and novellas very well, not just longform novels.

...isn't this totally contrary to what you just said in the Word Count thread?

[Ignosco]

On hybrid games, I guess it's a market that Hirameki (Piece of Wonder) and JAST (Brave Soul, Pretty Soldier Wars, Lightning Warrior Raidy I and II, Princess Waltz) have tried (or are trying to) tap into. But having played Pretty Soldier Wars, describing it as a VN with a significant TBS component would probably make it come off very badly - as a TBS game with a plot (VN section) and some 'bonus' elements, it doesn't do as badly, especially for its' price. I guess it suffers from some problems that could be evident in hybrid games. By dividing the effort between the TBS, VN and dating/yoju areas, it ends up being rather average at best in any of those areas - which limits appeal to anyone with a particular interest in a specific side of the overall game. I've only played the demo of Fatal Hearts (I'll buy it eventually... once my backlog of games is cleared up a bit), but by using a variety of puzzles, even if a player doesn't like one, it won't ruin that side of the game for them.

Erk... that's a rather dense, rambling paragraph of text

[Twar3Draconis]

I had considered this once, even attempted it. Failed in the development process though. Mostly due to some level of dissatisfaction with my own artwork and interface, so I never got around to completing it. -_- Of course, that was the one man approach.