"You are not allowed to make visual novels that are games."

[ArachneJericho]

So when I worked for $BIG_COMPANY and had to ask for legal clearance on my visual novel side-hobby, this was the answer I got.

There are actually multiple layers to this, and is dependent on $BIG_COMPANY's definition of "game".

1. I'm not allowed to call my visual novels games in any context.
2. I'm not allowed to list my visual novels under categories that imply they are games.
3. I'm not allowed to sell, post, or advertise my visual novels on gaming sites/apps such as Steam.
4. I'm not allowed to have an inventory system or anything that looks like an inventory system.
5. I'm not allowed to have leaderboards or anything that looks like a leaderboard.
6. I'm not allowed to have stories that are more complex than branching.

And the worst part is that this non-compete may follow me for five years after I left $BIG_COMPANY. It depends on the packet they're sending me in snail mail.

I've been staring this in the face for a while and am breaking down in tears. At least they let me do something?

In the meanwhile it occurs to me that possibly I should pull all my threads about my visual novels from the Lemmasoft forums. But possibly it is OK as long as nobody calls my visual novel a game. Sigh.

CLARIFICATIONS:
I left $BIG_COMPANY on November 7th, but before I did so, I was still working on visual novels and planning to sell them, or at least distribute them. That was Legal's answer to me before I even thought about leaving.

When I left (for other reasons), it was made clear to me that some of the non-compete that I signed might still apply for up to five years after termination.

I am mostly venting. I am very sorry for that. I should have made a post under General Discussion or something like that. Otherwise this is not an interesting thread and not useful for anyone.

(Or just not said anything at all, that was probably the better option.)

Sorry for messing up the forums.

[Godline]

This seems ridiculous. What is $BIG_COMPANY anyways and what say do they have on whether or not VNs can be games?

Certainly IMO there's a difference between a kinetic novel (which maybe shouldn't be called a game) and a VN/dating sim with RPG elements, inventories and character choice.

They're wrong. So don't feel bad about it.

[Milkymalk]

Is there anything in your employment contract that bars you from making games? If not, screw them, what business of theirs is it what you do in your free time?

[firecat]

i dont quite follow on how the story relates to today, did they do something to you? or are you warning us about $BIG_COMPANY? i understand that there may be some legal issues but theres no way we can help you on that topic. if you need help on contracts then it might be better to ask a lawyer because i am no phoenix wright.

[Biomass]

So if I read you correctly, $BIG_COMPANY is making you sign a non-compete contract that forbids you from making any games on your own time during the time you are employed and for 5 years after you leave their employment. I feel like that is too broad.... Also you should check whether non-competes are enforceable in your state. In some jurisdictions, they are just used as scare tactics.

Think of it this way, if your entire professional career revolves around making games (I don't know if it does, i'm just using an example) and they make you sign a non-compete for all games, that is effectively destroying your livelihood if they ever fire you. That is insane.

[ArachneJericho]

Hello all,

Let me clear up the situation. I apologize for not being clear in the OP.

I left $BIG_COMPANY on November 7th, but before I did so, I was still working on visual novels and planning to sell them, or at least distribute them. That was Legal's answer to me before I even thought about leaving.

When I left (for other reasons), it was made clear to me that some of the non-compete that I signed might still apply for up to five years after termination.

I am mostly venting. I am very sorry for that. I should have made a post under General Discussion or something like that. Otherwise this is not an interesting thread and not useful for anyone.

(Or just not said anything at all.)

I will edit the OP to include this information.

[fleet]

I am not a lawyer.

I assume you kept a copy of whatever the company had you sign where you agreed to all that BS. If you didn't sign anything agreeing to their restrictions, you should not have anything to worry about.

If you did sign a post employment agreement, have an attorney of your own choice look at it and get their independent opinion. Just because a employer's Legal Department tells you that you can't do something doesn't mean it is enforceable.

[Milkymalk]

Same opinion here.
a) If the non-compete agreement is not in the contract or default by law, it's not true.
b) If it's in the contract but laws say it can't be enforced, same as a).
c) If it's in the contract, but it says nothing about how long it will be effective, that agreement ends when your employment ends (unless laws say something different by default).

If you are still unsure, hire a lawyer to look over all relevant documents. It won't take that long because it's a standard case so it won't be very expensive.

[ArachneJericho]

Thanks, folks! I will look into getting a lawyer to look my contract and non-compete over.

[Noire]

Please let us know how it turned out later, I really hope that everything will turn out okay, because this whole situation is just silly.

[Mithrilda]

I agree. Good luck

[Caveat Lector]

I hope everything turns out okay. Good luck!

[ArachneJericho]

Thanks, folks! I'll update this thread when I have more information.

[trooper6]

I have to say, their non-compete details, even if they are legal...seem...really easy to get around. Basically you just say: "my VN is not a game" and then do your VN. Many people in the VN community and outside it already don't think VNs aren't games, so It seems to me you have a pretty good cover for doing what you want to do...except inventory and leaderboards. Also, no story more complicated than branching? What does that mean? It means, that you say, "yep! My story isn't more complicated than branching."

First, I don't know if their contract is legal... But, even if it is legal, there is so much wiggle room and interpretation and silliness...that it seems unenforceable.

[SundownKid]

I don't feel like an indie visual novel, a niche genre, would have so much of an impact on the company's bottom line as to justify something of this magnitude. It doesn't seem like it would be very enforceable to me.

It's one thing if, say, a computer programmer goes and starts his own company with proprietary software he made in Company X. But a visual novel is more of a creative endeavor and not a technical one that would threaten a company.