Battle System uses

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monele
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Battle System uses

#1 Post by monele » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:30 am

We've seen one in Elven Relations and MorningStar and I remember someone actually posted a free-to-use one.
I was just wondering if there were recent projects planning to use a battle system of sorts or if people are still looking for a battle system to use (the existing one(s) not fitting their needs maybe).

("why this thread?" : I'm in a RPG mood and was thinking of what could be done for hybrid games focusing on battles)

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Re: Battle System uses

#2 Post by Adorya » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:41 am

I am currently using a "use sword, go to page 156489" system for my next project, but it would be nice to use a very simple battle system requiring :
- hp
- special chargeable/non chargeable skill
- 1 vs 1
- dragon quest like perspective (only opponent is visible facing you)

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Re: Battle System uses

#3 Post by monele » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:48 am

"dragon quest like perspective"
Was thinking about that, if only because it's easy to make and it doesn't require too many pictures.

"1 vs 1"
I would go with a team vs team but hey, the team could always have one person in it ;)

"special chargeable/non chargeable skill"
Mm? What do you mean by chargeable?

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Re: Battle System uses

#4 Post by Adorya » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:50 am

monele wrote: "special chargeable/non chargeable skill"
Mm? What do you mean by chargeable?
Something like an item inventory feature but appliable to skill (expandable, limited in use or per fight/day/turn).

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Re: Battle System uses

#5 Post by monele » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:56 am

Okay, like a rod with charges àla D&D hm? I was mostly thinking of magic points at first but this is interesting ^^

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Re: Battle System uses

#6 Post by papillon » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:15 pm

(thoroughly ridiculous idea) MAKEUP WARS!

Girls attacking each other with blush and lipstick to see who can make each other look sillier faster!

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Re: Battle System uses

#7 Post by Adorya » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:24 pm

papillon wrote:(thoroughly ridiculous idea) MAKEUP WARS!

Girls attacking each other with blush and lipstick to see who can make each other look sillier faster!
The girls get "damaged" by showing more and more lipstick random pattern on them, it's not ridiculous at all and can be done by just adding layers of pattern (instead of having to redraw full character set), maybe... :)

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Re: Battle System uses

#8 Post by Vatina » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:02 pm

I wouldn't mind making a game with fighting rpg-like elements in it. I just don't think I can do it very well.... so I would probably need someone's help for that.
It would definitely be something more than just a few simple battles like in Elven Revelations, hopefully.

Something like Disgaea/Battle Moon Wars would be cool too, but that's probably impossible :P

The Makeup Wars idea is funny xD Makes me think of when they shout "Makeup!" in the Sailor Moon transformation scenes.....

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Re: Battle System uses

#9 Post by DrakeNavarone » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:37 pm

I still have a very very basic framework for a battle menu, which I haven't touched for ages. I'm not quite sure what ever did happen to that project (enerccio, what did happen to that project?)... It could probably be greatly improved upon and not much use to anybody at the moment, but I could post what I have, depending on the answer to my parenthetical question...
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Re: Battle System uses

#10 Post by 000 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:02 am

Well, if someone could share a battle system, it would be A-W-E-S-O-M-E! Even rough skeleton would go.
After all, developers always could collaborate to make a good one...
I myself thought of creating battle system, but as my Python skill is close to absolute zero... Well, I can cheer!

Anyway, could someone point me to the "existing one(s)" mentioned by monele, please?
Last edited by 000 on Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Battle System uses

#11 Post by Samu-kun » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:23 am

papillon wrote:(thoroughly ridiculous idea) MAKEUP WARS!

Girls attacking each other with blush and lipstick to see who can make each other look sillier faster!
That sounds like a minigame out of a Mario Party game. :3

Mm... I'm working on a project right now that's a hybrid between a SHMUP and a kinetic novel. I'm not programming this in Ren'py, so I'm not going to be much help at creating any sort of a framework for the community. >_<;; But I have plenty of other issues to talk about. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty glad that Monele posted this topic. ^_^

First off, I'm concerned about the contrast between the two vastly different genres. I'm hoping to avoid the scenario that it's a VN with some SHMUP minigames on the side. And I'm also trying to avoid the scenario that it's a SHMUP with some storyline elements between missions. It's going to be a tricky job trying to balance the two vastly different genres and actually create something that gives the best of both worlds. The biggest problem is that a SHMUP is based on extremely fast paced action while a VN is based around slow immersion into another world. And this problem goes beyond just SHMUPs too. Even in RPGs, the battles are going to be much more fast paced that what you'd find in a VN. I'm afraid that the player's either going to be lost and confused on what to do during the the gameplay segments or bored out of his mind while reading through the VN segments.

I've attempted to solve this by mimicing the structure of an anime. We have three types of episodes: the normal episode where there's an equal amount of action and storyline, the action episode where there's alot of fighting but little storyline, and the storyline episode where there's almost no action but alot of exposition. And I've tried to alternate between those three types of episodes. For example, right after an action episode, I try to give a storyline episode where the player can relax, find out why he's there and why he's fighting, and then after that give him another action episode. But if all else fails to set the pacing correctly, I just add a panty shot. Because panty shots tend to fix everything. ^_^

However, as a final backup, I also include the ever handy option of having the game run in "visual novel mode" where the difficulty of the SHMUP segments is reduced to nill and just let the game play itself or the "SHMUP mode," where all the VN segments are skipped.

Which leads to the other question of the difficulty level. I'm going to assume that some VN players have never played a SHMUP. And I'm also further assume that some (although a much lesser amount) of VN players have no experience playing RPGs. It's really frusterating when you can't progress through the story because the gameplay is too difficult. And as a warning, always, always make sure that you can easily beat the game. I've generally found that if I set the difficulty where it's kind of challenging for me to beat the game, then it's practically impossible for anyone else to even survive for 10 seconds. You always underestimate the difficulty of a game. So I'm thinking that difficulty levels are definately a must.

Finally, there's also the costs to consider. Adding gameplay to a VN is alot of work. I'm really paying for it now beause I'm still drawing for the VN aspect of my game and I've barely even begun to touch the amount of graphics I'll need for the gameplay. ^_^; It's like I'm working on a fully fleged VN and a fully fledged SHMUP at the same time! It's pretty crazy. But if I hadn't done this, I probably would have abandoned the VN project and instead started working on a SHMUP game half way through, or vice versa. :3

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Re: Battle System uses

#12 Post by monele » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:25 am

could someone point me to the "existing one(s)" mentioned by monele
I tried finding the one I mentioned that didn't seem linked to any project but I couldn't find it anymore :(... I'm not sure it has its own thread so it might make things harder to find ~_~...
I'm concerned about the contrast between the two vastly different genres.
Hmm... It will have a lot to do with tastes, that's for sure. But your SHMUP/VN hybrid will probably be similar to a RPG in the sense that exploration/quiet is the job of the VN part and fighting/quick is the job of the shmup part.
Then, it depends on how much of both parts you want. Elven Relations had some RPG-type fighting, but it was a tiny part of the whole game. You were actually given the choice to get fights as a VN instead which was an awesome idea... but it works for Elven Relations because removing the RPG fights doesn't really detract from the experience.
I have the feeling your game is more "half and half" of both genres. Removing the VN or the shmup will probably destroy the experience as a whole ^^;... (well, maybe not, but given the descriptions, that's how I see it). So... unless you think it's possible to turn shmup scenes into VN scenes, you probably won't want a "VN-only" mode. Therefore, the idea of difficulty levels is certainly good as it'll lower the entry barrier for many people. Once that's done, though, you probably can't help having some people still uninterested by the VN/shmup mix. But I'd say that's the risk of mixing genres.
Of course, the "shmup mode" is also a good idea. People who want to play the shooter part without the story should be content with this and it doesn't demand any more work.
I've generally found that if I set the difficulty where it's kind of challenging for me to beat the game, then it's practically impossible for anyone else to even survive for 10 seconds.
Yeah, I've witnessed that recently too XD... That's why it's important to have people testing the game and telling you what they did. An RPG example is me beating some easy boss in 3 turns while my tester spent 7 turns on it. It never even occured to me that the fight *could* last that long. I also saw another tester get a character killed during the fight which also never happened to me.
Wether you use difficulty levels or somehow test the player results and give out more help (lives, ammo, power, whatever) is up to you, but yes, there has to be sort of "rubberband" effect so the game adapts to the player to a certain extent.
Maybe you could also indirectly ask the player if he feels overwhelmed : a character in the game asks this and will lend some help if needed.
Adding gameplay to a VN is alot of work.
I'd say it depends on what the gameplay is, really. A shmup is very graphic intensive and there's a lot of stuff moving around. If you take a rather static RPG fighting system, it's often a matter of drawing a picture per fighter and setting up the fights... and of course, coding the RPG system :P... Well... let's say it's as complex as you let it be.


Now, for the project I have in mind, I thought of making the RPG part a bit more proeminent, but only for fights. No map exploring (otherwise, might as well make an actual RPG)... Not sure how accessible I can make it though. The fact it would be turn-based should work for VN players since there's no twitch reflexes needed... and if fights are more "clever", maybe VN players wouldn't be bored compared to a simple repetitive bashing until HP=0.
But honestly, I'm not really expecting pure VN players to like it. It's more for people who like RPGs AND VNs.

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Re: Battle System uses

#13 Post by JQuartz » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:59 am

000 wrote:Anyway, could someone point me to the "existing one(s)" mentioned by monele, please?
I don't know which one is mentioned by monele but there's one that was posted by Tayruh (not sure you're allowed to use it though). Here's the URL:http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... f=8&t=2819
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Re: Battle System uses

#14 Post by monele » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:42 am


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Re: Battle System uses

#15 Post by Vatina » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:03 am

monele wrote:Now, for the project I have in mind, I thought of making the RPG part a bit more proeminent, but only for fights. No map exploring (otherwise, might as well make an actual RPG)... Not sure how accessible I can make it though. The fact it would be turn-based should work for VN players since there's no twitch reflexes needed... and if fights are more "clever", maybe VN players wouldn't be bored compared to a simple repetitive bashing until HP=0.
But honestly, I'm not really expecting pure VN players to like it. It's more for people who like RPGs AND VNs.
Yes, something like that was what I was thinking of as well. I think it would be something I would enjoy playing ^^

There is always the problem about some VN players who won't like the hybrid parts with more gameplay, but I guess it's just one of those cases where you can't please everyone. As long as we make a bit of both kind of games it's all good, right? :3

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