Fanbase before or after demo release? Or after Kickstarter?

[Morhighan]

Good points, Trooper6!
I totally messed up my wording on the game bit, you're right. I have a hard time getting myself to sell my projects sometimes. At least, game projects. Other things (bookkeeping) not so much.
Sometimes it feels to me like shameless plugging and that's awkward. Other times it's like I get passionate and eloquent (lucky combo!) and it serves me well (like in the other topic). There's that thin line to follow, I think, since I don't want to oversell but also don't want to undersell. It also depends on my own sense of self, and I will admit I was down on my project when I wrote the other message. (There's been so much negativity for some new projects lately I think I got spooked. Kind of "Why am I doing this?")
I'll have to reapply some enthusiasm from bookkeeping to my project.

EDIT:
I also just realized something! With the dischan situation, they already had a fanbase (I think) thanks to Juniper's Knot. They made a successful crowdfunding campaign but still managed to not succeed thanks to financial oversight.
There are SO MANY things to consider with demos and Kickstarting. I still hold to the thought that demos generally do more harm than good, but they can get existing fans really excited and invite new people to try the game and potentially become members of the fanbase.
Gee, making games is a tricky business when you really think about all of those tiny aspects involved.

[trooper6]

Yay for enthusiasm! It is important! If you bring the pitch you brought for bookkeeping to your pitch for AIdol...I think you will do well.

But to discuss demos...well. I don't think I've ever given money to a project because of a demo. And as a matter of fact, for games that that spent money on that gave me a demo to hold me over before the final product came out (Break chance momento and Soltice) I haven't played them because I don't want to be spoiled.

So...demos haven't made the difference for me when it comes to Visual Novels (they have helped with AAA games that are really pricey).
What has helped? A track record of producing things I have liked (Christine Love; Cyanide Tea). Or being innovative and different (Cave, Cave, Deus Videt; Moa Cube). Or having good representational politics (Moa Cube; Coming Out on Top). People who give back to the community here will also get me to play their game if I otherwise wouldn't.

Oh! ETA: This is a strange and perhaps shallow thing, but if the image the person has chosen for their icon here on the forums is interesting and not cliché, that will also be a factor in me giving the person's project a look. If a person has a cliché icon, that won't stop me from checking out their work, but it won't be a motivator either.

[Enigma]

Oh! ETA: This is a strange and perhaps shallow thing, but if the image the person has chosen for their icon here on the forums is interesting and not cliché, that will also be a factor in me giving the person's project a look. If a person has a cliché icon, that won't stop me from checking out their work, but it won't be a motivator either.

I'm actually curious about this, what do you mean by this?

[Morhighan]

But to discuss demos...well. I don't think I've ever given money to a project because of a demo. And as a matter of fact, for games that that spent money on that gave me a demo to hold me over before the final product came out (Break chance momento and Soltice) I haven't played them because I don't want to be spoiled.

So...demos haven't made the difference for me when it comes to Visual Novels (they have helped with AAA games that are really pricey).

I agree, I rarely play demos. The only reason my game will have one is because of the requirement of this forum for crowdfunding links.
I did find a way to avoid spoilers while adding to the story and still showing a preview of the game's quality though!
I got the idea from the Stanley Parable demo.
If you've played the Stanley Parable and not the demo, go play the demo. Or watch a Let's Play. Something. It's completely different content with the same feel and style that makes the actual game itself so enjoyable.
So with AIdol I've decided on doing a demo as a sort of "Chapter 0"--it's completely optional, but it will give more insight into the story.

[trooper6]

I really enjoyed the Stanley Parable...but never played the demo. So, I'll go check it out! Thanks for the tip.

[Lishy]

Coke! It is a soda! It tastes like all the other sodas and it isn't special. Buy Coke!

Coke commercials are actually pretty funny. The last commercial I recall just showed a bunch of people partying, while a subliminal of Coca-Cola showed transparent on the screen. WTF does that even mean? "Hey, these people who drink Coca-Cola are having a good time! Buy our drink!"

I recall another commercial, where it was some sorta truck driver, and the entire commercial was "Hey, Pepsi is boring! But if you drink Coca-Cola, it feels like a party, and you get hot strippers to dance for you!"

I guess by that logic, anything can be a commercial success if you just show images of other people having a good time, even if the commercial itself is unrelated. Marketing is weird!

I don't disagree. And please believe that I do not give crowdfunding money to the same recycled concepts. That is one of the first things that will disqualify a project from getting my money. Generally, speaking I want to support innovation and things that will make positive political/cultural change in either the world or in the gaming industry or in the VN world.

The restoration of innocence in the once pure? Overcoming intolerance and blind self-righteousness, in order to tell a tale of man's quest for wisdom and enlightenment in the seemingly mundane? Educating readers about the different paths of spirituality, exploring Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Wicca, etc, and teaching readers about their practices and beliefs, as well as the meaning of their symbols, such as the Svastika in Hinduism, and the Pentagram in Wicca, celebrating each of their holidays, like Hanukkah of Judaism... all while combating an organization representing intolerance and the corruption of these cultures and things (where the psychological horror comes into play), by coming together and embracing the world around them?

I guess marketing my story as a Lovecraftian murder mystery was a bad idea. It's really so much more, and my objective was to portray how humanity's quest for enlightenment and joy is something that brings people together. I think it's a really positive message to have in such a seemingly crude and violent story, because when you think about it, the plight of Nyarlathotep in the context of my storyline, is really just a metaphor for the acceptance of one self and others. Appreciate that which is temporary. Love is something that ties people together, and by opening our eyes to the innocence of things, we are able to gain true sight, and make a future for ourselves.

Again, marketing this as a Lovecraftian murder mystery probably doesn't do it justice. That is merely a backdrop. What this story is really about, is celebrating different holidays and cultures. Bartending and cocktails are a metaphor to appreciate the temporary things in our life-time.

If people learn one thing at least one thing, for example, about Hindu symbols, or Jewish holidays, then I feel I have succeeded with this story.

How's that sound for positive cultural change?

...you don't want to ego stroke, but there is a big difference between ego stroking and marketing your product as if you believe in it and find it valuable and worth other people's time. Self-deprecation is not all that good of a marketing strategy.

But I want to ego-stroke! My VN is gonna be so awesum, it's gonna be renamed "My Girlfriend is the Jewish-Nyarlathotep", or maybe "My Jewish Nyarlathotep couldn't be this cute!"

Come on, when was the last time since Dr. Zoidberg that we had a Jewish Lovecraftian monster? You know the idea is awesome!

[trooper6]

Oh! ETA: This is a strange and perhaps shallow thing, but if the image the person has chosen for their icon here on the forums is interesting and not cliché, that will also be a factor in me giving the person's project a look. If a person has a cliché icon, that won't stop me from checking out their work, but it won't be a motivator either.

I'm actually curious about this, what do you mean by this?

Well, there are lots and lots of EVNs made here in a given year. PyTom said over 200 for 2014. I have limited time. How do I decide which games to check out amidst a sea of so many projects?

There are a number of factors that might cause me to check out a game.
1) Do I know your work already and am positively disposed towards it? (Christine Love, Cyanide Tea)
2) Did I just read a positive review of it on a review site I frequent? (borderhouseblog, rockpapershotgun, VNsNow)

Okay, those are the first main two things that I do. Now you might think, what about the Completed Games, Demos and Beta Testing, and Works in Progress Boards?!
*First off, I never look at the WIP boards. There are way too many threads and no guarantee those games will ever be completed. I don't have time for that.
*As for the Demos and Beta Testing boards...I don't tend to go there often. If I'm feeling like I want to playlets and have the time, I might peruse...I expect I'll do more of that after my tenure packet is done...but I don't have lots of time for that sort of community service at the moment. Though, I will.
*Lastly, the Completed Adult/Competed Games section? There are a lot of threads. A lot. It is my goal to play one new VN a month. If I haven't already gotten my VN through any other way, then I'll look into the board and skim the genres. Then I'll pick something that does not have any of the following in the genre categories: otome, romance. If GxB, BxG, etc is in there that is an indicator that romance is important enough to advertise and I'm less likely to look at it. Some sort of genre that is a bit different will draw my attention From there I look at the title. If the title sounds like the title of a romance novel, then I skip it and go to the next one...If I find a title that is interesting, then I'll look into the thread. If the art in the thread is cliche anime, I will probably move on. If the art is interesting enough, I'll read the synopsis. If the synopsis is interesting, that will be my game for the moth.

BUT, I've probably gotten my game for the month through some other means. I haven't needed to look through the Completed Games forum for a while for my game. So how do I get those games that aren't reviewed or by a creator I already know?

Through interactions in the forums, somebody will catch my eye. If they catch my eye, I'll see if they have a project. If they have a project and it seems halfway interesting? Then that will be my VN for the month.

So for example. Obscura has an icon of a cute dude (Ian) that is not cliche anime. I have been continuously drawn to that icon as interesting. Second, Obscura has participated in some threads where she acquitted herself well. In a particularly heavy philosophical thread about writing queer things when not queer, appropriation, etc. She articulated a position of herself as a non-gay man writing about gay men that seemed really thoughtful and respectful to me. She impressed me quite a lot in that thread. So when her project came out, I bought it. And that was all about conversations in the Creator Discussion thread and her icon.

Another example, Donmai said some interesting things in one of the Creator Discussions so I looked up her work. It was awesome and I played all of the things she released.

Another example, OokamiKasumi has an interesting icon, but more importantly she has posted a number of valuable bits of code in the Cookbook section, so I went off and played her games in support.

Another example, Xela has an interesting icon. Xela has been unbelievably helpful in the Questions and Forum. The minute Xela puts a game in their signature line I'm going to go an play it in support. Xela has been so helpful that I'd pay $5-10 bucks for it no matter what it was.

Another example, Morhighan has a not completely interesting icon...it is very anime...though has some interesting graphic design to it. Now, I don't know if I'm interested in Morhighan's game AIdol...it really hasn't been marketed well enough to me and it has got the Japan/anime thing that tends to turn me off because it is so often done in a cliché way. BUT, Morhighan has engaged me in conversation in a respectful, honest, interesting, and enlightening way. So, know I'm interested in Morhighan...plus she's located in Nor Cal...which is where I'm from. So, while it isn't out now, I know that I'm going to support AIdol when it comes out in order to support Morhighan.

Your icon Enigma is an Anime Dude and an Anime Robot. It doesn't do anything to make me take a second look. So I'm not going to be made curious about your project to look into that based on that. We've not yet built a relationship on the threads to make me take a look at your project based on that. I might be interested in your project if it hit all my buttons and I hadn't already found a game that month and I stumbled across it in the Completed Games forum or the Renpy Games Database.

But of late? The odds are less that is going to happen because I'm often getting my games through these other methods first.

The last few games I'm played and why:

Next:
Aloners--because it got a Rave Review on VNsNow.
Current:
Coming Out on Top--because of Obscura's Icon being interesting, and amazing conversations in the forums.
Previous:
Ribbon of Green--because it was in the Weekly Playthrough thread and I thought I'd do that...but then I realized after posting my response that the threat was a year old, Doh!
The Donmai Trilogy: Toire No Hanako, Lil Red, The One in Love--because she got on my radar through a discussion of using 3D images as a base for your art and also her discussion of Kinetic Novels and how she sees her role as director was really interesting and so I thought I'd play her works...then played all three of them.
Lemma Ten 1.0--Because I love Lemmasoft! I found it through some discussion thread.
Ex Astris 2--because I'd played the first one and liked it a lot. I found the first one because I was looking for things that where sci-fi. The only example on this list that was related to finding it on the Finished project list.

So...interesting icon will help cause me to give your project a look. And a boring icon will not.

[trooper6]

How's that sound for positive cultural change?

That sounds pretty awesome. Plus some Lovecraftian Horror and what else could you want. Oh, I know...

Come on, when was the last time since Dr. Zoidberg that we had a Jewish Lovecraftian monster? You know the idea is awesome!

Another Jewsish Lovecraftian Monster!

[Lishy]

How's that sound for positive cultural change?

That sounds pretty awesome. Plus some Lovecraftian Horror and what else could you want.

Pot, BDSM, and slight LGBT representation with the androgynous school nurse. It's a Tumblr-user's paradise!

Want originality? Name me ONE other visual novel to feature a pothead stoner as a heroine. "Mysterious unknown drug" doesn't count.

Interesting note about Marijuana and visual novels, is that references to pot culture is something only possible in an English-Visual Novel, as Japanese do not share the same culture and humor we do. Their standards regarding drugs is a very harsh social taboo, associated with the Yakuza.

On the other hand, in the West, we have the history of those wacky hippies associated with drugs and psychedelics, while Marijuana itself borders on legalization in Canada's very near future (our election ads are already talking about it), and Marijuana in America is already legal in some states. VERY different attitude than the Japanese, and only possible in a Western-made Visual Novel.

Does everyone agree with Marijuana culture? Nope. Do some people think it sounds like a crazy idea? Sure. But I respect readers to understand that writing Slice of Life is about fun scenarios, and how a story's personalities deal with every day situations in their own wacky ways. To me, the everyday life of a stoner, and the follies associated with it, are absolutely hilarious to write!

I mean, if people hate the idea of extravagant personalities, they could always go back to the no-personality, cliche male protagonist, and moefest Nagisa-clone heroine in J-VN#71519, coming soon to a Key VN near you!(TM)

My style is more crude and wild. My heroine is an ale-hound, who will burp without saying "excuse me", and tell you to "toughen up" while giving you a noogie!

Oh! ETA: This is a strange and perhaps shallow thing, but if the image the person has chosen for their icon here on the forums is interesting and not cliché, that will also be a factor in me giving the person's project a look. If a person has a cliché icon, that won't stop me from checking out their work, but it won't be a motivator either.

Mine is a hippie-version of Reimu from Touhou Project, smoking pot, with UFOs and psychedelic colors in the background.

If people thought it was a tooth-pick, they obviously don't know me well enough!

[trooper6]

Note: Lishy now joins my list of creators whose work I'll check out just because they are delightful on the forums.

[Lishy]

Note: Lishy now joins my list of creators whose work I'll check out just because they are delightful on the forums.

Hah, I just edited my post with more info.

[Enigma]

is an Anime Dude and an Anime Robot. It doesn't do anything to make me take a second look. So I'm not going to be made curious about your project to look into that based on that. We've not yet built a relationship on the threads to make me take a look at your project based on that. I might be interested in your project if it hit all my buttons and I hadn't already found a game that month and I stumbled across it in the Completed Games forum or the Renpy Games Database.

Ha I see what you mean. I didn't think you'd be interested in my project to begin with since, even though it has things you've mentioned you like (people of color, political and philosophical themes, and LGBT representation) it's an RPG with a lot of Heavy Metal themes/ motifs. Still it was interesting what you said there and I think I need to change my avatar from Dio to Dio (as in from Dio Brando to Ronnie James Dio) since any metal fan should recognize Dio and it might actually draw them in deeper.

[trooper6]

Now the new icon is definitely one that makes me look twice. And you are developing an RPG with people of color, political and philosophical themes, LBGT representation, and Heavy Metal themes/motifs? That sounds awesome! You are now on my list of projects to keep an eye out for. Please do put a link to your project in your Signature so I can keep tabs on it.