How important is voice acting to you?

[TuttyTheFruity]

I was in a chat with my friends who were talking about Umineko and their differing experiences. One read it without the PS3 patch for updated sprites and voice acting, the other with. The general exchange got me thinking about the place of voice acting in VNs at large.

When a VN offers voice-acting, it's relatively impressive and indicative of higher production values than usual. In general, we welcome it, as VNs, at its heart, represents a hybridization of the information-delivery potential of a written story with the AV appeal of movies and television. Adding voice acting brings a VN closer to the AV sensory cocktail, but I wondered if it was especially important, or if it could even be considered a net gain.

Without bringing up the issue of quality voice acting, I feel, when implemented, voice acting tends to hurt the pacing of a story, as now you are inclined to listen to all necessary vocalizations. This hurts especially in a genre that, even considering its hallmark examples, is rife with poorly-paced stories, and can balloon the time spent on it to staggering degrees. To that end, does voice acting add much to a visual novel on its own merits, or is it more cynically a display of its budget and production values?

Wanted to hear some feedback on the matter. Generally, voice acting is a rather resource-intensive inclusion, and I'm not sure if it's worth the time and effort in most cases.

[trooper6]

Wanted to hear some feedback on the matter. Generally, voice acting is a rather resource-intensive inclusion, and I'm not sure if it's worth the time and effort in most cases.

The only person who can answer if voice acting is worth the time and effort would be the person putting in the time and effort--the creator. There is no universal answer. If voice acting is not worth the time and effort for you as a creator...then it isn't worth it.

For me, for some games I would create, I would want voice acting; for other games I would create, I would not want voice acting. My choice would be based not on time or effort, but on the aesthetics of the experience I'm trying to create.

Ultimately, for me, that is the ideal: make choices based on the the experience you are trying to create. Some games you might want music...some games you might not. Some games voice acting...some games not. Some games ADV, some games NVL. Some games an anime style of art, some games something realistic.

The choice should be based on the game.

[philat]

As a player as opposed to a creator, I rarely bother to listen to voice acting fully unless it's exceptionally, exceptionally well-done. It's only recently that game VA (especially in English) reached a level where for the average AAA production it's not actively detracting from the experience. For indie, I find it's usually still detracting from the experience, tbh. It also requires, as you point out, good pacing, strong writing, and a well-implemented auto mode -- the reason for the last is because I read faster than most VA reads the lines, so if I'm pressing a button to continue I will almost certainly cut off the VA before it's finished and continue reading. VNs in which I enjoyed the VA include Dangan Ronpa and VLR -- both a very high bar.

For non-AAA productions, I would think that partial VA in the style of FE: Awakening is a more realistic goal -- but then, the VA in that was also actually really good for non-intelligible grunts.

[Juno]

I personally have a preference for partial voice acting.

Like philat, I tend to read faster than the lines can be read so a fully voiced VN is often lost on me. I really like partial voice acting, though. Like an emphatic "Yeah!" or a cautious "no" or even a short reading of the first part of the sentence. I think a little bit of voicing really adds a lot to a story but poorly done, it could definitely detract from the story.

[trooper6]

This question is asked a lot actually. And a large number of people generally say the same thing: bad voice acting detracts.

This is true. So don't use bad voice acting.

Bad writing also detracts. Bad art also detracts. Bad programming also detracts. Bad conceptual design detracts. Bad sound also detracts.

[Mad Harlequin]

Bad writing also detracts.

You'd think more people would raise the alarm about this---I really wish they would---but my observations thus far haven't been encouraging. I think there's often an unspoken hierarchy of game and/or VN features that favors the superficial elements above all. But that's a discussion for another thread, I suppose.

[kitsubasa]

I think voice-acting is best used as a tool of accentuation -- as in, it should only be considered important to development if it's going to emphasize another worthwhile aspect of the VN, or draw out an element of the story somehow.

So, for example -- if you have incredibly well-written dialogue, then voice-acting can act as a tool of emphasis for the work you've put into crafting your characters' speech. If you have a character from a particular place, voice-acting can be used to emphasis their nationality (through accent, regional quirks, etc). if you're emulating a style of film or theatre, voice-acting can be used to draw out the feel of these other AV mediums (for instance, campy reads for a schlock horror story).

I don't think voice-acting ever hurts, per se, unless it's actually bad or badly cast, but I only think it's actually important when it plays a part in the narrative or presentation as above. Otherwise, better to spend your money/sink your effort elsewhere.

[trooper6]

Bad writing also detracts.

You'd think more people would raise the alarm about this---I really wish they would---but my observations thus far haven't been encouraging. I think there's often an unspoken hierarchy of game and/or VN features that favors the superficial elements above all. But that's a discussion for another thread, I suppose.

A thing I've been thinking about recently is, what do people feel is important enough to pay for on this site and what they feel is only worth getting for free. This was inspired by someone saying that music shouldn't ever be paid for since there is so much free music out there...yet people have often expressed the attitude that the Tokuyada free sprites shouldn't be used, because they are too recognizable.

What I've noticed is that people think art is important enough that it should be paid for...that it is a skill that should be compensated...but people don't seem to feel writing is something that should be compensated...or audio...or programming...or even voice acting.

The value seems on the whole to be placed disproportionately on art to the detriment of the other elements of the VN.

[philat]

Bad writing also detracts.

You'd think more people would raise the alarm about this---I really wish they would---but my observations thus far haven't been encouraging. I think there's often an unspoken hierarchy of game and/or VN features that favors the superficial elements above all. But that's a discussion for another thread, I suppose.

A thing I've been thinking about recently is, what do people feel is important enough to pay for on this site and what they feel is only worth getting for free. This was inspired by someone saying that music shouldn't ever be paid for since there is so much free music out there...yet people have often expressed the attitude that the Tokuyada free sprites shouldn't be used, because they are too recognizable.

What I've noticed is that people think art is important enough that it should be paid for...that it is a skill that should be compensated...but people don't seem to feel writing is something that should be compensated...or audio...or programming...or even voice acting.

The value seems on the whole to be placed disproportionately on art to the detriment of the other elements of the VN.

I'm not sure I really follow what you're trying to say though. Besides the fact that the thread is asking about VA, not other asset types:

1) Writing is essential -- there is no way to make a VN (in the conventional sense) without writing. Art is also probably essential, but audio in general is pretty optional. If used correctly, it can add greatly to the experience, to be sure, but you can leave it out and still have a game. Therefore, addition by subtraction is possible for audio, but not for writing or art, so unless you want to tell someone not to make a game in the first place...

2) It is far easier to find writing that is at least average (by which I mean, nothing special but not terrible) than it is to find amateur voice acting (or art, for that matter) that isn't immediately a turnoff. Part of this is obviously a matter of standards and/or taste -- some people may not be as bothered by bad writing vs. bad voice acting or vice versa, but that's been my experience across the board. My theory here is that a lot more people receive competent and fairly extensive training in writing than in things like voice acting or art -- it's very easy to find hobbyist art in a game that is the equivalent of "this person doesn't know how to spell or use punctuation" in writing terms (e.g., "that's not how perspective works"), but that's probably natural, given that few of us went through 12 years of training in art although we probably did get 12+ years of spelling, at least. (On the other hand, I admit it could also be sample bias. I won't try it in the first place if the writing is noticeably subpar at first glance.)

3) My sense, at least from observing interactions here, is that VN creators in the hobbyist space are usually primarily writers (see also point 2, since I'm pretty sure there are more people who think they can string two sentences together than there are who would feel comfortable drawing a human being). The driving force behind "I want to make a VN" is "I want to tell X story", or at the very least "I want to create X experience." Therefore, a relative oversupply of writers, reluctance to surrender control when you can do it yourself, and relatively higher average quality of writing makes writing "cheap."

None of which is to say you're wrong per se -- bad anything will detract from a game. But that said, I think it's perfectly natural that one asset may be considered more valuable over another, at least in terms of scarcity and bang-for-the-buck.

[trooper6]

I think the reason writing is relevant is because a case against voice acting was said to be that it would point out how bad VN writing and pacing is. So cutting voice acting is advocated rather than advocating having better writing. And I've got to say, I have read some really bad writing, even in games that are quite popular and well regarded. I think that great voice acting can elevate mediocre writing.

So...I don't think bad writing is a good reason to cut voice acting.

[Rossfellow]

Very. I feel a good voiceover adds a lot to a VN, especially in horror, as its one more way to quickly project an image into the reader. Sound is worth a few hundred words too. (Let them listen rather than put "Said in hushed tones/ hoarse voice/ other tone-painting adverbs.")

However the good voiceovers will always be the most expensive ones and there are good reasons for this. It's just out of my reach. Maybe someday.

[philat]

I think the reason writing is relevant is because a case against voice acting was said to be that it would point out how bad VN writing and pacing is. So cutting voice acting is advocated rather than advocating having better writing. And I've got to say, I have read some really bad writing, even in games that are quite popular and well regarded. I think that great voice acting can elevate mediocre writing.

So...I don't think bad writing is a good reason to cut voice acting.

I agree that bad writing is not a good reason to cut VA.

However, I will add one caveat in that style is also factor. For instance, some VNs are more on the novel side, with lots of description and internal monologue of the MC. Some are more on the visual side, with art and voice acting taking away need for description. That changes the pace. And like I said earlier, VA is slower than reading for many people, so that is also a factor. In other words, I think it's fair to say that VA may not go well with writing that wasn't done with VA in mind, which does tie back in to what you said in the beginning -- have a vision at the start and do everything in accordance with that vision.

I guess where I'm coming from, really, is that even when it's done exceptionally well, I skip a lot of fully voiced anyway. I can count the number of games where I didn't on one hand, and they're all AAA games with actors that none of us could afford. Because I'm like that as a player, as a creator I care very little about VA. But I suppose that's just me.

[truefaiterman]

I used to think that good writing was the most important thing ever. Then I took a look at some of the best-selling books of the last years and laughed. Hard. Of course, I blame that on a lot of public not being educated anymore about literature. With no familiarity with the medium, as long as it's easy to read people will consider it good. Of course, that may also apply to most areas.

Now, putting that aside, I think voice acting helps defining a character. It's a defining trait, and a voice it's an easy way to identify them. Visual Novels, being a lot of times very character-driven, feel like being a pretty good medium to get use of a good VA. Also, as stated, voices help being able to get repetitive with certain adverbs and the like, specially when trying to describe tones or ways of speaking.

Sooo yup, voice acting is pretty important for me. Of course, it's not fundamental, but a powerful addition to the game, and even the narrative.

What I disagree on, is with the state that only the VERY BEST voice acting works. That's not exactly right, the same way a story can (and does) get away with "meh" writing, some broken art (c'mon, the term "sound novel" was almost made for games with poor art that justified it with good sound design!) or even awful design choices (Hi there, Kara no "You have to break your head or go to Gamefaqs for routes to make sense" Shoujo). The main issue with voice acting, as far as I've seen in these kind of games, is that there is no mid-point: I'm used to only see impressive AAA voice acting, or the poorer, most amateur if not just-disgusting failure of voice-over.

Of course, for most people the worst voice-acting will ruin the experience, but it's surprisingly easy to deliver a "good enough" work that actually satisfies most of the public. But that's getting into more technical and boring chatter, and it would deviate from the main topic.

TL,DR: Yes, voice acting is important to me, it defines characters and, if used well, allows for the writer to focus on other things while the characters literally speaks for themselves.

[trooper6]

I agree that bad writing is not a good reason to cut VA.

However, I will add one caveat in that style is also factor. For instance, some VNs are more on the novel side, with lots of description and internal monologue of the MC. Some are more on the visual side, with art and voice acting taking away need for description. That changes the pace. And like I said earlier, VA is slower than reading for many people, so that is also a factor. In other words, I think it's fair to say that VA may not go well with writing that wasn't done with VA in mind, which does tie back in to what you said in the beginning -- have a vision at the start and do everything in accordance with that vision.

I guess where I'm coming from, really, is that even when it's done exceptionally well, I skip a lot of fully voiced anyway. I can count the number of games where I didn't on one hand, and they're all AAA games with actors that none of us could afford. Because I'm like that as a player, as a creator I care very little about VA. But I suppose that's just me.

Your views don't seem to be in the minority. Whenever this topic comes quite a lot of people respond that they don't like voice acting....or they only like voice acting in Japanese when they themselves are not native Japanese speakers. So for a lot of people VA is not worth it either as a player or a creator.

I love good voice acting. But...I've yet to play a Ren'py game with good voice acting. Most of the Ren'py games I've played have no voice acting at all...and the few I've played with voice acting...oof...the voice acting itself isn't good...and even worse, the sound engineering of that voice acting is terrible. So bad. It sounds like the creators got amateurs for free to record their voices in their own homes, those amateurs had no good mic and no good recording environment and then the creator did no mastering of the sound files--so the volumes are all inconsistent, the sound is inconsistent...oof. So bad.

But, just because there is bad voice acting and sound engineering out there doesn't mean I have given up on voice acting as a concept. Also I am confidant that good voice acting and engineering can be had for not outrageous amounts of money (I partly feel this way because I have a background in sound engineering so could do that myself and because I have been an actor for ages and know people I could ask--and know what I'd be looking for). I've heard too many great examples of voice acting in adventure games to give up on it. Heck, even TellTale Games's stuff shows the positive possibilities of voice acting in something that is basically a visual novel with a lot of bells and whistles. I've also heard too many examples of amateur radio plays (on podcast) that are good or good enough to show that something good or good enough is very doable.

However...again, not all games are made for voice acting. For example, the game I'm currently working on (which is on pause until I get my tenure packet done in June) I don't want voice acting for. I want to play with the urge some players have to interrupt and skip through text without reading it...and also the voices for some of the characters would probably be uncomfortable in audio...and having the voices would make some things concrete that I want to be ambiguous. So for this project, VA is not the way I'd want to go. But for other projects it would be important to me...and for those projects I would design them from the beginning to have voice acting.

I generally don't think things a creator is using should be afterthoughts. I think the elements of the game should be conceived of together and with purpose.

And this is, really, I think the problem, and why I bring up the the willingness to pay for various elements, which is linked to respect for the difficulty/necessity of the elements. Many on these boards tend to want free voice over talent and never ask for sound engineers...they seem to figure they can just do that part by themselves. But voice acting is a skill and sound engineering is a skill and VA directing is a skill. Actually, writing for VA is also a skill...these are skills people often don't want to pay for or think about. It is not surprising that the VA ends up so bad.

But if a creator respects voice acting and the related skills that are necessary to make a VA'd game sound good...and is willing to pay for those skills the same way they'd pay for art (or should be willing to pay for good writing and programming)...then we'd have a lot better VAing around here and maybe people would be more excited about VA'd games.

[RotGtIE]

I am very all or nothing when it comes to voice acting. I'd rather read in silence than hear poorly done voice work.

The thing to consider is what causes voice acting to be lackluster. It's easy enough to blame the voice actor for phoning it in, but the voice actors themselves are constrained by their script and their director. One of the most bizarre constraints on voice acting appears in English dubs of Japanese animated series: the requirement to sync the English voice overs with the lip movements of the original Japanese animation.

I am of the opinion that voice actors require far more control than they get in order to perform properly. If live actors were treated like voice actors, having to follow the movements of puppets while being allowed no input into the script or no opportunity to direct themselves or be directed properly, then it would reflect in their performances, too. Voice actors should be permitted to exert a great deal of control over the scripts they read and their own directing. There should be constant and open coordination between the writers, directors, and actors in order to make a scene believable and sufficient in quality.

So, to answer the title question, voice acting is important enough to me that I advocate for granting a large degree of creative control to voice actors so that they can deliver a quality performance. If that cannot or will not be done, then the audience should not be insulted by half-assed work.