Commissioning Problem

[noeinan]

I have had this problem, both as someone trying to work with writers, and as an artist who has had commissioners bail on me after I've completed a decent amount of art for them. My advice is to go over terms, explicitly stating what is expected, and *most important* with a time limit on the acceptable length of time someone can be out of contact, as well as what each person's rights are if the other person drops out.

Here's an example of one I completed recently:

ASSETS

I, the artist, am responsible for providing the agreed upon art assets within a reasonable time frame, agreed upon at the time of the contract. Updates will be given on art progress at the sketch and coloring stages, with watermarks, and will be provided without watermarks after payment is received. Assets will include the previously agreed upon facial expressions and outfits.

You, the client, would be responsible for providing reference material for requested assets, as well as feedback during the sketch and coloring stages. Major line change requests would be given during the sketch phase, and any small details or color change requests during the coloring stage. In addition, the client is responsible for paying for assets individually after completion, using paypal.

COPYRIGHT

I, the artist, retain copyright to all art assets, allowing me to post them to personal art galleries, and requiring further negotiation on merchandising deals. In order to promote the game, art assets will not be released to the public until the game has been published.

You, the client, would have rights to use art assets in the visual novel "Project Name", including in-game content and advertising of the game. If you wanted to create merchandise later on, a merchandising contract would need to be completed after negotiations with me, the artist.

COMMUNICATION

I, the artist, commit to staying in contact throughout the course of this project, and provide regular updates on progress of art assets. If art assets are delayed for any reason, I will inform you, the client, about the time scale. If I have not communicated in one week, without prior notice stating I will be unavailable, and you are waiting to hear about art assets, this could be considered a break of contract.

You, the client, would commit to staying in contact through the creation of art assets, and respond with feedback as needed (within reason.) If you have not communicated in two weeks, without prior notice stating you will be unavailable, it could be considered a break of contract.

BREAKING OF CONTRACT

In the event of a break in contract, I, the artist, continue to retain copyrights to art assets. Art assets may be posted to public art galleries, even if the game is not released.

In the event of a break in contract, you, the client, would retain the right to use any art assets which have been paid for in the visual novel "Project Name", and in advertising for the game. You, the client, have the option of negotiating for access to unfinished work at reduced price (lineart, concept sketches, etc.)

I did a lot of work that I can't legally post to any of my art blogs because I signed a contract stating I wouldn't post it until after the game was over, and didn't have a "breaking contract" clause. I really, really regret it because that art will now sit there and rot, never to be seen by anyone again.

[SundownKid]

I suggest using an escrow service to ensure that you keep your money if the artist doesn't deliver. IMO it's worth it because people tend to take the money and run when they have internet anonymity.

[trooper6]

Do have any escrow services you recommend?

[SundownKid]

Do have any escrow services you recommend?

Not really, I haven't used a standalone escrow service before as I usually go through Elance, and their fees are higher than a standalone service. But, I'm assuming the principle is basically the same if you use a site like Escrow.com.

[philat]

I realize this is largely an amateur forum, but oh my god, if actual money is changing hands, write contracts, y'all. Figure out who's going to own the IP and what kind of licensed rights anyone involved will have. You don't have to hire a lawyer, but like, read nolo or something.

[BrokenAngel75]

Trooper6 is right. I did forget to mention she gave me something but four months later. This was the one that didn't give me a reply though for the longest time and I didn't know if she was still with me. Eventually I had to drop her because she wasn't reliable =(.

And maybe I will in the near future =). But even now on here I've seen a good number of reliable people. I just don't want to have to go through this whether they be writers, artists, coders etc.

The way to decrease the chance that you have to go through this is for you (and everyone else) to leave reviews of the people they commissioned. Was the person amazing? Were they communicative? Were they professional? Were they reliable? Leave a review!
Did they take the money and run? Did they deliver but four months after the deadline and with no communication in between? Leave a review!
If we all review our commissioners, then the commissioners who are reliable and professional will be rewarded and people will have more security when commissioning.

That is very true. I have even seen others who do this as well. Don't know if they're on here still, but if I see them I'll be sure to leave a comment.

[BrokenAngel75]

That's very true. Problem with her is she has already paid 500 dollars for her game =(. She told me her artist did a good job of responding and telling her what's going on, but now her won't respond often and she doesn't know if he's sticking with her.

If I've got the details right, that means your project has paid $500 and has only received a sketch and a sprite in total. It sounds to me like the problem is that you're paying way too much up front.

I would recommend paying for assets piecemeal instead of in bundles (sounds like you're trying to pay for a lot of assets all at once) and also making only partial payments (30% to 50%) before receiving any work. Usually you should be paying a small partial payment as a show of good faith on your part, but then it's time for the artist's good faith to kick in and provide first a draft for you to approve, then a finished product (watermarked) that you can pay for (then un-watermarked). Keep track of your commissions and break them down into as many smaller ones with low individual costs as you can. For illustrations specifically, try to break up the workload into its component parts (concept art/sketches, lineart, coloring) and divide the labor for them between multiple artists so that, if you should happen to lose one of them, you can replace them with someone who can fill in the component part much more easily than if they were replacing, say, an artist who was doing all the work for your sprites or whatnot. This way, you can avoid having a single point of failure and pick up where you left off with minimal losses.

You can't guarantee that you'll never get taken in by someone who doesn't follow up with you, but you can minimize the amount that these losses take from your budget.

I strongly recommend you get all the terms of your dealings in writing, including your expected contact/communication schedule (usually weekly or bi-weekly). Even an informal contract will make it clear that you and whomever you're doing business with are quite serious. It won't realistically give you any actual legal power to pursue someone who intentionally screws you over, but it will allow you to settle disputes quickly and easily with someone who is well-meaning but makes a mistake.

Oh no my friend is the one who has paid about 500 on her game. The first 300 that she put into the game she has gotten a lot back from the artist. However that was about a month and a half ago. The 200 she gave was to help the artist with school. She trusts him because he's worked very hard, but for the last month he hasn't given anything or replied to her on at least a weekly bases. This is the major problem for me, the lack of communication =(. But you give very advice that all people should follow. I'll have to send her this when I can.

[BrokenAngel75]

I would recommend paying for assets piecemeal instead of in bundles (sounds like you're trying to pay for a lot of assets all at once) and also making only partial payments (30% to 50%) before receiving any work.

This.

I strongly recommend you get all the terms of your dealings in writing, including your expected contact/communication schedule (usually weekly or bi-weekly). Even an informal contract will make it clear that you and whomever you're doing business with are quite serious. It won't realistically give you any actual legal power to pursue someone who intentionally screws you over, but it will allow you to settle disputes quickly and easily with someone who is well-meaning but makes a mistake.

And this.

I personally doubt most trustworthy artists going on commision would have issues with this, unless we're talking about deals between huge companies or something like that, with extremely defined deadlines and LOTS of money involved (way more than I'd expect to see in a indie-focused community like this).

If your artist doesn't work, you won't pay anymore. And of course, the opposite is in effect.

This can also help the artist get interested in the project. Getting the artist involved in the game in general is GOOD, and it will motivate the artist way more. But monetary compensation aaaaaaalways helps, and having to keep working for it DOES help with the artist's priorities.

Yes, that is exactly true. The best thing to do is to find an artist who will take your project seriously and want to see it come to life. Not only do it for the money.

[trooper6]

Yes, that is exactly true. The best thing to do is to find an artist who will take your project seriously and want to see it come to life. Not only do it for the money.

I don't know. I think I'd rather have an excellent, professional artist who is doing it for the money...and who therefore will do it...than an artist who is very good but is doing it for "love"--because the moment they fall out of "love" with the project...they may just split.

[BrokenAngel75]

Hmmm, I agree we need to encourage reviews/recommendations a bit more.

I understand how excruciatingly PAINFUL is the wait for assets to arrive. As days go by your mind starts to become your worst enemy: "What is he/she doing!? What's going on? Maybe this, maybe that". All that theorizing ends up totally harming one's judgement and sours things up. Like we say in spanish "uno se hace una película en la cabeza" (making a movie in the head, yeah )

Unfortunately, people are people and for A or B we all get struck by life now and then, be it stress, work overload or an unforeseen event/situation (PC exploded, robbery, you name it).

What I always find hard to swallow is the lack of communication. A "sorry, but this may take longer than expected" (something some artists have apologized for and eventually delivered) but THAT little dose of courtesy shouldn't be left aside. Don't leave me hanging, I can wait I'm an expert at waiting but don't leave me in the dark for over a month without replying. I'm/We are paying (in the case of paid work I mean) after all, so I shouldn't be forced to chase someone down, bar a friendly reminder "just in case". Sadly, Murphy's Law is always lurking.

I feel your pain though as I've been in a similar situation of lack of communication so I built Plan B just in case artists decide to drop the ball/lose motivation, which can also happen.

Another point for the paying in small chunks! Per sprite or per piece of work, 30%-50% first (or upon getting sketch/lo-res version or coloured test version) and then the rest upon having finished.

Also bear in mind artists who are students at school/university, since the exams terms are the prime/worst enemy for delivering materials and some may tell you this a little too late. Or if they have a full time job, work schedules can also prove problematic (I know this, I work full time and it does take a toll on your health/mood/will to do anything else) so I also try to understand the other side.

Not much can be done with the "took the money and ran" types other than perhaps slam them with a bad review, which can be pointless as some may resurface under a different handle. Those can't be helped and I guess one does come out stronger from such awful experiences, especially when the community is fast to spot them and warn the rest. I would rather focus on the good ones, on leaving reviews for people who are trust worthy. A seal of quality of sorts.

I agree with you 100%. That type of answer can be very vague and in truth a better explanation would help me understand it more. And as for artists in school that's why I don't really make schedules. They give me what they can do and I go with it. If they are late that's just fine, but as you said they must communicate with me so I know they are still with the project.

[BrokenAngel75]

Yes, that is exactly true. The best thing to do is to find an artist who will take your project seriously and want to see it come to life. Not only do it for the money.

I don't know. I think I'd rather have an excellent, professional artist who is doing it for the money...and who therefore will do it...than an artist who is very good but is doing it for "love"--because the moment they fall out of "love" with the project...they may just split.

That's a good point...But for me I also like having my artists opinions on the game, and it wouldn't be too fun if what we did together didn't feel like a partnership. But then again I'd rather have a professional who won't leave me hanging right in the middle of things. It's a hard think to choose in all honesty =(.

[trooper6]

That's a good point...But for me I also like having my artists opinions on the game, and it wouldn't be too fun if what we did together didn't feel like a partnership. But then again I'd rather have a professional who won't leave me hanging right in the middle of things. It's a hard think to choose in all honesty =(.

Partnership and Someone you commission are two different things and it is important that each person has the same expectations.
When I worked as a session singer, they were not paying me to have a partnership with them, they were paying me to go into the studio, sing what they gave me and leave. If they wanted me to give them feedback and ideas, then I would want a lot more money or partial ownership of the final product. In other words, if it is going to be a partnership, I want partnership benefits.

If what you want is a partner, then I think you need to advertise for that. If you just want someone to make some art for your, then advertise for that. I can imagine a bunch of people who are happy to make some art (or music, or writing, or whatever) but don't want to get into a relationship that is as time-consuming as a partnership. If you are expecting partnership levels of communication and emotional giving and they are expecting free-lance worker levels of communication...that disconnect could cause problems.

Also, I would work as a composer/coder-for-hire for a wide range of projects. I'd enter into a partnership with a much smaller number of people.

[truefaiterman]

Yes, that is exactly true. The best thing to do is to find an artist who will take your project seriously and want to see it come to life. Not only do it for the money.

I don't know. I think I'd rather have an excellent, professional artist who is doing it for the money...and who therefore will do it...than an artist who is very good but is doing it for "love"--because the moment they fall out of "love" with the project...they may just split.

Just in case, I'd like to expand a little about that point:

When I talked about involving the artist with the project, it doesn't need to be forging a partnership: it's mostly about showing the artist how ARE the story, the characters, the feelings trying to convey, or the message. Pretty much documenting him, instead of just "take these characters and make a few poses, and some expressions, and done" (I've seen a surprising amount of projects working this way, and... damn, most voice acting in Spain works with so little information, I remember a certain movie I worked on which name I still don't know. Nor the plot itself).

This also helps the artist (if is willing to learn about the project, of course): if he REALLY knows a character, he'll know what kind of expressions or body language works better, or the color palette may change if the director wants to set a certain mood. Knowledge is power, and knowing enough may just save the artist a lot of time correcting mistakes because of seer lack of understanding of the project.

[Caveat Lector]

I agree that posting a review about an artist on their recruitment topic would work greatly as well. However, I think the reason why we don't is out of a fear that we're "stirring drama" or "just being mean". It would be best to clarify that we're not attacking the person, we're criticizing the work process. You can be a good person and still make mistakes. I've been THAT shitty beta reader who abruptly dropped contact with someone because I lost my e-mail password. It happens to all of us. I've gotten a LOT better at keeping in contact now, but I have made mistakes along the way. (that reminds me, I should probably find that author and apologize to them--they might've forgotten by now, but yeah)

Clear communication is key. Be upfront about what it is you need and want in terms of communication and updates. Set deadlines, perhaps. Check in at least once a week, maybe try other social media. And also, be sure to ask "will there be a time when you're not available?" so that you know what to expect in advance.

[hiko27]

As an artist myself, wow. I've never really had the chance to steal the money I get from my commissioners, mostly because I tell them to either pay me halfway (that is, when the sketch is done), but 90% of the time, I tell them to pay me AFTER I finish and show them a preview of the artwork. Heck, I even have had commissioners bail on ME after being paid instead of the other way around. But since I'm a goody two-shoes (so much so that when I was at AX, I had the chance to keep a $20 bill someone left at the ATM, but didn't as I would have felt very guilty), I tend to remember those who disappeared, try to reach out to them and remind them of their commission. Some just say I can keep it or whatnot, but I pretty much just tell them they can commission a different character instead if they want.

Reviews would be a great way to avoid these kinds of things happening. Heck, maybe we could have a sticky thread in each forum just for reviews. Kind of like eBay where you HAVE to have great reviews in order to do business there, but since this is an amateur forum and where posting a review takes more time rather than just using a star rating, lesser chance of users just posting unhonest, or forced reviews. Some reviews may be mean, but if they are (like if someone bailed on you), you can prevent other users from commissioning that specific person. I think being able to contribute towards the community as a whole instead of protecting an artist's feelings (and being viewed as a meanie) is more worth it. Well, that's how I see it. And ofc, the reviews should be about the service, not about the quality of the art (unless you know, the art is 100% different from their samples, then red flags about stealing).

I've never had the opportunity to work with artists (since I'm an artist), neither have I commissioned writers, or sound engineers or voice actors, but in general, when working with others, having a good relationship is recommended. I try to be casual with my commissioners and people I'm collaborating with, because I'll be working with them, talking to them, asking questions about the commission, and all that stuff. You want it so that they'd be more comfortable with you, because if they are, they'd be more inclined to tell you if they can't do it or something else (like if they have something going on in their lives that prevents them from finishing the commission), because they trust you.

And as mentioned, clear communication. Lay down the details beforehand, ask for prices, and never ever pay the whole goddamn thing before it's actually finished (unless you've commissioned that person so many times and they've delivered). It's all about trust really. You don't know them personally, and if this is your first time commissioning them, be very wary as you're now dealing with money, no matter how small it is. Also, observe how fast they reply to your PMs, or messages on Skype, as well as how active they are on the forums. If there's a pattern of them just appearing for a few days then leaving for a year, chances are, they won't finish your commission. For artists, it's best to look at their other social media sites as well. If they're posting, you bet they're not having a midlife crisis at this point, and they're just avoiding you. Though for some people (aka me), they probably just forgot to reply to your PMs... I'm pretty sure I'm the only artist that does that orz.

And along with clear communication, if you want to get updates on an interval, tell them at the beginning. Commissioners don't usually tell me that (even though some prefer it), but I offer it to them if they give me a timeline for their project. If you want or need a deadline, or interval update, tell them. Just tell them everything you want and need at the beginning, so there won't be any misunderstandings later on. You don't want any misunderstandings, especially with price. It could screw up your budget, especially when the artwork is finished and delivered. Contracts would be great, but PMs and Skype messages usually do it for me in case of misunderstandings.

As for artists disappearing on you, the fault nor does the responsibility fall onto your shoulders, but the artist. It's their responsibility to tell you if they're super busy, or if they won't be around for a while, unless you told them, "Take your time," because most of the time, the artist WILL take their sweet ass time on that (I'm guilty of this, but not as much). But as mentioned above, they'd be more comfortable telling you bad news if they trust you more (or see you're nice and won't go ballistic on them if they drop the project). For me, I usually let commissioners know, especially if they have a deadline, I might not be able to finish on deadline. Or that I sometimes don't reply asap. If the artist warns you of these things, you know they're going to be better than those artists you've worked with in the past.

Pretty much, if you're going to commission someone, especially if you're gonna commission them for a whole lot of money, do your research on them. Be paranoid. Ask all the questions you have in your head beforehand, lay down all the details (the scope of their work, the budget you have, the story, the pay, if they can share their opinions, if you want weekly updates, deadlines, project timeline) and ofc, keep them up to date with things about the project. I personally like it when commissioners ask me questions about commissioning me because it shows they're serious, but usually, it's me asking the commissioner. It really depends on the artist, but ask the questions you want to ask, and the artist might ask questions of you that they'll need before they decide to work on this. Heck, the more questions they ask, I think, the better, because they're actually taking this commission into mind, to see if they'll be able to do it.

That's for commissioning artists though. It's different when it comes to working with artists for free. Notice the difference I used? When you're commissioning artists, you're slightly above them in terms of status. I mean, you're paying them, so they need to be on top of it. It's more serious, but if you're working with an artist for free, you're working WITH them. They don't owe you anything, they don't HAVE to owe you anything unless you're paying them later as thanks. And no, offering credit is not payment, nor does free services either. Credit is a must if they're working with you, and free services is pretty much skill trade. For me, if I'm going to be working on something for free, I prefer to have a say in the whole development. We're still people, so treating them like partners would get you more brownie points, as well as maybe a new artist friend you can collaborate with more in the future. Another is usually, the best artworks (well, imo that is) always happen when artists are very motivated. Don't force them to draw if they're not motivated, it'll be frustrating to them. Let them take their time. Unless you have a deadline, and if you do, tell them before partnering with them, and please be sure of this. They're taking their time working on art for your game on their free time. Free time they could be using to improve their skills, or working on commissions. I'm not saying you have to kiss the ground they're walking on, but at least be understanding that you're not bringing much to the table so you gotta be reasonable.

The other points I mentioned for commissioning artists still apply here. Clear communication, befriend and treat them as an equal, all that jazz.

Sorry for the really long ass post.