Commissioning Problem

[BrokenAngel75]

After talking to my friend, I came to realize just how commissioning can go wrong. She's been having so much trouble finding a competent artist and I know how that feels. For us it's art, but for others it could be writers, coders, or musicians. Here is some info on my story though and what I've experienced with commissioning.


At first I was looking for an artist to work for free. First one I found was excited to work with me and I her. She even did an amazing sketch of my character and I was even going to help her with her own Vn. Sadly that sketch would be the last thing I would see from her and even when I had her Skype she would rarely be on. Soon she just stopped talking to me all together and left me hanging with a game where it was very hard to find another artist. Eventually I began to look again and soon found another artist who was willing to work for free. We got along well and for most of the summer we talked about Vn's. We really had good chemistry. Sadly she disappeared on me as well for about month without any explanation. I often sent emails but she never replied. Now with her I finally got a reply and realized she had depression. I was understanding and told her she didn't have to rush the drawing. For a while she kept in contact with me, but then left me again without a single word.

My problem with these two wasn't that they stopped, but rather that they didn't tell me they couldn't do it. I literally waited for four month for both of them replying kindly and they didn't respond. If they couldn't do the game that was fine, but I wish they had told me instead of making me wait like an idiot for something that wouldn't come.


After that I took a break and then decided to start paying an artist. I thought this would be better since the artists on here were wanting work and I knew they would be competent. Sadly this wasn't the case for me. The firs artist I paid, who actually has a thread, kept in contact with me for a few days. I gave her what she needed to know and she said she would be done with the sketch soon. Well I waited a week and nothing, so I messaged her. She didn't respond. Two weeks later I did the same thing, once again no response. A month later I finally asked her if she was too busy with other things or having any problems, and once again she didn't respond. Eventually after two months I gave up. She didn't reply at all to me and just took my money. That made me very upset, but I still went looking for someone else.

And so I did. Found another artist and she actually gave me the first sprite. Things were going well for a while, but even she stopped talking to me even when I had paid for another sprite. I emailed her every other week and did the same thing like with the first one. I even, once again, asked if things were hectic for her. Sadly she didn't respond to that either, so once again I had to drop another artist.


So this is my back story with commissioning. As you can see it hasn't been very fun. Now I understand that people have things happen and life can get difficult. If things take time that's okay with me. One artist I have now takes a month, but that's okay because he keeps in contact with me and tells me if there is going to be a delay. If he has to stop the project all together then I know he'll tell me then and there and won't make me wait like a fool for some kind of reply.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but my friend is actually going through this and she's upset because her artist won't even reply to her messages. All she wants to know is if he can do the game or if he's too busy. That's it.

I know I'll likely get backlash for writing this, but it's really tiring going through this process when you're paying for things. I see those I work with as my partners and all I ask is that they just communicate with me. It seriously isn't cool leaving a person with no explanation and making them wait without for months on end. And yes, I understand this happens with artists as well who are working for someone and they to shouldn't have to go through this process. Whether you're an artist, writer, or coder you have to be honest with those you work with and tell them if you can't work on the game or if things take time. Communication is one of the major things you need when working together.

[trooper6]

If you paid someone and they took your money and didn't respond...I think you should leave a review to that effect on their recruitment thread. I certainly would want to know before I commissioned someone. People leave positive reviews. But if the Recruitment thread is going to be maximally useful, people should leave honest reviews. And if an artist/writer/etc is going to take your money and ghost...that should be left as a review as well.

Perhaps other advice might be to ask for references? And do the half up front half on completion payment option?

[xPerfectSuicide]

When a job is free indeed there are many things that interfere with the interest of average creator. Eventually, disposition, wanting to do the work, should be a very positive person and determined to work to the end, however, when an artist receives money has the duty and responsibility to finish the job so it costs him his soul.

Not all artists are like that, you know, maybe you only had bad luck, It would be a good idea to start harassing the personal lives of the artists that you hire. (just kidding) but, even if it is a free work, I think they should have at least some responsibility for give his word, do not you think?

[trooper6]

Oh, I wanted to add that I would expect free artists to flake...they aren't getting paid. It would be nice if they communicated, if they did what they said they'd do, but they aren't getting paid a professional amount of money, so I'm not going to be surprised if they don't behave professionally.

[firecat]

always have a plan for you and the artist, often times they expect you to plan a date on when a update is needed. just waiting is never a good idea, a week or 3 days is a whole lot of time to give a update. if they don't reply within the time then you have to move on, its hard yes but as you know you cant help someone who went through things in life. thats not bad luck its unorganized that is the problem.

[sasquatchii]

That sounds really awful, I'm so sorry that that has been your experience

Trooper6 is right. If someone took your money and ran, then it's time to let everyone in the thread know that that artist isn't reliable or trustworthy. You're not being mean by doing that, just honest.

Are you on twitter? I recommend getting on twitter and making connections there, there are a ton of VN artists on there that are awesome and professional.

Asking around will also really help. Even complete strangers will want to help you if they know someone who did great work for them in the past. You could also ask artists you're considering for references!!

[BrokenAngel75]

When a job is free indeed there are many things that interfere with the interest of average creator. Eventually, disposition, wanting to do the work, should be a very positive person and determined to work to the end, however, when an artist receives money has the duty and responsibility to finish the job so it costs him his soul.

Not all artists are like that, you know, maybe you only had bad luck, It would be a good idea to start harassing the personal lives of the artists that you hire. (just kidding) but, even if it is a free work, I think they should have at least some responsibility for give his word, do not you think?

That is very true. It's just it's happened quite a bit in the past and in truth I'm only upset about the lack of communication. I really on want a single weekly update at most even if nothing got done. It just helps me know they're still with me =(. And you're right. No matter role a person has, when you're paid you have to take responsibility for what you do.

[BrokenAngel75]

Oh, I wanted to add that I would expect free artists to flake...they aren't getting paid. It would be nice if they communicated, if they did what they said they'd do, but they aren't getting paid a professional amount of money, so I'm not going to be surprised if they don't behave professionally.

You are very right. Now not all free artists flake, but it's happened quite a bit to not only me. Writers do it to. I'm okay if people who do it for free stop because Vn's are just a hobby, but they really need to tell that to the person they were helping.


And maybe I will write a review. Oh wait, I forgot to mention. The person did give me something like four months later, but I just told them I couldn't work with them. They were very unreliable.

[BrokenAngel75]

always have a plan for you and the artist, often times they expect you to plan a date on when a update is needed. just waiting is never a good idea, a week or 3 days is a whole lot of time to give a update. if they don't reply within the time then you have to move on, its hard yes but as you know you cant help someone who went through things in life. that's not bad luck its unorganized that is the problem.

That's very true. Problem with her is she has already paid 500 dollars for her game =(. She told me her artist did a good job of responding and telling her what's going on, but now her won't respond often and she doesn't know if he's sticking with her.

[sasquatchii]

always have a plan for you and the artist, often times they expect you to plan a date on when a update is needed. just waiting is never a good idea.

I second this! When working with artists & creative types, it's super helpful to have a loose outline in place with realistic deadlines.

As a working designer, I've had clients that would sometimes be too lax saying things like " there are no deadlines! Just have it done asap." That's not really helpful because I need to be able to prioritize.

Others would or have insanely unrealistic deadlines (because they underestimate or don't realize that, yes, it takes hours and days and even weeks to design a logo/website/etc).

Generally, if you don't provide these things from the get-go, a professional will ask you about the and work with you to create a set of realistic deadlines for each deliverable. If you're not realistic about you're expectations a good artist will let you know when & why they need more time.

I think the best advice for setting deadlines would be to be flexible. If your artiist tells you he needs 50 hours for something, give him 50 hours. If you cut the time he needs in half you're going to end up with really crappy work and ultimately you'll be unsatisfied and frustrated (as will the artist).

And Brokenangel75, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm accusing you of these things!! I'm definitely not. From your post you seem like a reasonable and kind person. I'm just speaking from experience & referencing some nightmare-ish situations I've dealt with.

[BrokenAngel75]

That sounds really awful, I'm so sorry that that has been your experience

Trooper6 is right. If someone took your money and ran, then it's time to let everyone in the thread know that that artist isn't reliable or trustworthy. You're not being mean by doing that, just honest.

Are you on twitter? I recommend getting on twitter and making connections there, there are a ton of VN artists on there that are awesome and professional.

Asking around will also really help. Even complete strangers will want to help you if they know someone who did great work for them in the past. You could also ask artists you're considering for references!!

Trooper6 is right. I did forget to mention she gave me something but four months later. This was the one that didn't give me a reply though for the longest time and I didn't know if she was still with me. Eventually I had to drop her because she wasn't reliable =(.

And maybe I will in the near future =). But even now on here I've seen a good number of reliable people. I just don't want to have to go through this whether they be writers, artists, coders etc.

[trooper6]

Trooper6 is right. I did forget to mention she gave me something but four months later. This was the one that didn't give me a reply though for the longest time and I didn't know if she was still with me. Eventually I had to drop her because she wasn't reliable =(.

And maybe I will in the near future =). But even now on here I've seen a good number of reliable people. I just don't want to have to go through this whether they be writers, artists, coders etc.

The way to decrease the chance that you have to go through this is for you (and everyone else) to leave reviews of the people they commissioned. Was the person amazing? Were they communicative? Were they professional? Were they reliable? Leave a review!
Did they take the money and run? Did they deliver but four months after the deadline and with no communication in between? Leave a review!
If we all review our commissioners, then the commissioners who are reliable and professional will be rewarded and people will have more security when commissioning.

[RotGtIE]

That's very true. Problem with her is she has already paid 500 dollars for her game =(. She told me her artist did a good job of responding and telling her what's going on, but now her won't respond often and she doesn't know if he's sticking with her.

If I've got the details right, that means your project has paid $500 and has only received a sketch and a sprite in total. It sounds to me like the problem is that you're paying way too much up front.

I would recommend paying for assets piecemeal instead of in bundles (sounds like you're trying to pay for a lot of assets all at once) and also making only partial payments (30% to 50%) before receiving any work. Usually you should be paying a small partial payment as a show of good faith on your part, but then it's time for the artist's good faith to kick in and provide first a draft for you to approve, then a finished product (watermarked) that you can pay for (then un-watermarked). Keep track of your commissions and break them down into as many smaller ones with low individual costs as you can. For illustrations specifically, try to break up the workload into its component parts (concept art/sketches, lineart, coloring) and divide the labor for them between multiple artists so that, if you should happen to lose one of them, you can replace them with someone who can fill in the component part much more easily than if they were replacing, say, an artist who was doing all the work for your sprites or whatnot. This way, you can avoid having a single point of failure and pick up where you left off with minimal losses.

You can't guarantee that you'll never get taken in by someone who doesn't follow up with you, but you can minimize the amount that these losses take from your budget.

I strongly recommend you get all the terms of your dealings in writing, including your expected contact/communication schedule (usually weekly or bi-weekly). Even an informal contract will make it clear that you and whomever you're doing business with are quite serious. It won't realistically give you any actual legal power to pursue someone who intentionally screws you over, but it will allow you to settle disputes quickly and easily with someone who is well-meaning but makes a mistake.

[truefaiterman]

I would recommend paying for assets piecemeal instead of in bundles (sounds like you're trying to pay for a lot of assets all at once) and also making only partial payments (30% to 50%) before receiving any work.

This.

I strongly recommend you get all the terms of your dealings in writing, including your expected contact/communication schedule (usually weekly or bi-weekly). Even an informal contract will make it clear that you and whomever you're doing business with are quite serious. It won't realistically give you any actual legal power to pursue someone who intentionally screws you over, but it will allow you to settle disputes quickly and easily with someone who is well-meaning but makes a mistake.

And this.

I personally doubt most trustworthy artists going on commision would have issues with this, unless we're talking about deals between huge companies or something like that, with extremely defined deadlines and LOTS of money involved (way more than I'd expect to see in a indie-focused community like this).

If your artist doesn't work, you won't pay anymore. And of course, the opposite is in effect.

This can also help the artist get interested in the project. Getting the artist involved in the game in general is GOOD, and it will motivate the artist way more. But monetary compensation aaaaaaalways helps, and having to keep working for it DOES help with the artist's priorities.

[AlphaProspector]

Hmmm, I agree we need to encourage reviews/recommendations a bit more.

I understand how excruciatingly PAINFUL is the wait for assets to arrive. As days go by your mind starts to become your worst enemy: "What is he/she doing!? What's going on? Maybe this, maybe that". All that theorizing ends up totally harming one's judgement and sours things up. Like we say in spanish "uno se hace una película en la cabeza" (making a movie in the head, yeah )

Unfortunately, people are people and for A or B we all get struck by life now and then, be it stress, work overload or an unforeseen event/situation (PC exploded, robbery, you name it).

What I always find hard to swallow is the lack of communication. A "sorry, but this may take longer than expected" (something some artists have apologized for and eventually delivered) but THAT little dose of courtesy shouldn't be left aside. Don't leave me hanging, I can wait I'm an expert at waiting but don't leave me in the dark for over a month without replying. I'm/We are paying (in the case of paid work I mean) after all, so I shouldn't be forced to chase someone down, bar a friendly reminder "just in case". Sadly, Murphy's Law is always lurking.

I feel your pain though as I've been in a similar situation of lack of communication so I built Plan B just in case artists decide to drop the ball/lose motivation, which can also happen.

Another point for the paying in small chunks! Per sprite or per piece of work, 30%-50% first (or upon getting sketch/lo-res version or coloured test version) and then the rest upon having finished.

Also bear in mind artists who are students at school/university, since the exams terms are the prime/worst enemy for delivering materials and some may tell you this a little too late. Or if they have a full time job, work schedules can also prove problematic (I know this, I work full time and it does take a toll on your health/mood/will to do anything else) so I also try to understand the other side.

Not much can be done with the "took the money and ran" types other than perhaps slam them with a bad review, which can be pointless as some may resurface under a different handle. Those can't be helped and I guess one does come out stronger from such awful experiences, especially when the community is fast to spot them and warn the rest. I would rather focus on the good ones, on leaving reviews for people who are trust worthy. A seal of quality of sorts.