Are visual novels mostly aimed for males?

[papillon]

I might suggest that you make an option for male readers to filter out first person stuff that would make it too personal.

.... If all the male-perspective games offered this to make it easier on the female readership, this would be a fair request. As it is, I think this would be unfairly compromising the female-perspective game.

Of course, if you have a story that can be written with a choice of female or male character, that can be cool.

[vlint]

.... If all the male-perspective games offered this to make it easier on the female readership, this would be a fair request. As it is, I think this would be unfairly compromising the female-perspective game.

I was only referring to the male perspective since that was what I thought the person who started this thread was talking about to begin with. However, I agree with you that it would be unfair to female readers if it was only done for the benefit of males. I do agree that it should be done for the female perspective, too (just as much as it should be for the male).

However, I'm not one to discourage a good thing, even if everyone doesn't get it all at once. If it was only done for the female benefit, sure I'd be extremely tempted to be envious, but I'd be glad for them, at least. (Though I would look on it as a large neusance if it became a cultural thing where it was looked on as a feminine trait for visual novels, and thus making it never/rarely come to the male perspective).

You make several good points, even without saying them all.

To make things easier, we could forget writing the viewpoints of both genders and consider again adding both first and third person perspectives for the same visual novel. This way is entirely fair to both parties, though I'm not sure if everyone agrees with me that a third person perspective makes such a visual novel easier for the other gender to handle (I would think so, but you never know, and many people might form opinoins without trying it, or observing, first).

For the sake of argument, though, how would you tell which gender the writer was catering to, since both perspectives would be there? Well, you could tell if it was for one which had been released previous to this.

Personally, though, I think it would be more agreeable to write from the female perspective than to read it (since I would be creativing the people, rather than simply observing them intimately: to me, if I was writing the story, I would think of the characters more as my children than role-models/molds for how I might think/feel/be). I'm kind of doing a dual-perspective visual novel now (though it is third person, anyway); I don't really have a preference for which perspective I write, actually (but then I'm not 'very' practiced in the art of romance-writing; I'm mostly into fantasy, so far).

Non-romance female perspectives don't bother me at all (I like them quite a bit, actually) - nor do mild-romance female perspectives. It's just when the writer gets all into their deepest darkest (i.e. flowery and immodest/indecent) desires for the male characters that it gets uncomfortable. Well, I guess the visual novel I cited earlier didn't really have any of that, and it was still uncomfortable. I think it's just the first person perspective. It affects me in ways I never thought books would (but then, these aren't exactly the same as normal books) - thankfully, that can be good, too, and so I think it should be utilized in many new ways not yet discussed here.

Well, I hope I said something useful. Thanks for the reply. I really didn't mean to be unfair (I was just trying to make suggestions pertaining to the original question as it was asked; had I more time, or been less tired, I may have addressed this issue as well).

So in summary, I think you're right. And, I think other things should be considered (such as the first and third person thing).

[azureXtwilight]

In my opinion, girls are starting to like VN too,but coz girls mastly didn't like games yeah? I'm a girl too, in fact I'm making one! Hi! I'm AzureXtwilight and to be honest, I'm still 14

[Asceai]

I disagree about the point that reading from a female perspective could make a male reader uncomfortable. However, I'm afraid the only eroge I've played with a female protagonist is still MOON. =p

It's just when the writer gets all into their deepest darkest (i.e. flowery and immodest/indecent) desires for the male characters that it gets uncomfortable.

In MOON. there's a machine called "ELPOD" that is used for nurturing psychic potential (there's a similar machine, "MINMES", for looking into the past) Essentially, what you get is Ikumi's (that's the protagonist of the game, by the way) 'reflection' showing the player extremely embarrassing/shameful moments from Ikumi's (supposed) past. One scene in particular does sorta do what you're mentioning here, and that whole scene is extremely uncomfortable. I think it would be for anyone, though, not just male readers. =p Making it third person would not help.

However, I think it's an important part of the game, and something that adds to the atmosphere. I don't think the player has to be able to relate to the protagonist at all, so I don't see the value in switching first and third person.

In fact, I find reading third person to be extremely awkward. Thankfully there aren't many VNs like this.

[vlint]

I disagree about the point that reading from a female perspective could make a male reader uncomfortable. However, I'm afraid the only eroge I've played with a female protagonist is still MOON. =p

I've never read/played any eroge, so I won't comment there. I was talking about just plain romance.

I assume you mean most male readers: in my experience, anything 'can' make the right person uncomfortable (whether they're male or not), even without sound reason, but that's not really important to what you're talking about—sorry.

However, I think it's an important part of the game, and something that adds to the atmosphere.

Yeah, the first person definitely adds to the atmosphere. It's usually very nice, for most purposes. In a normal novel, though, I don't really like the first person so much; in visual novels, it's great, however.

I don't think the player has to be able to relate to the protagonist at all, so I don't see the value in switching first and third person.

I don't think they have to relate at all, either; and I didn't before. That's not why I suggested the third person view. I suggested the third person view, because it's less like you're actually doing it that way (i.e. characters don't address the main character as 'you' and such, which 'can'—not necessarily 'will'—have a profound psychological effect on people who aren't thinking abstractly—quite abstractly—about the word at the time, and since characters are looking in your direction, it also adds to this impression).

In fact, I find reading third person to be extremely awkward.

In my opinion, it's probably because most people write third person visual novels like first person visual novels. They should be inherently different in other ways than the text; to mention one, for instance, generally, the characters should not be looking at 'you', and the main character should always have a face; more than one character should be on the screen at the same time. These are my thoughts, but you may differ in yours. Of course, this difference in the images would make my earlier suggestion much less practical (about making first and third persons).

[Asceai]

Well, to be honest, >95% of the visual novels I play _are_ eroge. That's just how the market works, for the most part, and I don't play many noncommercial VNs any more.

[akizakura]

Interesting topic.

I think that most commercial VNs are aimed at males, the female/otome market seems pretty small in comparison and what games there are seem mostly reverse harem style, as to where a lot of the VNs for males have progressed from just dating-sims/renai into having an overaching plot that can handle itself. Heck, a lot of the eroge lose their ero content for console release and anime and are still pretty popular because the male VN market has branched out and diversified enough to require new things/plot devices/genres to keep it interesting. I think as girls get more into VNs and begin to demand more than just a dating sim for girls, we'll get stories like Air and F/SN targetted for females (not that there aren't a lot of female fans for these franchises already, just an example)

And all these indie female VN writers definitely don't hurt.

I just found out the other day that Itaru from Key is a girl. I know it's shallow, but my reaction was basically as shocked as I was when I first found out the Air anime was based on an eroge. I think that's really interesting, dunno why, but just kinda surprised me.

[azureXtwilight]

Yes, it does.... But new vn's and simdate (or otome games) like tokimeki memorial girl side or neo angelique like that are gettin' more this time, yeah...
But as long as we enjoy the game, it doesn't matter wether it's for males or not. Games are universal, love is too...