The most Important thing in the game.....

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azureXtwilight
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Re: 64% graphics vs 36% story

#46 Post by azureXtwilight »

Aiee....!!!
Visual peoples!
I agree!
Mediocre graphic...s
Everyone has their own opinion about graphics, you know!
How about yours?
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#47 Post by Ukio »

azureXtwilight wrote:
Jake wrote:
Ukio wrote: Visual novels hare VISUAL novels!
One could equally say "Visual novels are visual NOVELS! ;-)
But I agree both....
Okay, graphics doesn't matter, really, but what Ukio said about waiting for 300 sentences to the next image is sucks!
Lol
To me still, storyline rules in VN!
Yes... I understand your point... I mean, I play VNs to play something diferent... I don't like Quake-like games... (well... just Manga Fighter.. LOL) I read a loot of books... and when I play japanese VNs, I never see poor graphics... or poor soundtracks... I know, Japan have a really big industry related to this games, and we, in America, don't. But I think that we need to make our best when we make our games...
I repeat... If I want just text, I play IF (interactive Fiction). This games have an incredible quality of plot (just like a very good book) :D
I was chatting with a friend about historietas (or comics, as nort americans say), and we say that comics are a perfect mix of drawings and literature. Of course this not include super heroes comics... You need to read Breccia's historietas or similar authors to understand my point (japanese are included... yes, they are incredibles... and France and...LOL). Well, finally, I come to a simply conclusion about all this... VNs are like good historietas (comics, mangas, etc.). VNs are the perfect mix of graphics and texts (and sound...). simply... but true... (I think..) :mrgreen:
Last edited by Ukio on Tue May 06, 2008 2:09 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#48 Post by Ukio »

Jake wrote:
Ukio wrote: Visual novels hare VISUAL novels!
One could equally say "Visual novels are visual NOVELS! ;-)
:D yes... that's true my friend... LOL :wink:
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#49 Post by PyTom »

Ukio wrote:Well, finally, I come to a simply conclusion about all this... VNs are like good historietas (comics, mangas, etc.). VNs are the perfect mix of graphics and texts (and sound...). simply... but true... (I think..) :mrgreen:
I've thought, for a long time now, that making visual novels requires a set of skills similar to those required to create comics*. For example, both require the ability to write a story, and both require the ability to draw images. Now, there are some differences: visual novels require fewer but higher-quality drawings, and also music and scripting skills. But I suspect crossing over from one world to the other is pretty easy, and there seem to be a number of people here who came in from the comics world.

Part of the motivation for making Ren'Py was to reduce the skill set required to make a visual novel from writer-artist-programmer (very rare) to writer-artist (merely uncommon).

* Using comics in a broad sense that includes Manga, Manhwa, Manhua, etc... as I don't see a big difference between the various forms.
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#50 Post by luminarious »

Ukio wrote:I was chatting with a friend about historietas (or comics, as nort americans say), and we say that comics are a perfect mix of drawings and literature. Of course this not include super heroes comics... You need to read Breccia's historietas or similar authors to understand (japanese are included... yes, they are incredibles... and France and...LOL). Well, finally, I come to a simply conclusion about all this... VNs are like good historietas (comics, mangas, etc.). VNs are the perfect mix of graphics and texts (and sound...). simply... but true... (I think..) :mrgreen:
I came to a similar conclusin the other day. That while VN-s may lack the portability of comic books, the possibility of changing the outcome of the story makes them a lot more enjoyable. Also, comic books have really lousy soundtracks.. :P

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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#51 Post by Ukio »

azureXtwilight wrote: Not everyone can draw magnificently, so medium-and semi-low quality graphics are okay for me.
I agree with you here... We can draw that we can draw... low quality graphics are okay for some people... I can undestand this for amateur games... Like my never-end proyect... LOL
But I found some people on The Net selling games with absolutely poor graphics and stuff... with this games I don't agree...
Some people like to draw manga, but don't like to draw... I mean, if people like to draw manga, FIRST they will need to learn to draw... you know... anatomy study, perspective, color composition, etc. In most of the cases, they are like doctors without known about medicine... :oops:
To be a good artist, one need to know a little more that the last anime in vogue...
Again... is just MY OPINION. I'm not trying to offend any people here... I just say that the ART is a more serious thing... I'm drawing since I have 5 years old... (I'm 31) I end my studies in Fine Arts here... and... with all that years of practice, I cannot draw like that Masters (put here the name you want)... In fact, I'm not really good... Maybe for this last point, I can understand poor graphics... Because I produce poor graphics too!! LOL :oops:
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#52 Post by Ukio »

PyTom wrote:
Ukio wrote:(...)Using comics in a broad sense that includes Manga, Manhwa, Manhua, etc... as I don't see a big difference between the various forms.
Maybe, there are some differences... just maybe...
Manga use B&W style commonly (well.. not always) but I see that manhua had realistic drawings with details resembling real people (uncommon in manga... i think...) with more color.
The Argentine comic, have a close relation with literature (like other countries and styles)... it's common to find titles from literature autors like Jorge Luis Borges. In the Argentine comic you cannot see super-heroes... (with a little exceptions but it's not common... in fact some purists of the historieta hate the super-heroes styles...)
If you take Spanish comics, you have other style... they call this comics "tebeos" and have more focus in comical or adventure plots with caricaturesques drawing in the first case, like north american comic-strips.
I'm not an otaku... I'm just entering in the Manga world... so maybe I'm wrong... You have athorisation to kick my head if I'm too ignorant LOL :D
But finally.. yes... you are absolutely right... not too much differences between the various forms... just a style thing... :D
PD: What about a VN with the Bande dessinée style? :D LOL
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#53 Post by Ukio »

luminarious wrote:(...)Also, comic books have really lousy soundtracks.. :P
That's absolutly true! :D
Well... actually, I have some musical books... LOL :P
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#54 Post by azureXtwilight »

I wonder, just wondering...
Some games really have good art, but the story really sucks, if you know what I mean.
Graphics really is important my friends, with a bad quality story, visual novels.... are..... visual only, NOT a novel.
I myself is more a text person... LoL!
Even with a game that has a really stupid images, (like child's scratch), there's something I want to check on before playing...
1. The size, (hey I really HAVE a low connection! SUCKS! :cry: )
2. The synopsis (We all do!), btw if the game is like... Y'know...
Copying and so on, I won't play it. I also like a game which really has a unique concept. And in my own favorable, GXB games, how odd they may seem, I'LL PLAY IT!
3. Hentai
In my age, I can't play it yet.
If I had grown up, I'll check if they have a cool story or not.

pSST... Hey, Ukio-san, is that avatar your drawing?
If it IS, you're really cool!
Don't say you produce bad graphics! ^_^
Last edited by azureXtwilight on Fri May 09, 2008 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#55 Post by LVUER »

PyTom wrote:
Ukio wrote:Well, finally, I come to a simply conclusion about all this... VNs are like good historietas (comics, mangas, etc.). VNs are the perfect mix of graphics and texts (and sound...). simply... but true... (I think..) :mrgreen:
I've thought, for a long time now, that making visual novels requires a set of skills similar to those required to create comics*. For example, both require the ability to write a story, and both require the ability to draw images. Now, there are some differences: visual novels require fewer but higher-quality drawings, and also music and scripting skills. But I suspect crossing over from one world to the other is pretty easy, and there seem to be a number of people here who came in from the comics world.

Part of the motivation for making Ren'Py was to reduce the skill set required to make a visual novel from writer-artist-programmer (very rare) to writer-artist (merely uncommon).

* Using comics in a broad sense that includes Manga, Manhwa, Manhua, etc... as I don't see a big difference between the various forms.
Indeed, may be that's why I'm interested in VN, since making manga is my passion (aside from I love VN in the first place). But my fault is I never learn how to coloring things. My though was coloring is not necessary for drawing manga (since it's B&W), now I really regret it.

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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#56 Post by azureXtwilight »

I myself don't color a lot!
I always draw in black-and-white drawing with ink or pencil and give it shading and effects, and so on via black-and-white!
I learn alone, without no one teaching me, because when I was 3 I thought, wow,drawing comics are cool, and so there goes...
I'm still 14, so it has LOTS of lack!

So I try to cover the drawing lack by using (hopefully) good stories! YAY!
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#57 Post by luminarious »

When I was 3 I don't even remember thinking.. :P

I learnt to read when I was 4 though. I started drawing when I was 15, so six years now.. I have some pictures up at http://hardik.deviantart.com

I'm now tryng to learn vector art as well and it's a lot more difficult than I anticipated. Maybe I should just learn some patience.. :P

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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#58 Post by azureXtwilight »

LoLi!

I was able to read before my four, my mom always said.
Drawing is more like a place where I can dump my sadness...

...Okay, to bring the topic back, what kind of story sucks to you all?
I'm curios!
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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#59 Post by honoreixix »

one that isn't orignal...

one that has no plot...

one that has a very irritatingly ridiculous plot...

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Re: The most Important thing in the game.....

#60 Post by LVUER »

The first and foremost, the story that is not original. It's alright to be similar but no plagiarism. And not admitting it only make me hate it more.

Second, the story that have sad ending, or even tragic/brutal ending for the protagonist. I mean real life is already hard, don't add them to the story. Kill-them-all ending is included. Bitter-sweet is still alright, but I really prefer an happy ending!

Third, the story that has no consistency. I mean the story that has low suspension of disbelief things. The story makes you wonder, wait, how that could happen, why he didn't do that? Etc.

Last but not the last, in the tier of the third, the story that so ridiculous that makes me want to throw up when watching it. Excel Saga is one prime example.

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