The most Important thing in the game.....

[Wintermoon]

The story I hate most is the boring "slice of life" where nothing interesting happens. I can tolerate ridiculous plots, I can tolerate stupid plots, I can tolerate old rehashed plot, I can even tolerate unrelated sequences of events that never resolve, but give me something worth paying attention to.

[eezergoode]

More than just a good story, I think a good VN needs good character development. I want characters I can relate to, or become attached to. Good graphics are nice, great graphics are better,but in all honesty, it's one of the least important aspects to me. Oh course, if there were two versions of a game, one with good graphics and one with crappy graphics, I would take the first. But I would rather play a great story with mediocre graphics than a crap story with great graphics.

[azureXtwilight]

@Wintermoon : I've never seen a story like that, example?

@LVUER : Really? But sometimes I prefer sad endings (but not brutal!). Sometimes that ending is the best XD

[Karasu_Noir]

Let's see....
For me personally, it's the feel.
If one of them didn't match the feel, bam, it sucks.
Like the song supposed to be sad, but it's groovy.
Other, the character is supposed to be sad in the condition, but the images shows he's happy.
...And storyline.
I agree with azureXtwilight (phew hard to write) about sad endings. Sometimes sad endings are the best, sometimes I can't stand too romantic events.

[azureXtwilight]

....I'm starting to think that.....
You're a scary person (sorry)
I love romantic events, but not brutal (for a true ending).
I've never seen a game like that, where the song don't match.

[Wintermoon]

@Wintermoon : I've never seen a story like that, example?

I consider The Catcher in the Rye a prime example of a boring story where nothing happens.

[LVUER]

Yokohoma Kaidashi Kikou (manga) tell us about a slice of life of an android "Alpha" that works in Cafe Alpha. It has no conflict, nothing dramatic, no big problem. Just a daily life of Alpha and people around her.

I enjoy it though. It gives me sense of calmness and make me forget the harsh of reality.

Btw, this manga features lots of sceneries. Whole two pages could be filled with just scenery. So it is a good reference for you who want to practice drawing scenery (like me).

[azureXtwilight]

I see, a story about daily lives is nice, it's very NEAR to reality.
And that's more like me, eheheh.

[bowling pin]

Alright, let's see if I can write anything of substance.

I think you're doomed if you begin looking at a visual novel or any other work of art as just a sum of its parts. As an author, you shouldn't try to compensate for a weak element in your game (for example, the artwork) by crafting a better story, selecting better music, etc. You really need to bring your A-game out for each element you put in. If you're weak in an area of production, that's why you should collaborate with someone else who's skilled in that department, like art or music, and try to learn from them.

Of course, you should also make sure that your scenario, your art, your music, and your gameplay (should your VN incorporate it) all compliment each other nicely. If you have a buddy who can compose some awesome 80's power ballads but you want to make a very somber visual novel, then maybe you shouldn't add his music?

Good luck to everyone who's still struggling with their projects. And hey, it's the internet. You're bound to meet the right partner, or learn the skills you need eventually.

[Jake]

I think you're doomed if you begin looking at a visual novel or any other work of art as just a sum of its parts. As an author, you shouldn't try to compensate for a weak element in your game (for example, the artwork) by crafting a better story, selecting better music, etc. You really need to bring your A-game out for each element you put in.

Conversely: I think you're doomed if you fail to recognise and cater for your limitations. Catering for your limitations can be done in ways other than by getting someone else to do those bits for you; you might instead downplay the parts you can't do, for example. You might elect to perform those parts in an over-stylised manner which is easier to pull off well.

Some visual novels have animated cutscenes at regular intervals. Does that mean that if I'm weak at animation, or don't have the software, I shouldn't release a game without it but should instead cast about for volunteer anaimators to collaborate with me?

Maybe I can't compose music, so instead I write a suspense-horror story with no background music, just creepy SFX; would the game necessarily be better if it had music? Not at all.

Would It's a Wonderful Life or Citizen Kane automatically have been better movies if only they'd been filmed in colour? Would Haibane Renmei or Disney's Pinocchio be better if the art was entirely realist rather than highly stylised?

If you insist on excelling in every area, the far more likely result is that you'll fail to find someone to compose a unique original sountrack which perfectly fits your story for you, or you'll not get the hundreds of thousands of frames of animation done, or you'll not get every one of the three hundred different unique costume/pose/character combination sprites drawn and your project will never get released - and it's fairly trivial to realise that a finished game of any quality is better than a game that doesn't exist at all.

[mikey]

If you insist on excelling in every area, the far more likely result is that you'll fail to find someone to compose a unique original sountrack which perfectly fits your story for you, or you'll not get the hundreds of thousands of frames of animation done, or you'll not get every one of the three hundred different unique costume/pose/character combination sprites drawn and your project will never get released - and it's fairly trivial to realise that a finished game of any quality is better than a game that doesn't exist at all.

I'll add another thought to Jake's - I rather like the concept of "being content" with what you can do at a given time and mentally being able to mark a project off as "done", even though it could have been made better had you practiced more, or had you given things more attention, or had you contacted that cool artist. This is something you can ALWAYS do. This isn't quite right, this is missing some flow, that doesn't sound right, etc,...

However, my theory is, that if you do an honest job, it's the PLAYERS' problem if they don't like your game - not yours. People who are likely to criticize your game because you could have done a better job with graphics, or you could have polished this or that a bit more, and actually dislike your game for that (as opposed to those who suggest some improvements as there always can be some, but are able to enjoy the game normally), are the same sort of people who come home from a fantastic vacation, and still complain that the food wasn't all that excellent on Wednesday, and that one day it rained.

Yet, somehow, there seems to be a general understanding that being content with something means you're a loser, that NOT getting constantly bigger in your visions and pushing yourself more with each project is some form of stagnation - and that's, apparently, wrong. Obviously then, everyone's global aim is to be some sort of a second Type-Moon or work at a Japanese visual novel company. And it's a vicious cycle, since apparently unless you AREN'T Type-Moon, or work at a Japanese VN company, your opinion on the subject is logically the opinion of a loser who just can't do it and invents some sort of an excuse to be able to live with his failure.

The worst thing is, that there sometimes are people who really believe in this, who are unhappy and feel like losers, or are afraid to even begin working on their vision, feeling it's not going to be good enough. So maybe in those times it can help to look back at some activity in your past life that you did and you felt genuinelly fulfilled when doing it - maybe you built a sand castle, maybe you wrote a poem which actually rhymed, and maybe you shot your own film with a cellphone camera - those were moments when you didn't feel like you needed to compete, your activity was exciting and it made you happy. You weren't feeling inferior because your film couldn't compete with a Hollywood blockbuster, and you weren't afraid to show your castle proudly to your mom, because she would tell you the Eiffel tower is a much better architectural achievement.

And it really is also a personal thing - you can create a low-budget game where you put all your heart in and as a person, it will make you feel happier and more accomplished than the production team of an insanely popular VN. But you can also aim for a specific market - maybe you can find a niche and reach people who don't feel addressed by common popular genres. The list goes on - and the bottom line is, you should let your games decide where they belong - instead of trying to find a place where you want them and then pushing them to reach that place.

[PyTom]

And it really is also a personal thing - you can create a low-budget game where you put all your heart in and as a person, it will make you feel happier and more accomplished than the production team of an insanely popular VN.

And you know, as a player I'd much rather play medium-length games. I'd much rather play a game I can beat in a weekend then one that is going to last me weeks, and contains more text than the Lord of the Rings. For one thing, when playing a long game I have to devote a large portion of my life to that game, and it's the rare game that makes that totally worthwhile.

[Adorya]

Why do you use debug *cough* cheat *cough* mode on every renpy released game to view their ending then, that mean they are all large lenght game?

[Ukio]

...Okay, to bring the topic back, what kind of story sucks to you all?
I'm curios!

Whell... I REALLY hate some stories that I can look in some japanese games... you know... searching the net fron japanese titles I found a lot of games related to topics that I really hate... I mean, I can play Kana, I don't have problems with that themes too much, but I found a lot of japanese titles related to rape, pedophilia, etc. I'm learning that some kind of topics are very common in Japan... maybe other society... but I'm american... I prefer LOVE!!!! And I think that some themes are not too good for a VN... and not good for nothing!!!!
I cannot view a love story inside a rape enviroment... That is TRASH for me!!! Ofcouse, some people in Japan, don't think like me...
I found a game that is some kind of rape simulation... one have to chase a girl in the shadows of the night and... whell, you know...
I'm a fan of the japanese culture... but here I'm OUT!
I prefer REN AI!!!!!!! ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE!!!!! (sorry... it's my genetic... my mom was in the Woostock in the 60'...)

[LVUER]

Whell... I REALLY hate some stories that I can look in some japanese games... you know... searching the net fron japanese titles I found a lot of games related to topics that I really hate... I mean, I can play Kana, I don't have problems with that themes too much, but I found a lot of japanese titles related to rape, pedophilia, etc. I'm learning that some kind of topics are very common in Japan... maybe other society... but I'm american... I prefer LOVE!!!! And I think that some themes are not too good for a VN... and not good for nothing!!!!
I cannot view a love story inside a rape enviroment... That is TRASH for me!!! Ofcouse, some people in Japan, don't think like me...
I found a game that is some kind of rape simulation... one have to chase a girl in the shadows of the night and... whell, you know...
I'm a fan of the japanese culture... but here I'm OUT!
I prefer REN AI!!!!!!! ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE!!!!! (sorry... it's my genetic... my mom was in the Woostock in the 60'...)

Well, I don't know what kind of title you saw, but there are also lots of Japan renai title. Indeed there are games that categorized as Sex Simulator or Rape game where the games tell you about... well, only sex and rapes.

Games like Heart de Roomate, Kango Shicauzo, Come to See Me Tonight, Do You Like Horny Bunnies, and so on, tell you love story, some even a heartwarming one.