Trademark Infringement?

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Cybeat
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Trademark Infringement?

#1 Post by Cybeat »

Does anybody here know what Uno is? Anyway, I want my characters in my game to be playing Uno cards. If I wrote in my script "I feel like playing Uno." and the characters did play Uno, is that trademark infringement, or copyright infringe, or whatever the heck it is I did? I mean like, am I allowed to do that?
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#2 Post by Samu-kun »

Uno is a popular card/board game in the West. Yeah, as far as I know, it is a trademark infringement if you mention it in your work. That's why alot of doujin authors censor trademarks in their works, like Gun*am, Hare Hare Yu*ai, and so on and so forth. I do believe there was a discussion here some time ago about trademarks... *goes to search*

(However, in my opinion, I wouldn't worry too much about it...)

(^^That is not legal counsel)

edit:

I found the topic.

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =trademark
Last edited by Samu-kun on Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#3 Post by Cybeat »

Why would they say Gun*am if everyone knows it's obviously gundam?

Sorry about posting this thread if there's already one up. I wasn't paying attention.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#4 Post by PyTom »

Cybeat wrote:Does anybody here know what Uno is? Anyway, I want my characters in my game to be playing Uno cards. If I wrote in my script "I feel like playing Uno." and the characters did play Uno, is that trademark infringement, or copyright infringe, or whatever the heck it is I did? I mean like, am I allowed to do that?
Note that I only know US law, and I'm not actually a lawyer.

There are three main branches of intellectual property law:

- Patents protect ideas for a "short" amount of time, 20 years from when the patent is filed for. The rules of Uno would be an idea, so it would be possible to patent them and prevent people from creating their own game with the same rules. Since Uno was created in 1971, it seems that any patent would have expired.

- Copyright protects the tangible expression of ideas. In the US lasts for 70 years after the death of the creator, or 95 years after initial publication. (But all works created before 1923 have expired, an works published between 1923 and 1963 may be in the public domain if the copyright was not renewed.) The look of the Uno cards would probably fall under copyright, as would the Uno rulebook. But there are fair use exceptions in certain cases... In practice, I suspect that as long as you don't draw giant uno cards, you'll be fine.

- Trademark protects the use of a name in trade. It lasts forever, provided the name is actually being used in trade, and that the trademark owner defends the name. Basically, it means that you couldn't call your game "Uno Adventure" or anything like that. As long as you're not using the name in trade (basically, the title of your game, or the description), it's fine.

I don't know why the Japanese censor product names... it's unnecessary in the US, but they could have different laws. What with them being a "different country" and all that.

From what I understand, it is probably okay to have your characters play a game of Uno incidentally to the game. It's probably not okay to make an Uno game, call it Uno, and use Uno cards. It would probably be legal for you to make an Uno clone as long as you don't call it Uno, and don't use the faces of Uno cards... but I wouldn't recommend it, as Mattel has lawyers who might take issue with my analysis.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#5 Post by monele »

It is very popular to change the names of brand to be able to have them be easily recognized by the readers, yet not be bothered by legal problems. Stuff like "Naike" shoes, "Pepso" drinks, "Gandum" mechas, etc... Or you use some censorship like Samu-kun says.

I've never been perfectly sure about the legality of using trademarks otherwise. I think in France you can mention a brand... but you shouldn't be saying something bad about it. For example, someone can be watching a Philips TV... but shouldn't be all "oh god, this TV sucks so much! I hate Philips!". But... I think you also can't say something *good* either, because that would be unfair to other brands or something. Except I'm pretty sure some movies do it anyway but they have to sign contracts.
But again, as everyone else... I'm no lawyer ^^;

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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#6 Post by bloodywyvern »

Hm, I probably have even less legal knowledge than everyone else but...I'm somewhat sure that trademark is not based on the cards or rules itself. I believe, but am not positive, that "Uno" itself is the trademark. The name itself is most likely considered a trademark. It makes sense for people to either sensor or parody a name with a different spelling as samu-kun and monele mentioned. By seeing it as such, it would essentially render it was a trademark infringement. From my knowledge there are only two ways a trademark can be used without problems. One being that your referring to the original owners (as in referring to competition), or the second being if your not using it in terms of a trademark (A company has the trademark "Silence" for let's say a perfume, and you use silence in a non-trade mark manner).

In this case "Uno" would be used to refer to the actual game in a trademark manner, which would pose a problem. This of course only holds true if the name itself is trademarked, but if it is than yes it's trademark infringement.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#7 Post by Cybeat »

Well, that's something....okay. Thanks again. I'm glad I asked before deciding I would stick with having the characters play Uno.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#8 Post by bloodywyvern »

Well, either way you might want to change it up just to be safe. Maybe you can call it "Ubo" or something :mrgreen: Though, I don't think you'd draw any fire or anything for using the name even if it is a trademark. They would have to pursue legal action and...what need would they have for that? Your not damaging their rights, income, or the game itself.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#9 Post by Jake »

bloodywyvern wrote:Well, either way you might want to change it up just to be safe. Maybe you can call it "Ubo" or something :mrgreen:
As it goes, while this seems to be a common way of getting around such problems:

1) If you're actually libellous about the product/company/whatever in question, they can probably still sue you if it's recognisably them and nobody else, even if you spell their name wrong; asserting that "Soni Computer Entertainment Japan is a company of crooks and liars, and their PlaiStatian Tree is a worthless piece of crap" would probably still draw ire from the people who make PS3s.

2) In this case, 'Udo' means nothing, where 'uno' is recognisably 'one' in Italian and Spanish, and this is part of the game - a player calls 'Uno' when they have a single card left. It might be better from an immersion point of view to change such a name to something which means the same in another language - "Eins" or something - so it's recognisably the same thing rather than just similarly spelled.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#10 Post by bloodywyvern »

Jake wrote:1) If you're actually libellous about the product/company/whatever in question, they can probably still sue you if it's recognisably them and nobody else, even if you spell their name wrong; asserting that "Soni Computer Entertainment Japan is a company of crooks and liars, and their PlaiStatian Tree is a worthless piece of crap" would probably still draw ire from the people who make PS3s.
Well, really when your going up against corporate entities...it's pretty hard for them to -not- find something to sue you for. The whole case is whether they find the need to do so. While it may irk them a bit to see someone trash their product, if it isn't that popular than they have no reason to waste the money pursuing it. A fan made visual novel certainly isn't going to produce damage to them. Now, another medium that was being viewed by millions than yes they would probably jump at you no matter the selling.
2) In this case, 'Udo' means nothing, where 'uno' is recognisably 'one' in Italian and Spanish, and this is part of the game - a player calls 'Uno' when they have a single card left. It might be better from an immersion point of view to change such a name to something which means the same in another language - "Eins" or something - so it's recognisably the same thing rather than just similarly spelled.
Good point, changing it to a random misspelling undermines the nature of the game itself. it's been years since I've played...totally spaced on that one >.>;
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#11 Post by Jake »

bloodywyvern wrote: Well, really when your going up against corporate entities...it's pretty hard for them to -not- find something to sue you for. The whole case is whether they find the need to do so.
Well. Trademarks are something of a special case in this regard, since unlike most forms of "intellectual property" if you fail to enforce a trademark you risk losing it. So if they become aware of someone abusing one of their trademarks in a way that they can legally threaten you for, then they probably will legally threaten you for it.

Of course, this isn't quite the issue for intentional mis-spellings, but it's worth bearing in mind.

(And for that matter, another thing worth bearing in mind is the moral side of things. Now, legality and morality don't always entirely coincide, but just because you probably can get away with something doesn't mean you should. I could probably get away with shoplifting from the little newsagents down the road staffed by a cheery ancient white-haired couple, but I don't think I should. And just because Mattel are a huge corporation doesn't mean it's necessarily right to 'score one' against them.)
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#12 Post by PyTom »

monele wrote:I've never been perfectly sure about the legality of using trademarks otherwise. I think in France you can mention a brand... but you shouldn't be saying something bad about it. For example, someone can be watching a Philips TV... but shouldn't be all "oh god, this TV sucks so much! I hate Philips!". But... I think you also can't say something *good* either, because that would be unfair to other brands or something.
Well, it's giving away free advertising to someone who didn't pay for it. That would tend to offend advertisers who are paying for ads, especially if the free advertising is for a competitor. Which isn't really a problem in a free game.

Generally, assuming you live in the US, you shouldn't mention a brand in an absolutely negative context, or try to associate it with acts people consider deviant, and you'd be okay. For example, if you want to have characters play Uno, that's okay. If they want to play strip Uno, that's a gray area. If they want to (NSFW! NSF<18!)
force girls to play strip uno where the loser is horribly raped,
that might be a bad idea.

Note that "play uno" shows up in a number of novels in Google Books.
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#13 Post by Cybeat »

So, if I made a game called Ichi (No.1 in Japanese) with the same rules, nobody can sue me?

I also have another question. I mentioned "Spencer Mansion" in my visual novel. Spencer mansion is the mansion in Resident Evil (the first). Can I still get sued for that, or is that just a reference?
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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#14 Post by Samu-kun »

Spencer Mansion is not trademarked... So they probably couldn't do anything to you. XD

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Re: Trademark Infringement?

#15 Post by Cybeat »

:mrgreen: Good....so it's just reference?

Also, somebody mentioned that you can't say something bad about a trademark/company (was it monele?). I was watching The Simpson's once, and I think I heard Homer said "Damn you ebay!".
Last edited by Cybeat on Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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