What do you want to see in VN?

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NibiNibi
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What do you want to see in VN?

#1 Post by NibiNibi »

Hi everybody! Stopping by (in this fantastic place), to make some research and of course, to ask you many questions. If there was already such a topic - do not be affraid to say so and show me actual thread.
I'd like to ask you - what do you miss in VN? As a creators and players?
What do you want to see in future projects? What universes (original or fan), characters, type of plot? Are you fan of VN that are based on other books, folk stories, fairy tales, or you want something more "original"? And also - the main character - do you like more Role Play type, or you enjoy learning something about your PC/narrator that was created not by you but the author of the VN?
And art style - what type of artists you would like to see to make an art for VN? Still, more manga/anime style or western art? What's on you "wishlist", what would you like to see or create in the future?

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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#2 Post by Impulse »

Hello! Thought I'd could jump in and answer some of your questions :)

what do you miss in VN? As creators and players?
- This is a really broad question and I honestly don't know how to answer. I mean... There's tons of VN's out there and since I haven't played them all, it's impossible for me to answer this question.
What do you want to see in future projects? What universes (original or fan), characters, type of plot?
- Not only in future projects, but I like to see unique universes - preferably with magical or supernatural elements. I don't really like when it's based in the future because they tend to be about space shuttles and aliens - which I don't like at all. I want characters with a strong personality and a lot of mystery and backstory. I tend to like characters with a clear goal that are brave, but a little wacky in the head (don't ask me why, I just like the crazy ones).
Are you fan of VN that are based on other books, folk stories, fairy tales, or you want something more "original"?
- It's almost impossible to create something 100% original, since everyone gets inspiration from other places. Therefore, it doesn't have to be fully unique, but I don't like to play a VN and go "oh, this is the exact same thing that happened in..." or "this game is a copy of..." I do like it when it's based on folk stories or mythology, but with a modern twist. The "fate-series" (anime) is a great example of a modern twist on mythology.
And also - the main character - do you like more Role Play type, or you enjoy learning something about your PC/narrator that was created not by you but the author of the VN?
- I really like mystery and backstories, so I want the main character to have one. It's much more interesting if the creator of the VN have a well thought-out main character that have their own distinct personality, than a blank slate.
And art style - what type of artists you would like to see to make an art for VN? Still, more manga/anime style or western art? What's on you "wishlist", what would you like to see or create in the future?
- I like the manga/anime art because it's simple and nice. Western art is great if you're a really talented artist, but since there's just so much detail in western art it can easily turn ugly if you don't know how to put all these details in. Manga/anime art is much more forgiving which is why I prefer it. I create manga/anime art, but I would really like to learn western art as well. However, I won't create anything in that style unless I know I can master it.
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Demo for Tears of Glass - viewtopic.php?f=45&t=38285

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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#3 Post by Klawzie »

I think you're going to get a lot of people saying, "First off - make the game you are interested in making." I'd also add the bonus of, "Since many of us here are devs or aspiring devs, we'll probably be skewed in comparison to those who are purely players." But I suppose if you just take our posts with a grain of salt, there's no harm in it. :D (I've been catching up on the forums and what I've missed over the last several years when my attendance was spotty - so I've definitely seen similar threads, but I don't know if any are particularly recent.)

---

My most general answer is, "I want to see projects the creators themselves are interested in." If it feels like soulless pandering to a demographic, I lose interest very quickly, assuming I didn't feel it from the description of the game itself and just avoided playing it.

To answer more specifically some of your questions....

I usually don't play fan games. Not of "current" properties, anyway. Public domain properties (fairytales, classic books, myths, legends; even far-history using historical figures), I enjoy a lot. I actually spend a lot of my creative time playing with adaptations of fairytales/folktales - I've always enjoyed that sort of thing. I suppose the reason why I avoid "current" properties is because there's always a possibility that the intellectual property holder might release new work(s) and I don't want to start confusing "canon" and "fanon". I like there being a definite "the canon is complete - so now you can work around canon to tell your plausibly-happened stories or jump-start your alt-universe stories". It's probably the biggest reason why I don't do more than the occasional piece of fanart and roleplay in universes with original characters anymore. (I used to write a LOT of fanfic.) Just a personal preference!

I do love original works too, of course! I enjoy exploring new worlds. If I had a choice between an interesting adaptation or an original world... I'd probably play both. (If I had to choose, it'd come down to personal merits of each game, I suppose.)

As far as MC(s) go, I guess I typically prefer an actual "character" as opposed to a "custom MC". But there are some more sim-type games that are more fun with custom MCs, so I guess it's down to what sort of game it actually is. If it's a game that lets you customize your story a lot, I prefer a custom character. If the game has a more "linear" story, I prefer a proper character with a personality of his/her own. I'm not really a big fan of the blank-slate MC.

With art styles - I'm open to just about anything, provided it has care put behind it. I do prefer less amateur art, but a strong and interesting style and some polish on the graphics can make up for lack of experience. I suppose I do lean more towards anime/manga styles (particularly various shoujo styles), but it's not an overwhelming preference and depends on the type of game it is.

In terms of theme/genre... I strongly lean otome or BL romance in fantasy, modern, or historical/alt-historical worlds, but they're not the only things I'm interested in playing. I love adventure, mysteries, and supernatural elements - and I'd love to see an intense political thriller (kings and queens playing world chess sort of thing - not dumb politician pantomime), but I don't know that many people would tackle that sort of thing!

Making it clear because I feel more comfortable if I do - these are just my general preferences. If a sci-fi fan game with blank-slate lesbians who aren't courting or maintaining a relationship came along and it seemed interesting, I'd give it a go too. xD
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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#4 Post by morg »

Klawzie wrote:I think you're going to get a lot of people saying, "First off - make the game you are interested in making."
that term is so overused and not really helpful especially when the creator aims to create something people will love, i mean, if you plan on releasing it then that means that you want other people to enjoy it. that's the whole point of making a visual novel.

now, here are my personal opinions,

what do you miss in a VN? there are so many visual novels and each of them take on a new and different topic, it would be difficult to say that there is a missing element.

What do you want to see in future projects? What universes (original or fan), characters, type of plot? Are you fan of VN that are based on other books, folk stories, fairy tales, or you want something more "original"? I love visual novels based on folk stories and legends, especially when it's related to a certain culture; I don't believe you can go bad when twisting myths or setting your story in an ancient universe. As for genres i'd like to see more of, then i could say fantasy. Fantasy stories always require a lot of world-building, making the stories automatically richer and more intriguing. I also love games with lots of characters in, yet I don't know why they always attract me :D

And also - the main character - do you like more Role Play type, or you enjoy learning something about your PC/narrator that was created not by you but the author of the VN? actually, i prefer it when the story is presented in third person, contrary to first person. When creators go for the latter, they often have to make the main character plain so that he or she can fit all the types of personalities of the readers. they make them too stereotypical and it gets boring. this isn't in most VNs though, there are quite a few who have dedicated to make their MC as bold as the rest of the cast.

And art style - what type of artists you would like to see to make an art for VN? Still, more manga/anime style or western art? all art is good art, especially when it blends with the game's genre. for example, a realistic, low-saturated coloring art style is perfect for horror stories and the 'Japanese high school' genre works well with anime-style. on the other hand, pairing a horror story with the moe style can be a bit off-putting

that's it! i hope i've been of benefit to you somehow :)
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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#5 Post by gekiganwing »

Write down a list of things you would consider including in your story. That could include themes, plot twists, characters, and more. Write a second list of things you would rather avoid.

Think about media that you already enjoy. Write down specific things you like about it. For instance, write "I like how Movie II: The Revenge showed the unspoken romantic tension between the cop on the edge and the hooker with a heart of gold." Also, consider writing specific things that you've seen in books, games, comics, and television that you want to exclude.
Klawzie wrote: My most general answer is, "I want to see projects the creators themselves are interested in." If it feels like soulless pandering to a demographic, I lose interest very quickly...
Nibinibi, I recommend writing a story that you find interesting and enjoyable. Use an art aesthetic that you like, and that you think is appropriate for your story. You can also create a VN with no character sprites or backgrounds. Let your story be as short as you want, or as long as you can manage. Include zero characters, only one, or as many as you can commit to writing.
Morg wrote: ... on the other hand, pairing a horror story with [a] moe style can be a bit off-putting ...
Consider using deliberately contrasting art if it makes sense regarding your story. For example, use unsettling expressionistic drawings to show how your point-of-view character sees their fictional world, and make sure the audience knows that the narrator is not entirely reliable. (A similar example: in the recent past, School-Live! used a cute art style to show how a character is coping with horrifying circumstances.)

Multiple art styles can be used to portray different points of view, different fictional worlds, and so on.

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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#6 Post by Green Glasses Girl »

This question actually pops up on this forum about once a month now. :lol:
Klawzie wrote:I think you're going to get a lot of people saying, "First off - make the game you are interested in making."
morg wrote:that term is so overused and not really helpful especially when the creator aims to create something people will love, i mean, if you plan on releasing it then that means that you want other people to enjoy it. that's the whole point of making a visual novel.
That phrase shouldn't be discarded so easily as it still holds a lot of merit. If you make a game *solely* based on what other people enjoy, which is extremely subjective, you're going to have a bad time. If you have a group of people reply saying they want a high school otome set in Japan (which there are plenty of at this point), are you going to make that simply because that's what a handful of people want or are you actually interested in making it because it's something you like? You should make a game with a story that interests you first, followed by tailoring it to what you want to share.

Echoing gekiganwing, write down of list of things that you like. Genres, characters, settings, and so on. Then filter/combine the items from there. You might find something that surprises you!

As for art: There are plenty of people on here who are attracted to visual novels with manga/anime-influenced art, and there are also plenty of people who are turned off by it. But at the end of the day, if it's poorly drawn, it can't be helped. GOOD art is key, meaning on-model and eye-catching...regardless if it is anime/manga or western. That being said, @OP: is your avatar an example of your art? Because it looks pretty nice at first glance and I'm already interested!
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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#7 Post by Klawzie »

morg wrote:
Klawzie wrote:I think you're going to get a lot of people saying, "First off - make the game you are interested in making."
that term is so overused and not really helpful especially when the creator aims to create something people will love, i mean, if you plan on releasing it then that means that you want other people to enjoy it. that's the whole point of making a visual novel.
Yes - that's true, I'm sure. That's usually the point of these sorts of threads. "What do you like? What niche isn't being met? What's the saturation point on the tropes or genres I enjoy?"

Many people express being thoroughly sick of the Japanese high school setting and vampires. So if a creator is extremely passionate about a story about a vampire in a Japanese high school they should just let it die on the vine? Personally - I don't think so. Not if that's the story they want to tell more than the idea they came up with for an office romance between mature adults and what happens to the couple after they get married and have kids - because a single thread told them that maybe that's the sort of story the 20 or so people who responded all seemed like they'd be interested in.

Sometimes people need to be given permission to tell the stories they want to tell. And having passion for a project is what gives it the strongest chance of becoming a finished game.
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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#8 Post by SundownKid »

morg wrote:
Klawzie wrote:I think you're going to get a lot of people saying, "First off - make the game you are interested in making."
that term is so overused and not really helpful especially when the creator aims to create something people will love, i mean, if you plan on releasing it then that means that you want other people to enjoy it. that's the whole point of making a visual novel.
I think the point of that saying is that assuming you are a creator, and that you have "good taste", then people will like your game regardless of what it is. So you don't have to ape other games and try to mimic their setting and characters.

Although I think that only works so far. Some things do seem more decidedly popular than others.

On the other hand, if you cant stomach the games you are making then what's the point of even doing indie development? The idea of being indie is to make things you are passionate about. Otherwise you may as well find a different more lucrative thing to do with your time

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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#9 Post by Kinjo »

Well, the OP didn't actually say they were in the process of making a VN -- just that they were curious about our answers to these questions. So even though these may not necessarily be what the OP wants to make, or even should make, I'm gonna answer honestly about what I'd like to see in a VN.

What do you want to see in future projects?
I'd like to see a larger focus on gameplay mechanics. You have a lot of potential just with the typical "choice" element most VNs have. There's just a lot of untapped potential for "gameplay which changes the story." But I really think people need to also get better at coding things and have a better understanding of that in order to make it work. I'd like a story that is mainly driven by conflict, that's a very lengthy read and has a meaningful conclusion. Something I can think about outside of just playing the game; it has a lasting impact.

What universes (original or fan), characters, type of plot?
Whatever the author wants, but I think more VNs could benefit from more diverse types of stories. Basically, anything other than a slice of life rom-com.

Are you fan of VN that are based on other books, folk stories, fairy tales, or you want something more "original"?
I prefer original content, although (having made fangame-VNs myself) if I happen to be a fan of something I might read a VN about it.

And also - the main character - do you like more Role Play type, or you enjoy learning something about your PC/narrator that was created not by you but the author of the VN?
I prefer characters built by the author, rather than myself. Blank slates tend to be devoid of anything meaningful. Unless you utilize that mechanic in a way that is really insightful about the player (and that's usually a pretty difficult thing to accomplish) then I'd prefer having a protagonist written by the author. That is, whatever has the most meaning.

And art style - what type of artists you would like to see to make an art for VN? Still, more manga/anime style or western art?
Less generic anime. Just something unique and interesting, whether it's anime-style or not. That is, a distinctive style.

What's on you "wishlist", what would you like to see or create in the future?
Just something that I can invest a lot of time into playing. I think too many VNs are short and lack depth. That's also what I'd say is a missing element.

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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#10 Post by sendo »

I'd like to ask you - what do you miss in VN? As a creators and players?
As a player, I don't really have any specific thing in mind. When I play a VN (or any game really) I read the summary/gameplay info so I know what to expect from the game. Same applies with being a creator.

What do you want to see in future projects? What universes (original or fan), characters, type of plot? Are you fan of VN that are based on other books, folk stories, fairy tales, or you want something more "original"? And also - the main character - do you like more Role Play type, or you enjoy learning something about your PC/narrator that was created not by you but the author of the VN?
I'd like to see more VNs set in fantasy worlds. I don't have any preference when it comes to adapting from other medium or making something completely original. A good story is still a good story.

I was in the anime/manga circles before discovering VNs so I'm kinda biased with reading stories about fleshed-out characters. I find playing as a blank-slate character boring sometimes, it's a little harder to make a connection I guess. It can still be fun though.

And art style - what type of artists you would like to see to make an art for VN? Still, more manga/anime style or western art? What's on you "wishlist", what would you like to see or create in the future?
I am an 'anime/manga' artist myself so I'd love to see more of that. I agree with Green Glasses Girl, good art is key, whether its anime or western or a mishmash of styles. I really enjoyed the art from Her Tears Were My Light and Five Star Freeloaders: The Demo from the recent nanoreno. They're cute, simple, but still very appealing. Sometimes, less is more. I think consistency in art is another thing.

I'd also love to see looser anime styles. The kind of style you see in Kill la Kill, Kiznaiver, Pretty Cure Heartcatch, etc. Sharper, less smooth, less round-ish, more rugged(?). It's still anime/manga, but I really love the energetic feeling of the style. It's something I want to try myself in the future.

Oh yeah, I'd also love to see more mecha VNs. Off the top of my head, there's just Sunrider. Something I'm also interested in doing somewhere down the line.
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Re: What do you want to see in VN?

#11 Post by VimislikArt »

what do you miss in VN? As creators and players?
I don't play enough of them to "miss" anything, but I prefer shorter style projects - the less time I need to dedicate to a game or show, the better. Granted, I am a pretty busy guy, so I know this isn't a majority opinion :).

What do you want to see in future projects? What universes (original or fan), characters, type of plot?
Original stories, comedic or lighthearted if possible, or good horror, and I don't like romance or 18+ style subjects. Anything that just screams to me "I'M DIFFERENT!" is also worth my taking a look, but it's gotta be appropriately weird for me to take a look (Dating pigeons is not different enough for me, for example) There...there aren't a lot of VNs for me, but lots of Interactive Fiction!

Are you fan of VN that are based on other books, folk stories, fairy tales, or you want something more "original"?
Original, or original takes on subject manner.

And also - the main character - do you like more Role Play type, or you enjoy learning something about your PC/narrator that was created not by you but the author of the VN?
Either is fine, although there are different design, story, and theme considerations for each style for it to "work" for me.

And art style - what type of artists you would like to see to make an art for VN? Still, more manga/anime style or western art? What's on you "wishlist", what would you like to see or create in the future?
Anything that looks relatively unique and interesting. If I can tell at a glance at any random screenshot of your game and go "Oh, I know what that's from", that's usually a good sign. Western style gets a pass from me because it encompasses a lot of diverse styles, but anime like Princess Jellyfish, Ping Pong the Animation, Tekkon Kinkreet, Redline, FLCL, and Mr. Osomatsu are all a-okay in my book.
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