south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

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south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#1 Post by firecat » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:34 pm

So many of you don't follow major law such as this and allowed yourselfs to be criminals without trying but we are talking about south korea, the biggest gaming place in the world. So first explanation of the new rule "Personal Information Protection Act" or PIPA (개인 정보 보호 법).

What does it do?
Any company big or small, international or national, foreigner or not, they must never give or leak any information. If it does happen then that company will be charged like a criminal under South Korea's laws.

What do you do to not get charged?
You must first put any and all information in encryption. After that you must tell users that you are collecting their information, do not be lazy and say "You agree to this" that is not allowed. Next set up any foolproof plan, any hacker that got bypass your security must also somehow be stop before anymore damage happens. Everything that helps protect information must be taken seriously. lastly Accountability of Senior Officers, you must have someone for South Korea to talk too or else you will be arrested, if you are a foreigner or in another country, they will ask the government for help.

What might happen to me if charged?
you first talk to the South Korean people who oversee the case (not clear on who it is, maybe bad translation). If you did everything but hacker got through anyway you are safe. If hacker got through easy than you will get fine with KRW ₩100 million (approx. €72,100 for USA its about $81,137.72) and/or 10 years' imprisonment. In rare case if you were working with many other companies you will have to stand in court and answer any questions that apply to that case, you could be spare but not really.

Who does this law effect?
Everyone even Steam might be in real serious legal trouble (no joke). Since everyone knows that Steam has records of always leaking information, hackers in their own games, Non-hackers accessing Steam store, etc.

When does this start?
Lucky it not being enforced yet, it did become law on March 22, 2016 and will become effective on September 23, 2016. They wanted everyone to get ready.

I'm a indie developer who uses only Steam, this does not matter to me.
You will lose South Korea as a customer when you keep using Steam. Also You could be responsible for a case because again this affects everyone who does business with South Korea people, everyone knows they are the world's hardest and strictest on data information.

Where can i read this (english, don't you dare come here and say i made this up)?
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail. ... 3415c91f9f
http://datamatters.sidley.com/south-kor ... providers/
http://www.dataguidance.com/dataguidanc ... sp?id=2697
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail. ... 843d54d813
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-per ... -2011.html
http://www.vormetric.com/compliance/PIPA

Official PIPA website in english, Translated by South Korean government for any foreigner to have their questions answered about the law: http://www.pipc.go.kr/cmt/main/english.do
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#2 Post by RotGtIE » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:11 pm

My name is Nostradamus and I predict that South Korea will be completely incapable of enforcing their claim of having the authority to extradite foreigners to prosecute them in any information privacy lawsuits.

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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#3 Post by KittyWills » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:39 pm

What Rot says. And seriously doubt that indies will be effected. They are going to go after big companies that deal with credit card information and more sensitive data. Not some kid selling games who has little more then a name and an email to these people.

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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#4 Post by firecat » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:06 pm

Guys these are the same government that force everyone to sleep at a certain time. this is the same government that enforces "whatsitcalled" for games, they are the same government that charged a MLG player for harassment, etc. you do not know how far they will go.
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#5 Post by Donmai » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:00 pm

Uh oh. Geography confusion. Which Korea are you talking about?
Last edited by Donmai on Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#6 Post by Ghost of Crux » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:23 pm

"The Network Act regulates and protects the personal information of individuals (“Information Subjects”) that are collected, used and disclosed by telecommunications and online service providers (“Service Providers.”)"
I can't claim to be knowledgeable on what the big VN devs do, but I'm fairly sure that the majority of the VN developing community here don't really... collect personal information. Well, perhaps for payment, but I believe that's handled by a third party for the most part? I mean, I'd love to be enlightened on this if I'm wrong (or right, for that matter)-- I'd love to understand the underbelly of VN developing.

Also, my friend can attest that South Korean education system is hellish, but I don't believe she had enforced bedtime. She did, after all, come home at 10 from cram school.
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#7 Post by Suika » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:43 pm

firecat wrote:you must have someone for South Korea to talk too or else you will be arrested, if you are a foreigner or in another country, they will ask the government for help
I may be misunderstanding you here, but I doubt very seriously that any major government would allow their civilians to be arrested and extradited on the basis that they didn't hire an attorney from another country to review their liability to a blanket law that may not even apply...

I'm not saying to ignore this legislation, especially if you're in South Korea, but we seem to be talking primarily about payment information, so using a large third party platform with reasonable security for sales/distribution seems to be a logical choice. If South Korea starts blocking or prosecuting the major distributors (Steam, Itch, Desura, etc), then I'm not sure I would want to risk distributing to their territory anyways...
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#8 Post by KittyWills » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:47 pm

SOUTH Korea, dude, not North. I know people who live there, no one is forced to go to bed at a certain time. Again, from reading all the literature you posted, this is obviously geared towards credit card companies, legal associations, and third party information brokers. People who deal with large amounts of sensitive data. Think banks, not indies.

/comes back to edit post ala bursting through door meme/ And another thing! International crimes don't work like that. Korea can't arrest me because I sold some illegal info in the USA. I would have to be handed over per being arrested over here and I could still use an American attorney. I wouldn't need to know someone in Korea.

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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#9 Post by firecat » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:13 pm

KittyWills wrote:SOUTH Korea, dude, not North. I know people who live there, no one is forced to go to bed at a certain time. Again, from reading all the literature you posted, this is obviously geared towards credit card companies, legal associations, and third party information brokers. People who deal with large amounts of sensitive data. Think banks, not indies.

/comes back to edit post ala bursting through door meme/ And another thing! International crimes don't work like that. Korea can't arrest me because I sold some illegal info in the USA. I would have to be handed over per being arrested over here and I could still use an American attorney. I wouldn't need to know someone in Korea.
man i'm at at english and people still never acknowledge that fact and of course i cant use my own language because its a rule apparently. on the document (which none of you people ever read) it states:

"Organizations are required to establish an official statement of those security measures, and an internal privacy officer must be appointed (regardless of the size or nature of the organization) to oversee data processing activities".

True that internal privacy officer is not about who can be but rather it needs one. So if you were indie developer in Steam, then Steam might declare "no fault in damage" which leads to only you the developer or Paypal but they already cover South Korea Laws. great job Steam you ruin lives.

I never said north, i was being so careful and even reread it and CRTL+F, no results, so dont try to make it up some story about it. The bedtime was a rule, keyword "was".
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1245 ... e_Vote.php
https://www.engadget.com/2011/04/23/sou ... animously/
http://www.ironrealms.com/south-korea-m ... nto-effect

that law fail for many reasons.

Now you are the target audience that i knew would complain, so here are some other laws that are not related to indie games but must be legally follow: Copyright, Data rights, Paying your internet bill, Agreements (too many too list, this forum included), Personal rights, privacy rights, privacy policy, etc (need to go to sleep).

Every law even if outside must be followed, heck how do you even know, you not a lawyer or anything.
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#10 Post by KittyWills » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:36 pm

Now you are the target audience that i knew would complain, so here are some other laws that are not related to indie games but must be legally follow: Copyright, Data rights, Paying your internet bill, Agreements (too many too list, this forum included), Personal rights, privacy rights, privacy policy, etc (need to go to sleep).

Every law even if outside must be followed, heck how do you even know, you not a lawyer or anything.
And you are? You can't use an argument that can be said the same about your self bro.

Not a lawyer, but I have been a Small Business owner for five years. I know my way around legal works. Either way, I'm not going to worry about it. I doubt something like this is going to effect me. And if it does, I have an attorney.

but yaaar

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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#11 Post by RotGtIE » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:55 am

firecat wrote:So if you were indie developer in Steam, then Steam might declare "no fault in damage" which leads to only you the developer or Paypal but they already cover South Korea Laws. great job Steam you ruin lives.
Breaking News: Indie VN Developer Arrested by South Korea

In a landmark case which could change the face of international law, a Portuguese independent game developer best known for his work on the Visual Novel Kissy Mew Mew and The Curse of the Heartless Chu-chu has been extradited to South Korea to face trial for crimes against a gamer who - upon having the name of his cat guessed as his Steam account password - awoke to find that he had somehow spent hundreds of dollars buying every game, expansion, and DLC in the Total War franchise without even waiting for any weekend deals.

After being contacted, Gabe Newell assured our reporters that although Team Fortress 2 was in development for years, it was certainly worth the wait. He further added that his favorite class continues to be the spy.

Following Valve's lack of a response to the international debacle, South Korean officials had the Portuguese developer arrested on charges of internet supercrime. In a fiery speech, Hwang Kyo-ahn made it clear that "none of our prized professional Starcraft players are to be adversely impacted by overseas shenanigans of this despicable variety."

The independent developer, who has asked for us to withhold their identity but allowed us to identify them by their internet handle "XxNarutoShadow01xX," replied directly to our efforts to seek answers about the intent of the security matters for customers. We had originally attempted to direct our questions to the development studio, to which XxNarutoShadow01xX replied, "I don't even have a studio. It was just me. I did everything - drew all the pictures, too - and I didn't even do a good job of it. I don't know what these people want from me."

When questioned about why his country would allow the citizens of his sovereign nation to be extradited on such spurious claims, Prime Minister António Costa gave a brief official statement: "Look, I just thought it would help to have us in the news for once. You know how many times they point to a map of this peninsula and people don't know that it isn't just Spain? It's embarrassing."

Pressed for further information, Hwang Kyo-ahn stated his plans for the landmark case. "Although we are prepared to carry out the full sentence of eighty-thousand dollars and ten years in prison, we are willing to settle with Valve if Gaben promises a release date for Half-Life 3."

Newell, immersed in serving soup primarily comprised of broken glass and a lemon in Job Simulator, could not be reached for further comment.

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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#12 Post by firecat » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:51 am

Every single time i have to go through this and people are ignoring it:

games that offer microtransaction, location, personal data, Photos/Media/Files (yes its in there too), email address, device data, Identity, Wi-Fi connection information, permission to install a location provider, etc, will need to comply with South Korea's law or else never try to sell on that country.

VN games that do this include: If my Heart had Wings (android payall version), Always Remember Me, An Octave Higher, BAD END, Every AAA title.

a wise cop said "I don't make the law, I just follow it"
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#13 Post by Suika » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:19 pm

I think most people here are just trying to share the opinion that the best course of action for small indie developers is just to sit back and see what happens, rather than investing a lot of time and money into trying to comply with a South Korean law.

I don't think anyone is trying to ignore you (at the very least I'm not), I just don't see a compelling reason to do anything else than continue to take care when dealing with private information, and use a third party to handle payment.

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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#14 Post by Rossfellow » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:38 pm

Thanks for the links, OP, they explain this law better than the tinfoil hats you're handing out.

I'd have thought you'd nailed this point to your head in the past few months after this board has pointed it out to you, repeatedly at that, but I'll repeat it again.

Civil Court =/= Criminal Court.

Meaning Punitive Damages =/= Felony.

I'd explain to you what this law really means, but I'd probably be wasting my time, because you're so much smarter than me.
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Re: south korea "PIPA" and why it matters to you.

#15 Post by Ghost of Crux » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:07 am

Umm folks? I think rather than blowing the heated comments even more, let's all agree to just read the links in the OP's post (and hopefully understand what's within it) and call it a day without replying, eh?
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