I'm asking for feedback on my tutorial

[namastaii]

If you didn't see my last post, I will re-explain here.

I wanted to start making videos. In my free time. Most of them being tutorials on stuff I have learned and adapted to to share with others (mostly with gui creation and implementing the gui etc)
(this channel will also be used for future tutorials on projects in javascript and html/css stuff so I wanted to add in some ren'py stuff too since I like working with it)

I actually finished the first one. (it is split into two) I just would like to hear some feedback before I make the videos public. I would really appreciate it.

Some kind of things I'm looking for.. (and these things will determine what I improve on the next video. Anything big I need to change, I'll add a note to the video)

- Were the videos too long or boring?
- Were they too fast?
- Did I explain steps well enough or did I not include enough clear instruction?
- Did I use any 'bad' practices? --especially with coding
- Overall, what are your thoughts on this idea in general
- Anything you liked or didn't like about them

I don't expect anyone to watch anything all the way through. They are a tad long. I tried to shorten them to the best of my abilities.

Thank you so much for your time.

Part 1 (the photoshop process)
Part 2 (the coding/implementation process)

[firecat]

Its not very basic, you basically jump to advance level. If you just teach how to make a button first they would get easyer understanding than learning about hotspots, hovering, modifying code, etc.

Art side is very slow and only applys to people who own Photoshop. Poor people like me use Krita. I do not know if everyone does what you did but its honestly a big time waster to draw on preference, unless you are making it very custom. Every tool you ever need to make your words look better is never used.

The videos where kina long and slow with unnecessary pausing (edit it out). Steps where not clear, too much focus on getting the code or art right than talking to the people of YouTube.

You delete everything, i know why you did that but inexperienced developers do not. There is a chance they could get it wrong and have the game become unpleasant. One big mistake was never referencing to us, we can help with any gui code you don't need to say "this code will always work". Link to examples or this forum for users to ask questions.

I'm starting to think this idea won't go well. So in short things that need fix, video needs editing and 1280x760p would be nice. Dont relay on Photoshop all the time. Basics is better than advanced training. Give people examples of code or try to link to a thread.

These should help, oh background music can be added, it helps calm the audience and its proven to help learning.

[namastaii]

Actually, the reason I started with this tutorial was because of the many problems people face when dealing with hotspots. I can definitely do more basic concepts in other videos. This one was specifically for imagemaps. So hopefully someone just starting out doesn't try to use my tutorial lol

Again, it is all just about custom imagemaps. You can actually use any photo editor you want just using the same steps. You can use krita. Just use the layers the same way.

The video is actually in 1920 x 1080 so it's well over 1280 x 720 unless you're saying the resolution is too big? I'm not sure what you're saying.

I also don't think you understood what the 'tutorial' was for. I could easily do step by step stuff in other videos but I guess I could better describe what this tutorial is. People just have problems implementing it and that is all it was for.

And I don't 'rely' on photoshop all the time. I stated in the first video, "this is how I do my imagemaps" that's all it was. This is definitely not the only way to do things. Just an imagemap with some steps and and idea behind it. And to show the coding process to implement correctly layered/organized images.

A problem I sometimes see is when a person is trying to do imagemaps, they make their ground image their idle image basically and there are just some messy things like that that i see. So this was to clear up some things like that. Does that make sense? I'm definitely not a pro coder, artist, and I definitely have never done tutorials before so I'm not going to be this pro tutorialist lol


one more thing: this hasn't gone public yet so I haven't added the documentation. The plan was, for every video, there'd be a detailed document explaining it all in writing. In a lot of cases you wouldn't even need to watch the video but sometimes people like visuals

[chocoberrie]

I think the first video was a great start!

I think some sort of introduction would be helpful though; you jump right into the preferences menu, and don't mention what certain elements mean (e.g. idle, ground, etc.). I don't think a beginner would necessarily know what these are, unless they've looked at the Ren'Py documentation.

The Quickstart is really helpful and is usually where beginners go to learn basics, but as it doesn't cover imagemaps or mention any of the imagemap elements at all, I think it would be a good idea to have an introductory segment at the beginning of the video explaining imagemap terminology.

Things like:

• imagemaps are and why they're useful
• what hotspots are and how to figure out their coordinates
• what the different image states are (e.g. idle, hover, ground) and why they're needed
• image state requirements (e.g. transparency, size/dimensions, etc.)

Also, it might be a good idea to talk about design aspects more broadly, referencing other art programs, because not everyone has Photoshop. You could mention other art programs that people could use, like GIMP, or as firecat mentioned, Krita. My personal favorite is Paint Tool SAI, but for GUI design, SAI isn't particularly helpful (not as many features).

As far as tutorial videos go in general, I think it would be better to make the first video be super basic and general (e.g. indentation, what script looks like, what variables are, etc.), and slowly build up to more complicated things like imagemaps. That way, viewers don't see the more complicated stuff first and get scared away from Ren'Py coding! (I know if I would've seen imagemap coding first, instead of a simple script with label start and image declarations, I would've been very intimidated.) By starting with imagemaps, you're assuming that the viewer already has familiarity with Ren'Py basics, which may not always be the case. On that note, maybe you could look at the Quickstart, make a list of the things it covers, and then expand upon it. That way, beginners can have a resource to go to after they finish reading/learning along with the Quickstart material.

I'm not sure if starting with the preferences menu is a good idea, since it's not the first menu you see when you open a game. Perhaps going in some sort of menu order would make the tutorial series easier to follow along with, e.g. main menu first, followed by the save/load menu, etc.

I agree with firecat in that some editing would be helpful, to remove parts where you pause. Background music would also be lovely! Something instrumental, to not distract from the learning process.

P.S. Excellent idea using folders and duplicating them to make different image states! Here I was, duplicating individual text layers, so painfully slowly lmao

[KittyWills]

Gonna start off by saying this is a great idea. How a program that's been around this long and doesn't have hardly any video tutorials just baffles me. Kudo's on that.

Jumping right in. The first video is too long. I would recommend having all your text pre-made and sitting in a folder to show people rather then making them as you go along. Most people are already going to know what they need on the GUI and are more interested on how to make the imagemap it's self. Have all your fonts picked out already and make comments in passing if you have to but don't linger on design. A ten minute video is more helpful then having to skip through a 30 minute one to find the one thing they are looking for.

Second video. Mostly nit picks. It was easy to understand and you explained it well. Some real time comments,

Red font on purple background. I can't read that all.
Don't guess, get all your numbers figured out before you start. Just make a comment that people might have to play around to get it to fit properly. Or just do the first one.
You're spending a lot of time tweaking. You could cut out 7:00ish - 12:00 out completely.

lol And this is very much nit-pick, but maybe toss your desktop icons into a folder during your tuts. Super minor thing, but looks neater.

I don't know what firecat is talking about but this looks very very basic. Anything less then this can be learned in the tutorial that comes with the program. And most people looking for videos are going to want it certain more advanced things. That's why we look for videos.
The photoshop thing was fine. Most people have PS and the logic can be applied to most programs. I use Illustrator and I can duplicate 90% of what you did.

I actually prefer you deleting all the previous code. Makes things much neater and forces people learn what they are making. I would recommend sharing a copy of it in your documentation for us dyslexic people who will certainly typo something though. lol


Overall, I liked it and still thinks it's a great idea! My main recommendation would be pre-making all your written items and trying to keep your videos under 15 minutes. 10 would be ideal. For simple concepts at least. Great so far! I'm super excited for more.

// Quick edit. I'm going to toss my hat in for No background music that cocoberrie mentions. I tend to find them extremely distracting. No matter how soothing it is. But just my opinion.

[namastaii]

I think the first video was a great start!

I think some sort of introduction would be helpful though; you jump right into the preferences menu, and don't mention what certain elements mean (e.g. idle, ground, etc.). I don't think a beginner would necessarily know what these are, unless they've looked at the Ren'Py documentation.

The Quickstart is really helpful and is usually where beginners go to learn basics, but as it doesn't cover imagemaps or mention any of the imagemap elements at all, I think it would be a good idea to have an introductory segment at the beginning of the video explaining imagemap terminology.

Things like:

• imagemaps are and why they're useful
• what hotspots are and how to figure out their coordinates
• what the different image states are (e.g. idle, hover, ground) and why they're needed
• image state requirements (e.g. transparency, size/dimensions, etc.)

Also, it might be a good idea to talk about design aspects more broadly, referencing other art programs, because not everyone has Photoshop. You could mention other art programs that people could use, like GIMP, or as firecat mentioned, Krita. My personal favorite is Paint Tool SAI, but for GUI design, SAI isn't particularly helpful (not as many features).

As far as tutorial videos go in general, I think it would be better to make the first video be super basic and general (e.g. indentation, what script looks like, what variables are, etc.), and slowly build up to more complicated things like imagemaps. That way, viewers don't see the more complicated stuff first and get scared away from Ren'Py coding! (I know if I would've seen imagemap coding first, instead of a simple script with label start and image declarations, I would've been very intimidated.) By starting with imagemaps, you're assuming that the viewer already has familiarity with Ren'Py basics, which may not always be the case. On that note, maybe you could look at the Quickstart, make a list of the things it covers, and then expand upon it. That way, beginners can have a resource to go to after they finish reading/learning along with the Quickstart material.

I'm not sure if starting with the preferences menu is a good idea, since it's not the first menu you see when you open a game. Perhaps going in some sort of menu order would make the tutorial series easier to follow along with, e.g. main menu first, followed by the save/load menu, etc.

I agree with firecat in that some editing would be helpful, to remove parts where you pause. Background music would also be lovely! Something instrumental, to not distract from the learning process.

P.S. Excellent idea using folders and duplicating them to make different image states! Here I was, duplicating individual text layers, so painfully slowly lmao

I thought about an introduction honestly... I guess I'm just bad at explaining things so I was hoping I could just get into it. I mostly assumed people looking for this tutorial would have a basic knowledge on imagemaps...maybe that was a bad assumption. So maybe I could take it down, redo it...start with something else. I wasn't trying to make imagemaps look like beginner material that you start seeing when you first use Ren'Py so I didn't mean to make it intimidating D:

See I knew that the first time around was going to be iffy so i needed feedback before I just kept doing the same thing. But yeah, another reason why I didn't include 'what hotspots are, how they're useful' etc is because again..I assumed someone just needed help envisioning their imagemap better. And already had knowledge...Hmm this is going to be hard.

[namastaii]

Gonna start off by saying this is a great idea. How a program that's been around this long and doesn't have hardly any video tutorials just baffles me. Kudo's on that.

Jumping right in. The first video is too long. I would recommend having all your text pre-made and sitting in a folder to show people rather then making them as you go along. Most people are already going to know what they need on the GUI and are more interested on how to make the imagemap it's self. Have all your fonts picked out already and make comments in passing if you have to but don't linger on design. A ten minute video is more helpful then having to skip through a 30 minute one to find the one thing they are looking for.

Second video. Mostly nit picks. It was easy to understand and you explained it well. Some real time comments,

Red font on purple background. I can't read that all.
Don't guess, get all your numbers figured out before you start. Just make a comment that people might have to play around to get it to fit properly. Or just do the first one.
You're spending a lot of time tweaking. You could cut out 7:00ish - 12:00 out completely.

lol And this is very much nit-pick, but maybe toss your desktop icons into a folder during your tuts. Super minor thing, but looks neater.

I don't know what firecat is talking about but this looks very very basic. Anything less then this can be learned in the tutorial that comes with the program. And most people looking for videos are going to want it certain more advanced things. That's why we look for videos.
The photoshop thing was fine. Most people have PS and the logic can be applied to most programs. I use Illustrator and I can duplicate 90% of what you did.

I actually prefer you deleting all the previous code. Makes things much neater and forces people learn what they are making. I would recommend sharing a copy of it in your documentation for us dyslexic people who will certainly typo something though. lol


Overall, I liked it and still thinks it's a great idea! My main recommendation would be pre-making all your written items and trying to keep your videos under 15 minutes. 10 would be ideal. For simple concepts at least. Great so far! I'm super excited for more.

// Quick edit. I'm going to toss my hat in for No background music that cocoberrie mentions. I tend to find them extremely distracting. No matter how soothing it is. But just my opinion.

You're right. I probably spent way too much time figuring out what I wanted and people don't want to see that. I would probably attempt skipping through those parts too.
Sorry about the red font. I didn't take that into consideration

I do believe that they probably need to see what it looks like to position at least one hotspot, so they understand what each number is for but I think you're right. I actually considered speeding through or cutting all that out but I wanted to include you could adopt certain numbers into your next hotspot to make life easier. I guess I could add an on-screen note or mention it in a redone video.

the desktop thing: I guess the reason i do that is because it's instant. I am going to be picking them up and moving them to my game folder right after I get out of the art program anyway.. so that's how I've always done it. Especially if I need to make updates and just want to quickly export another version of the image...and so ... I see what you're saying but I guess I didn't think too much about it o.o

Yes, I agree about starting with a clean slate. It's clean and you can see what's going on and I was definitely going to include documentation. A good idea would be to create the documentation before I make the video perhaps.

**Thanks for the feedback guys, this all really helps
I'm not the best at this obviously.

[chocoberrie]

I thought about an introduction honestly... I guess I'm just bad at explaining things so I was hoping I could just get into it. I mostly assumed people looking for this tutorial would have a basic knowledge on imagemaps...maybe that was a bad assumption. So maybe I could take it down, redo it...start with something else. I wasn't trying to make imagemaps look like beginner material that you start seeing when you first use Ren'Py so I didn't mean to make it intimidating D:

See I knew that the first time around was going to be iffy so i needed feedback before I just kept doing the same thing. But yeah, another reason why I didn't include 'what hotspots are, how they're useful' etc is because again..I assumed someone just needed help envisioning their imagemap better. And already had knowledge...Hmm this is going to be hard.

Ah no no, imagemaps aren't intimidating for me, personally! I already understand how imagemaps work (I wrote a giant tutorial series for it myself!)

I just meant that in general, I think complete beginners to Ren'Py would see all the code involved and panic haha. XD

Explaining things you already know to others who have no idea can be challenging! Of course, the amount of difficulty depends on the medium. I think using videos would be more of a challenge than writing it all out, imo. Don't get discouraged though! You can do it!