Legalities with Publishing Free VNs on Steam

[Godline]

As people know, we've been doing the initiative Visual Wordplay, in order to help Ren'Py dev's get their free to play games on Google Play. Visual Wordplay is publishing of sorts, but the game creators retain their rights.

I wanted to start the same initiative on Steam to allow the same people to get their free to play games on that platform, or at least go for Steam Greenlight and see what happens. Problem is, when I upload a game on there I need to check a box that I own the rights to the content.

How can it work legally if I publish for other people, and they still get to keep their rights?

Will the only way it could work if they sign something giving me rights to publish it?

And if I do find out there are no problems legally, who would like this service offered?

[firecat]

There are several problems, firstly certain countries will not allowed games to be published under certain laws like China censoring, south Korea PAT act, usa age ranking, etc. If you broke these laws one too many, it could mean the deletion of your account and possible bannd from steam.

You can publish peoples games if you are a real company, not a false one or individual. As steam required you to add real personal information, you also need to pay taxes to keep that company. There is no free legal way around it.

No, signing a contract means getting a lawyer which means you must keep getting different contacts for each person who might or might not be in USA.

Unknown to everyone steam required developers and publishers to sign a NDA, however steam can also reject developer for any reason. This can include young developer who are under 18 without parent's signature, country laws, etc.

Best idea, don't do it. Steam is evil, everyone will be better off without steam.

[Rossfellow]

Ask Vogue from Team11. SC2VN is a free VN that's seen overwhelming success on Steam. Furthermore, its fanwork, so he'll be able to tell you limits of certain licenses.

[SundownKid]

As people know, we've been doing the initiative Visual Wordplay, in order to help Ren'Py dev's get their free to play games on Google Play. Visual Wordplay is publishing of sorts, but the game creators retain their rights.

I wanted to start the same initiative on Steam to allow the same people to get their free to play games on that platform, or at least go for Steam Greenlight and see what happens. Problem is, when I upload a game on there I need to check a box that I own the rights to the content.

How can it work legally if I publish for other people, and they still get to keep their rights?

Will the only way it could work if they sign something giving me rights to publish it?

And if I do find out there are no problems legally, who would like this service offered?

Im guessing that if there is a checkbox like that, uploading a game you dont own the rights to is illegal under Steam TOS. It's pretty simple really, doing something like what you're planning on doing is against the rules and you will get kicked off. You will likely need to have them sign away their rights.

Best idea, don't do it. Steam is evil, everyone will be better off without steam.

Lol... Im guessing you weren't a PC gamer in the days before Steam. It was pretty abysmal to have to organize your installed games. Especially when your hard drive crashed and you lost all your save files. One of the main reasons people still used consoles over PC is because PC gaming was just far harder to manage... until Steam came along and made it easy. Valve isnt the most attentive company but calling it evil is ignoring the downsides of not having Steam.

Really that influences Valves current mindset. They dont think of Steam as a means to advertise games, just as a game organization tool.

[кролик девушка]

Best idea, don't do it. Steam is evil, everyone will be better off without steam.

Lol... Im guessing you weren't a PC gamer in the days before Steam. It was pretty abysmal to have to organize your installed games. Especially when your hard drive crashed and you lost all your save files. One of the main reasons people still used consoles over PC is because PC gaming was just far harder to manage... until Steam came along and made it easy. Valve isnt the most attentive company but calling it evil is ignoring the downsides of not having Steam.

Really that influences Valves current mindset. They dont think of Steam as a means to advertise games, just as a game organization tool.

too much propaganda steam can not run on my computer and Russia pirates them because it is too cost.

[firecat]

Lol... Im guessing you weren't a PC gamer in the days before Steam. It was pretty abysmal to have to organize your installed games. Especially when your hard drive crashed and you lost all your save files. One of the main reasons people still used consoles over PC is because PC gaming was just far harder to manage... until Steam came along and made it easy. Valve isnt the most attentive company but calling it evil is ignoring the downsides of not having Steam.

Really that influences Valves current mindset. They dont think of Steam as a means to advertise games, just as a game organization tool.

That is call Preaching, you didn't look at the bad stuff. Many developers are not have successful you are not given anything from Valve. As i said many many many times Valve breaks laws, no other company does this but Valve has done so in a way that the CEO should be in jail.

You in believing on one company, can have a negative outlook in your developer resume. I seen many who worked hard and did it without the bandwagon clingy work. This is not about steam being better, its about how many people were force to use steam because of people who praise a very misunderstood system.

[Rossfellow]

Look, nobody wants a repeat of the previous threads (two of which have gotten someone banned, by the way). The chance to argue whether OP should use Steam or not has long passed. That ship has sailed. This thread was created clearly because OP has decided she -wants- to use Steam, and needs advice from local forum people who publish there or at least a referral to someone she can consult.

How can it work legally if I publish for other people, and they still get to keep their rights?

Will the only way it could work if they sign something giving me rights to publish it?

Both of these are answered by the same thing: Contracts. You can look for other ways, but contracts will always be the strongest way to implement and enforce the agreement.

You will both need a contract that is very clear and very concise as to who gets what out of the deal. This is generally not arbitrary and is decided between everyone involved. Example, parties involved are X, Y, and Z. Can the game be modified or published elsewhere without the consent of all three? If so, who gets to decide what to do with the game without the others? List that down.

There are specific people who will tell you that contracts should be magical-looking documents inscribed in fancy gloss bristol pages in expensive suitcases and signed by a platinum fountain pen. There are others who will tell you that contracts can easily be faked and can never be authentic before the court of law. Both are overreported claims. Contracts over the internet are actually easier and can be done wherever a third party client is used to corroborate the agreement, be it Gmail, Yahoo, or even Facebook. Small Claims Court is much more inclined to believe chat logs than your word for it.

All this assumes the worst possible case scenario where one person violates his or her rights within the IP or work, or otherwise any reason that would justify legal action. Like if you didn't want the work to be published for profit but someone did it anyway, for example. This might not be likely, but its always good to take precaution.

Also, you'll need to enter another, separate contract with Steam to be able to use their publisher services, but that should be common sense by now.

And if I do find out there are no problems legally, who would like this service offered?

What puzzles me is why the creators wouldn't just publish the game themselves if they really wanted to. The only reason I can think of is that Steam is unavailable where he or she is, like кролик девушк, or because they are really, -really- protective of their private information.

[BáiYù]

I was just talking on twitter about VN publishers who are open to publishing feminist and LGBT-friendly games. One of the major VN publisher groups has a record of expressing the sentiment that anything that isn't a bishojo or yuri-for-men game isn't worth their time. I, for one, would greatly appreciate a more honest publishing company to present visual novels to the mainstream gaming market.

[Rossfellow]

I was just talking on twitter about VN publishers who are open to publishing feminist and LGBT-friendly games. One of the major VN publisher groups has a record of expressing the sentiment that anything that isn't a bishojo or yuri-for-men game isn't worth their time. I, for one, would greatly appreciate a more honest publishing company to present visual novels to the mainstream gaming market.

"They are not our target demographic" is pretty damn honest IMO. You won't be finding businessman suits in Victoria's Secret, for example, simply because this is not what they cater to. Panda Express isn't about to start adding sushi into its menu, either. In the same respect I won't expect JAST USA to suddenly cater where they don't want to. If it doesn't exist, someone is going to have to start it elsewhere.

I guess I can add demographic to the list of reasons why this service is needed.

Edit: To your defense, JAST's definition of "Visual Novel" is outdated by about a decade.

[Godline]

What puzzles me is why the creators wouldn't just publish the game themselves if they really wanted to. The only reason I can think of is that Steam is unavailable where he or she is, like кролик девушк, or because they are really, -really- protective of their private information.

The reason I'd be interested in doing it is because it's not easy for people to do it themselves. It's a lot of additional work and some may not be able to figure it all out.

That and paying the $100 fee can be a lot of money to put up one free game.

[Rossfellow]

What puzzles me is why the creators wouldn't just publish the game themselves if they really wanted to. The only reason I can think of is that Steam is unavailable where he or she is, like кролик девушк, or because they are really, -really- protective of their private information.

The reason I'd be interested in doing it is because it's not easy for people to do it themselves. It's a lot of additional work and some may not be able to figure it all out.

That and paying the $100 fee can be a lot of money to put up one free game.

That makes sense. The Completed Works section has no shortage of good work that could benefit from being on Steam's gallery, I suggest you poke the creators of ones you're particularly interested in.

[BáiYù]

I was just talking on twitter about VN publishers who are open to publishing feminist and LGBT-friendly games. One of the major VN publisher groups has a record of expressing the sentiment that anything that isn't a bishojo or yuri-for-men game isn't worth their time. I, for one, would greatly appreciate a more honest publishing company to present visual novels to the mainstream gaming market.

"They are not our target demographic" is pretty damn honest IMO. You won't be finding businessman suits in Victoria's Secret, for example, simply because this is not what they cater to. Panda Express isn't about to start adding sushi into its menu, either. In the same respect I won't expect JAST USA to suddenly cater where they don't want to. If it doesn't exist, someone is going to have to start it elsewhere.

I guess I can add demographic to the list of reasons why this service is needed.

Edit: To your defense, JAST's definition of "Visual Novel" is outdated by about a decade.

Oh lol, when I said honest I meant something more without in-house drama about immature men crying over insignificant things. But let's not get off-topic.

OP, are you planning to publish on Steam under "Visual Wordplay" as well? I couldn't find any articles about any of the legal stuff involved, but it might be a good idea to set up a formal website to list all the games you've published on Google Play and eventually Steam. I'd also recommending getting in touch with Barzini, they have experience and may be able to help you.

[firecat]

I was just talking on twitter about VN publishers who are open to publishing feminist and LGBT-friendly games. One of the major VN publisher groups has a record of expressing the sentiment that anything that isn't a bishojo or yuri-for-men game isn't worth their time. I, for one, would greatly appreciate a more honest publishing company to present visual novels to the mainstream gaming market.

"They are not our target demographic" is pretty damn honest IMO. You won't be finding businessman suits in Victoria's Secret, for example, simply because this is not what they cater to. Panda Express isn't about to start adding sushi into its menu, either. In the same respect I won't expect JAST USA to suddenly cater where they don't want to. If it doesn't exist, someone is going to have to start it elsewhere.

I guess I can add demographic to the list of reasons why this service is needed.

Edit: To your defense, JAST's definition of "Visual Novel" is outdated by about a decade.

Oh lol, when I said honest I meant something more without in-house drama about immature men crying over insignificant things. But let's not get off-topic.

OP, are you planning to publish on Steam under "Visual Wordplay" as well? I couldn't find any articles about any of the legal stuff involved, but it might be a good idea to set up a formal website to list all the games you've published on Google Play and eventually Steam. I'd also recommending getting in touch with Barzini, they have experience and may be able to help you.

I don't think you still get the picture, if godline breaks any rules, incident or not. It can mean the banned of all her games not just one. She will only be allowed to upload people's games if she has a contract otherwise it is illegal to claim that she made it under Steam NDA. All this headache can stop if she does not go forward on uploading free games on Steam.

Also PR does not have anything to do with laws.

[Rossfellow]

I don't think you still get the picture, if godline breaks any rules, incident or not. It can mean the banned of all her games not just one. She will only be allowed to upload people's games if she has a contract otherwise it is illegal to claim that she made it under Steam NDA. All this headache can stop if she does not go forward on uploading free games on Steam.

Your "Big Picture" is common sense that OP already knows and has done before. She should know by now what the responsibilities of publishing someone else's work are. That is not an impediment to using Steam.

The whole point of this thread is that she wants to publish other people's games while the creators keep the rights to the work, which means she never had any intention to claim that she made it. This is similar to the Production Assistant's role in an animation studio. They run around putting all the paperwork and networking together so the artists can just focus on animating. This is a good service to offer. Don't kill it.

You just pulled the Steam NDA out of wherever because it's so unrelated to this that I have to assume you just needed something to throw. Steam NDA is about the secrecy of games in closed beta or alpha tests. Of course you get penalized for violating it. The logic of this boils down to "You shouldn't use the Public Library because it punishes you for giving away a borrowed book". My seven year old niece knows that. Give OP some credit.

Edit: After some more digging Steam's publisher NDA actually covers any agreements between the gamedev group and Steam/Valve before the game is released, though the point still stands. Break a rule, pay for it.

I don't know what Steam did to you but this needs to stop. Seriously.

[juunishi master]

How can it work legally if I publish for other people, and they still get to keep their rights?

^ the only answer I could think about this one is "by becoming a publisher".

A publisher as in like Sekai Project, Culture Select, AGM Playism, etc. CMIIW, but as far as I know there are many publishers that focused on licensing and publishing only, not developing their own game. Also, Steam always separate "Developer" and "Publisher" in the game details (e.g. Title: One Small Fore At A Time, Developer: Kidalang, Publisher: Culture Select, Release Date: 10 Juni 2016), so it'd be clear who really made the game.

But, well, I don't know what's needed to be a valid publisher in Steam.

@Rossfellow: Did you find anything related to "becoming a publisher" in Steam's NDA?