Uneven character endings

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Shinoki
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Uneven character endings

#1 Post by Shinoki »

I've seen that many people seem not to like 'true endings' because of how it seems to make all the other endings pointless or because of length/content disparities. However, what about differences between the 'good'-ness of a character's endings?

What is your opinion on a visual novel where one character has visibly happier endings than another character?

(Like: if Character A has a Good/Happy Ending and Neutral Ending, but Character B only has a Neutral Ending and a Downer Ending.)

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Re: Uneven character endings

#2 Post by CSV »

Opinion: I dislike downer endings as the only ending for a character route, since I tend to see those as a sort of "game over", i.e., I chose the wrong options while playing. Maybe you could make it work if it was a tragedy, in which case you could have a downer ending as the true ending, but it seems you don't want to rely on the true ending trope.
Furthermore, I also avoid games that have "uneven" endings such as you described. I feel cheated if character A has a good ending and character B doesn't, particularly if character B turns out to be my favorite.
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Re: Uneven character endings

#3 Post by trooper6 »

I don't like true endings (i.e. the author telling me that this ending is real and this one is fake.)

I don't care if an ending is happy, sad, or neutral.

I want the endings the be as long or short as they need to be to tell the story. And I want all endings to be give respect by the author. Don't throw in a half-assed ending you don't care about just because you think it should be there.

I want my endings a) to not be arbitrary and b) to be honest.

I don't like it when I make a bunch of choices that point towards one conclusion, but then I get some other conclusion. Like if I pick no romance options and the author gives me a romance option in the end anyway. Or if I pick all of the careful, safe options and the end the author shoehorns in there involves the character going down in a violent spray of bullets. It feels both arbitrary and dishonest.

Don't pretend to give me choices if the choices don't matter (unless this lack of agency is the thematic point of the game). Don't give me endings that are unearned or non-sensical. If all the foreshadowing and theme and choice telegraphs a sad ending... I'll be irritated if the game ends with a phoney Hollywood ending. If the game is light-hearted and heading towards a story of triumph...I'll be irritated with a thematically inconsistent downer ending.

The ending should be appropriate to the game.

Another note: I don't like equating death or loss with a "bad ending"'and romance and victory with a "good ending." Sidney Carton died at the end of A Tale of Two Cities, and that was a good ending. The couples get back together at the end of Cosí fan Tutti, but the Peter Sellars production of that opera makes it seem really bad that happened.

I want my endings to be good in terms of quality.
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Re: Uneven character endings

#4 Post by Caveat Lector »

That depends on what your definition of a "good-ness ending" for a character is. Is it getting what they want or need or deserve? Is it discovering they actually needed or wanted something else entirely? Is it finding true love and happiness, or learning how to survive with the odds life dealt them? Even then, however, you'd also need to balance it with game mechanics and tying them all together.

If Character A seems to get a happier ending than Character B, ask why, and vice versa (one example that comes off the top of my head is the otome game Nicole--you can end up dating the culprit behind the kidnappings, or the other love interests, and while you'll get a more traditionally "happy" ending with the other love interests, the culprit's ending is more bittersweet, because that's the only way it really CAN be, realistically speaking). However, I'd rather see an outright downer ending or bittersweet ending than a "neutral ending", because I want to see some kind of catharsis or pay-off--be it joy, sadness, shock, anger, etc.--and have it feel right.
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Re: Uneven character endings

#5 Post by SundownKid »

Well, the answer to that depends on the story, but assuming I am "going with" a certain character then there is some degree of liking them so I would probably be pissed if they got the short end of the stick.

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Re: Uneven character endings

#6 Post by YonYonYon »

I will be pissed if every character won't get an even amount of endings. Otherwise it'll feel like breaking a pattern and also it'll feel unfair

I will be more okay if it's not a character driven story tho. But if it's not a character driven story why there would be separate routes/endings for characters?

I'm trying to say, know what's appropriate for the story you're telling
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Re: Uneven character endings

#7 Post by DarkClaymore »

It strongly depends on the exact story, but I think any level of "happiness" is acceptable as long as it makes sense in term of storytelling. For example, it may be a story with the message/theme of "Try hard and don't pick the easy way out". In such a story, if there's a heroine who starts out with a very problematic life, then you might get a happy ending if you try hard enough to be with her. On the other hand, if you pick a happy-go-lucky heroine instead, then you might experience a more tragic ending because you went for the "easy" target. The two endings are on the opposite scale of "happiness", but they "make sense" as far as your theme is concerns.

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Re: Uneven character endings

#8 Post by E-night »

Theoretically I am all for it, but in pratice you run a big risk of irritating the fans of that character who gets the short end of the stick.

I think you need to ask yourself why there is a difference, and be honest with yourself. If you are just playing favorite because you don't really like a character then maybe that character needs to be cut.

Two good reason for why.
It is a mystery and X is the secret bad guy/killer/thief/what ever crime was done and clearing the the mystery automatically make end bittersweet because the protagonist now have to choose between justice and love/friendship (which they didn't on the other routes).

Character X is a an antagonist/villain and the other characters are not. That automatically make the obstacles on that path different because X is tematically different from the get go.

The character is otherwise simply different from the other characters. For example. I am currently working on a cog (another medium) and one character is mechanically a little different from the others. All the other characters have equal friendship/romance paths because I find that important, but X only have a romance or enemies. That is because X's hook in the story is about selfishnees and meant to question the whole 'dating catwoman' trope.

So I guess my point is ask youself why. There might be a good reason, but be aware of it and be honest about it, both to yourself but also to your audience.

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Re: Uneven character endings

#9 Post by MoonByte »

I have no issue with "True Endings" if it is a serial game.
Fatal Frame would come to mind. Yes, the happy endings (if you could call them that) are sadly not the "true" endings as the following games will show, BUT if you just play game X, you will never know which one is the true ending and which isn't.

I usually avoid the whole "True Ending", "Downer Ending" thing by simply not calling them that and instead giving the endings a number and a name (such as "Ending 3: A New Beginning"). Whether its happy, neutral or not is up to the player to decide, I will not define that by labeling it as such. I mean, what I may see as bittersweet could be seen as a downer ending by others. I maybe find it cute that the two best friends will never see each other again, but always have letter contact and remain friends, others will see this as a utter failure and that they had done something bad. Telling them that they did good will only make it worse.

The only exception would maybe be the Golden Ending.
Simply because a Golden Ending is supposed to be a happy ending for EVERYONE (except for maybe the pure-evil Big Bad). MC is happy, all his possible lovers are happy, the neighbors cat is happy. No one can argue that it is a good and happy ending.
But I would always try to be careful with all the other kinds of endings.


BUT but but buuuuuut
YOU as the creator have the last word.
IF you feel like telling your audience that the ending where the MC dies a heroic sacrifice to stop the vampire aliens from destroying the bees, then it is your right to do so, no matter how much the audience may dislike it. You naturally may get critique for it, but you made the game, it was one of your design choices and while people can complain, they will not be able to change it.
Same goes for uneven endings. Sure, it may suck balls for the players, but if Character C just CAN'T be happy, then that may just be how it is. It's all up to you as the creator in the end, no matter how much people may hate it.
Most throw the audience a bone and add a non-canon happy end in such cases, but hey, no one can force you to.

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Re: Uneven character endings

#10 Post by Schwartzlicht »

Hrm, I was wondering about this.
On my project, I thought to have two "main" routes (Char A and Char B), and a "hidden" route (Char C) available once you clear the first two.

Each character would have three bad endings (failing to trigger Event 1, failing to trigger Event 2, failing to trigger both, or losing any fight (since it takes place in one day, recovery from a beatdown would take too long). A and B would have one "neutral" ending, where the hero saves the day, parts of the puzzle are revealed, but certain things go missing. On C's ending, all pieces of the puzzle are there and the final catastrophe is avoided.

I don't think A and B not having a happy end is a bad thing per se, since they contribute to make the happy end, well, happier.

But then again, this is my first game ever.
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