[RESOLVED] Where should games with optional 18+ content be?

[N0UGHTS]

I thought maybe this was the best place to put this. I probably screwed up on that choice. XD

Let's say one is making a game with optional 18+ content, Hah! So much for those of you who thought I was making a game with no CGs! CV = Character Voice...
where would you post it? Works in Progress and Recruitment, or Hentai Woks in Progress and Recruitment? And of course, when it's done, Completed Games section, or the Completed Hentai Games section? Or do I have to release a separate, no 18+ content here version that'll be put into the non-Hentai sections?

...That's really all I have to ask.

Just wanted to clarify the thread title... I have no idea why. :p

[Mikan]

+18 section.
better yet, just post it and see if it stays. It's easy for an administrator to move threads around.

[PyTom]

Games with _any_ H content should go in the hentai section. We don't want any hot coffee here.

H is roughly defined as:
- Depictions of the lower genitals on men or women.
- Text that explicitly describes the same.

So it's possible to have a game with a shower scene, or even a sex scene, that isn't hentai. There's a difference between R and NC-17 rated movies, although it's hard to precisely define which is which.

I also ask people try not to push the limit, or hide content. Ratings are fundamentally a good thing, as they give us some protection from upset parents and such. (So tell me, why did _you_ let your kid download a game that was clearly marked 18+.) If we hide things in games, we lose such protection.

[N0UGHTS]

Ah, I see. A precaution against Jack Thompson-style complaints, huh? All right.

[PyTom]

Ah, I see. A precaution against Jack Thompson-style complaints, huh? All right.

Well, it's not even that. It's just basic decency, that you don't try to hide hentai or other potentially inappropriate material in a game.

[N0UGHTS]

Huh? Decency? Oh yeah, decency. Though I've lost my integrity a long time ago...

0_0 Hide? It almost sounds like I wanted to deceive people. Not this time, no. I just wanted the game to be more accessible to a wider audience, but yes, I see your point, and looking over at some of the content that's not H, maybe this game wouldn't be so teen-friendly anyway. :laughs:

[DaFool]

Optional H content is a no-no. Go with your full vision. Most people who don't like H would avoid the work altogether anyway.

I generally use the Tokyopop revised definitions:

A = All Ages
Cartoon Violence
Potty Humor
Slapstick Humor

Y = 10+
Mild Language
Fantasy Violence
Bullying

T = Teens 13+
Moderate Language
Aggression
Mild Violence
Mild Gore
Crude Humor
Sexual Innuendo
Mild Sexual language
Non-sexual Nondescript Nudity
Mild Sexuality/Sexual Themes
Mild Fanservice
Tobacco Use/Reference
Alcohol Reference
Illegal Drug Reference
Occultism

OT = Older Teens 16+
Strong Language
Moderate Sexual Language
Moderate Violence
Moderate Sexual Violence
Moderate Gore
Non-sexual Partial Nudity
Non-sexual - Full Body Nudity
Sexual-Partial Nudity
Sexual Nondescript Nudity
Sexual Humor
Representation of Pornography
Moderate Sexuality/Sexual Themes
Moderate Fanservice
Alcohol Use
Illegal Drug Use

M = Mature 18 + (shrink wrapped; content advisory label on cover)
Excessive Language
Explicit Sexual Language
Intense Violence
Explicit Sexual Violence
Excessive Gore
Sexual Full Body Nudity
Explicit Sexuality/Sexual Themes
Incest
Explicit fanservice

As someone responsible for the hentai initiative on LSF, I feel obligated to define the standards I use. Now of course I've retired from hentai, but still want to create works for older audience.

[monele]

Uhh, if the story could still be interesting without the sex, I really wouldn't mind an option. I'd totally turn the H off something like Fate/Stay.

[Mihel]

We don't want any hot coffee here.

Aww... I was looking forward to Caramel Mokaccino...

Also, I personally am not into hentai so much, but I would play a lot more H games if I could turn off or otherwise skip the sex scenes (not least of all because they're often so much more terribly written than the regular scenes, especially in commercial games... I will never look at a mollusk the same way again...).

[Vatina]

I disagree with DaFool.... since if that were the case, I would never have played something like Tsukihime. The english patch that let me play the game without the h-content, still gave me what I think was a full and nice experience of the game. Does that mean it should have been absolute h, or absolute non-h?

So I'm with Monele on this one.

[DaFool]

If the story could work just as well without H, then it should have been without H from the very beginning.

The majority of Japanese VNs have H tacked on merely to sell. Some or a lot of them can do without.

As independent non-Japanese (mostly non-commercial) creators, we don't have the pressure to sell. Therefore, if you're even asking if H is necessary, then it isn't. If it is, then include it and don't be apologetic about it.

This ain't Burger King where the customers must have their own way.

[monele]

Ohh, so you were saying optional H is a no-no as in "if it's optional, why put it in the first place"?

[Vatina]

Yeah, that makes sense. I believe so too, and it's really too bad - I guess my instant reply just came from the fact that most of the time when you bring "optional H-content" up in the other side of the fandom (those who play translated japanese games, not OELVN) a lot of people react as if they're ready to lynch you, like you were trying to steal something from them <_<

But I'm getting off topic here... sorry about that.

[Sin]

H is never optional. If I had to pick between a nude and a non-nude version of the same game it goes against my religion to pick the non-nude.

[N0UGHTS]

Ohh, so you were saying optional H is a no-no as in "if it's optional, why put it in the first place"?

...I'm thinking that when Explicit Sex Scenes are Off, the player wouldn't see what was happening... There'd still be dialogue, but they wouldn't see what was exactly happening. Like maybe the CGs would be of the background or like that CG in Ori, Ochi, Onoe... Or maybe with Scenes Off it'd just have shots of their eyes are something. I don't know yet. :p