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Before anything I want to say that this is just my opinion. I'm not saying your art is bad or that you should change how you draw if you feel that this post applies to you. I'm merely giving advice based on a combination of what I think looks nice as well as what I've seen become successful.

There are many beautiful art styles that don't translate well to sprites. These styles tend to be more realistic or complex ones. They can also be ones with particular colouring techniques. Although that doesn't mean all realistic or complex art will make bad sprites, just that most of the good art that doesn't make good sprites I've seen have been in those two categories.

For example, lineless art usually doesn't translate well to sprites. This doesn't mean that lineless art is bad, in fact I actually very much enjoy lineless art as stand-alone pictures. However, as sprites lineless characters can often blend into the background or not "pop out".

If you feel as if you agree with this and want to make your character art be more strong as sprite art, you don't necessarily have to change your entire style, you probably only have to make a few adjustments. In fact, it would probably be a good idea to keep your original style for CGs.

An example of a visual novel that changes their style between sprites and CGs is Dangan Ronpa.

The "CG" style:



This art style has soft, paint-like shading. The lines range from opaque, to translucent, to non-existent. The colours and shading are a big part of this style and are heavily effected by their environment. They probably wouldn't fit well next to most backgrounds.

The "sprite" style:



Let's look at the sprite art. It's a bit simpler. The shading is mostly cell shading instead of soft, the lines are black and clearly visible. The colours aren't affected by the environment because these sprites will be in many different environments so it's best to keep them simple. These sprites pop out just enough to draw your eye to them, but not so much that they look out of place.

As you can see both of these art styles are similar enough to look like they're from the same game and make the characters are recognizable. They are also different enough to make the CGs and sprites look better than if the CGs used the sprite art or vice versa.

In conclusion just because your art is good doesn't mean it will be a good sprite, and just because your art doesn't look good as a sprite doesn't mean it's bad art. Again, this is just my opinion and advice.

Please give me your feedback on whether I was too harsh or mean on this post and if you agree with it. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, I just want to help improve people's art. Thanks for reading!

I freaking hate komaeda btw I just couldn't find many DR pictures under 800 pixels wide

I think painterly style works very well as sprites, just that cel-shades with thick lines are much easier(faster) to make, and a lot cheaper(can make more) to produce. This is mostly due in part to the border cleaning and anti-aliasing. It's a lot more consuming to clean up the edges of a meticulously detailed artwork, never mind a game that uses lots of them, but they do exist.

What really determines whether a specific style works is how well it mixes with your backgrounds. As a VN or RPG developer, if you use sprites+BG as part of your UI, not only do you have to seek out artists that fit your work, you also need their styles to be compatible with each other.

Good Examples:
____________

Muramasa Rebirth (or any Vanillaware game)



In a very Kabuki-like fashion, the story is told entirely by sprites and dialogue, which is used to great effect as story scenes directly transition into the gameplay. Note that the sprites are meant to have this painted feel to them, which blends very well with the background and adds to the atmosphere.
____________

Tokyo Twilight: Ghost Hunters


I have often voiced my distaste of this game for many reasons, but its gorgeous presentation isn't one of them.
____________

Steins;Gate


Perhaps the most mainstream AA+ Visual Novel to ever be localized, it uses Huke's filter-heavy experimental style complemented by similarly filtered backgrounds.
____________

Corpse Party 2: Dead Patient


I know, I know, the sprites are clearly Cel-shaded 2D! But note how well it blends with its cartoony, light pastel-colored 3D background.
_____________
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (PS2)


Another 2D sprite game! This time its cast on a painted background that shares the softness of the colors of the sprites. The point I'm trying to make here will be clear with my next examples.
_____________

The following are examples of Cel-shaded sprites that are ruined by their inability to blend into the background.

Corpse Party: Blood Drive


Ironically coming from the same franchise as the one I just listed above, the "realistic" textures on the 3D background clashes violently with the supposedly all-fitting 2D anime style. It's at the point where I honestly think removing the 2D sprites from the game would improve it.

_____________

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (Steam version)


Despite the impressively "up-to-date" pixiv moe style art the sprites have, it becomes very jarring to look at because the blurry photo filter background does a poor job of giving the sprites a sense of versimilitude. Conversely, the sprites' mismatching art style does a poor job of contributing to the atmosphere created by the background. The only saving grace here is that if you've made it this far into the game, you're already too invested in the story itself to care for its poor use of auxiliary assets.

_____________

It's a bit clumsy, but I hope I've made my point. I sincerely believe that taking the extra effort to make sure different styles work with one another really adds to the quality of the finished product, and I wish to apply what I learn to my own project one day.

Within the understanding that it is only your opinion, as well as mine, I'll toss what I think in the hat.

I completely disagree with said notion. It just sounds like you prefer a sharper appearance to sprites. That is fine, everyone have their preferences, but to go so far to tell someone "Don't use this." is extremely arrogant. Like Rossfellow said, it depends on your art style.

And by disregarding the "realistic" you ignore the very successful Western sister to the Japanese VN. The Mystery Point and Click. The West's answer to the story driven game. You will be far searched to find one that isn't done in a realism style.

You're trying to limit an art by telling people what they can and cannot do. We need to push the boundaries or we're going to get the same crappy low quality moe shit that's been around for years. We're not making Japanese VNs. Yes we're inspired by them, but we can't limit ourselves by always copying the same things they do.

Have you ever seen Love At First Sight? It uses "painterly" sprites like the ones in the Danganronpa cutscenes, and I think they still look pretty darn good. Although, it's a style that seems more dark and fitting to horror type games.

Ultimately I think any art can make a good sprite as long as it's good art.

SundownKid wrote: Ultimately I think any art can make a good sprite as long as it's good art.

This is how I feel as well. I've seen so many really different art styles being used in Western VNs. If the art is good, I think it'll work. The big thing I think needs to be thought about, as Rossfellow so importantly points out, is that the project lead really needs to makes sure that the sprites, the BGs, the CGs, and the GUI all have art styles the fit well together.

An interesting theory, Periwinkle, but I have to agree with what others are saying about painterly/lineless sprites. It is very dependent on the project, and overall style thereof.

I will say that I agree with you about the simplicity of sprites, however... they need to be adaptable to a variety of scenes and backgrounds, and therefore you shouldn't go overboard with shading/highlights/ect, or it will likely clash (i.e., background has lighting from one source, sprite has lighting from a completely different source).

I also agree with Rossfellow and trooper6 on finding a balance between art styles of the BG, sprites, CG's, ect... but in my humble opinion, CG's are a treat, and should have a slightly different feel to them than the sprites. I get excited when I see projects with two or more artists, because you are likely to see some interesting character collaboration.

Relevant, since you love Komaeda so much, Periwinkle. ;P

I think a couple of things are mixed up here : getting a separation between the foreground (sprites) and background, avoiding that sprites look like "cardboard cutouts" and conflicting art styles.

A separation between foreground and background can be achieved with lines but it's certainly not the only way. What if both the sprites and background are drawn with heavy crosshatching? In such a case a difference in value or color might be called for. In the end, separation is achieved by contrast (lines, value, color, saturation, texture). Photographers don't have the luxury of different styles for the foreground and background. They make use of lighting or focus to avoid the foreground being swamped by the background (putting lights on the parts of the foreground where the background is dark, shadows where the background is light, for example). The "rim light" is something photographers use that can be seen in visual novels as well (a light outline around the character). There's the composition of the shot itself also, of course.

Sprites can appear to be completely separated from the background in a bad way too. This isn't much of a problem if the sprites are very near to the player (close up shot) but when they're further back they're expected to be part of their surroundings. The sprites should follow the same perspective, have an indication of a cast shadow (if the background makes use of shadows as well), etc. The higurashi example showed how such things can go wrong, not only are those filtered photos a very different thing than the sprites, the background and sprites also had different viewpoints.

I feel that art styles are allowed to be very different but the methods to indicate certain visual properties should be the same. I don't think it's a good idea to use cross hatching to indicate shading in a sprite and use realistic color shading in the background. It will separate the foreground very strongly from the background.

Worse : using cross hatching and realistic color shading at the same time on the same object (like a sprite). The cross hatching will no longer indicate shades, it will just look like lines. As a counter example : the work of Paolo Eleuteri Serpieri (a.k.a. "The Master of the Ass"). He uses cross hatching and colors for shading at the same time. But his cross hatching is very fine, almost like a texture and his colors are only broadly indicating shading. It's more like he fine-tunes his colors with cross hatching and uses the cross hatching only in the shadows.

I believe that, in the end, it's very much a convention. After all : using lines to indicate edges is a convention too.

I think the important thing is consistency and being explicit in your choices.

And, of course, if it pleases the eye then it's always good

KittyWills wrote:Within the understanding that it is only your opinion, as well as mine, I'll toss what I think in the hat.

I completely disagree with said notion. It just sounds like you prefer a sharper appearance to sprites. That is fine, everyone have their preferences, but to go so far to tell someone "Don't use this." is extremely arrogant. Like Rossfellow said, it depends on your art style.

And by disregarding the "realistic" you ignore the very successful Western sister to the Japanese VN. The Mystery Point and Click. The West's answer to the story driven game. You will be far searched to find one that isn't done in a realism style.

You're trying to limit an art by telling people what they can and cannot do. We need to push the boundaries or we're going to get the same crappy low quality moe shit that's been around for years. We're not making Japanese VNs. Yes we're inspired by them, but we can't limit ourselves by always copying the same things they do.

I'm sorry that you didn't like the post. I wasn't at all trying to limit what people can and cant do, numerous times throughout the post I've said this is just my opinion and that you don't have to change for me.

Where have I said I only like moe or anime style? If anything, I prefer western art to anime. I just said simplicity works best. Now by simplicity I don't mean only cell shading - the reason I bought up cell shading was for that specific example. By simplicity I mean less extreme and dramatic art, due to the fact that it doesn't match up with some locations. This of course, has exceptions, such as if your game only takes place in a few locations which all have the general same lighting and colours.
For example, you wouldn't want a character sprite that is drawn as if their lit by a fire pit at night to be in a sunny location, it will look out of place.

I think what I meant as realistic isn't how you perceived it. I'm talking about more on the traditional painting photo-realistic side. This is because it's hard to draw a photorealistic sprite who's colouring isn't affected by their environment much, it will also often look out of place. Art with realistic proportions, facial structure, and all that stuff can look great as sprites (would this be semi-realistic? i'm not the best at wording stuff). I think I more meant colouring as opposed to the general structure of a drawing.

I actually had a hard time finding many non-pixelated western point and click games with visual novel style sprites. Most of the sprites were a part of their environment like most video games, in opaque or translucent boxes, or the sprites weren't shown at all aside from in CGs or GUI screens. These are all great ways to put sprites into a game. However, this post was addressing visual novel sprites, more specifically ren'py.

I think the reason that you assumed I was some (for lack of a better word) weeaboo who wanted all art to be anime was because I only used anime examples.
Here are some more western examples:


These images, even the more realistic one, are coloured simply. They also have defined outlines, so they don't blend into the background.

The original post wasn't a personal attack on anyone, nor was it me trying to be arrogant.

SundownKid wrote:Have you ever seen Love At First Sight? It uses "painterly" sprites like the ones in the Danganronpa cutscenes, and I think they still look pretty darn good. Although, it's a style that seems more dark and fitting to horror type games.

Ultimately I think any art can make a good sprite as long as it's good art.

It does have painterly shading, but the outlines are defined as to not blend into the background (which I see a lot of painting art do) also, the colours are simple and can match in anywhere

I wasn't saying sprites had to follow all my rules to be good, more as it was advice and tips on how to make a good sprite and things to keep in mind.

(Sidenote: the art in that visual novel was nice, but the writing wasn't. If I had to describe it in one word it would be redundant.)

Rossfellow wrote:I think painterly style works very well as sprites, just that cel-shades with thick lines are much easier(faster) to make, and a lot cheaper(can make more) to produce. This is mostly due in part to the border cleaning and anti-aliasing. It's a lot more consuming to clean up the edges of a meticulously detailed artwork, never mind a game that uses lots of them, but they do exist.

What really determines whether a specific style works is how well it mixes with your backgrounds. As a VN or RPG developer, if you use sprites+BG as part of your UI, not only do you have to seek out artists that fit your work, you also need their styles to be compatible with each other.

Good Examples:
____________

Muramasa Rebirth (or any Vanillaware game)



In a very Kabuki-like fashion, the story is told entirely by sprites and dialogue, which is used to great effect as story scenes directly transition into the gameplay. Note that the sprites are meant to have this painted feel to them, which blends very well with the background and adds to the atmosphere.
____________

Tokyo Twilight: Ghost Hunters


I have often voiced my distaste of this game for many reasons, but its gorgeous presentation isn't one of them.
____________

Steins;Gate


Perhaps the most mainstream AA+ Visual Novel to ever be localized, it uses Huke's filter-heavy experimental style complemented by similarly filtered backgrounds.
____________

Corpse Party 2: Dead Patient


I know, I know, the sprites are clearly Cel-shaded 2D! But note how well it blends with its cartoony, light pastel-colored 3D background.
_____________
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (PS2)


Another 2D sprite game! This time its cast on a painted background that shares the softness of the colors of the sprites. The point I'm trying to make here will be clear with my next examples.
_____________

The following are examples of Cel-shaded sprites that are ruined by their inability to blend into the background.

Corpse Party: Blood Drive


Ironically coming from the same franchise as the one I just listed above, the "realistic" textures on the 3D background clashes violently with the supposedly all-fitting 2D anime style. It's at the point where I honestly think removing the 2D sprites from the game would improve it.

_____________

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (Steam version)


Despite the impressively "up-to-date" pixiv moe style art the sprites have, it becomes very jarring to look at because the blurry photo filter background does a poor job of giving the sprites a sense of versimilitude. Conversely, the sprites' mismatching art style does a poor job of contributing to the atmosphere created by the background. The only saving grace here is that if you've made it this far into the game, you're already too invested in the story itself to care for its poor use of auxiliary assets.

_____________

It's a bit clumsy, but I hope I've made my point. I sincerely believe that taking the extra effort to make sure different styles work with one another really adds to the quality of the finished product, and I wish to apply what I learn to my own project one day.

I agree. You worded this a lot better than I could and also bought up lots of new points that I never considered.

SexBomb wrote:An interesting theory, Periwinkle, but I have to agree with what others are saying about painterly/lineless sprites. It is very dependent on the project, and overall style thereof.

I will say that I agree with you about the simplicity of sprites, however... they need to be adaptable to a variety of scenes and backgrounds, and therefore you shouldn't go overboard with shading/highlights/ect, or it will likely clash (i.e., background has lighting from one source, sprite has lighting from a completely different source).

I also agree with Rossfellow and trooper6 on finding a balance between art styles of the BG, sprites, CG's, ect... but in my humble opinion, CG's are a treat, and should have a slightly different feel to them than the sprites. I get excited when I see projects with two or more artists, because you are likely to see some interesting character collaboration.

Relevant, since you love Komaeda so much, Periwinkle. ;P

True. I love your art style btw! I'm pretty sure I've seen your art before on tumblr or something so you must be a pretty popular artist

Fuseblower wrote:I think a couple of things are mixed up here : getting a separation between the foreground (sprites) and background, avoiding that sprites look like "cardboard cutouts" and conflicting art styles.

A separation between foreground and background can be achieved with lines but it's certainly not the only way. What if both the sprites and background are drawn with heavy crosshatching? In such a case a difference in value or color might be called for. In the end, separation is achieved by contrast (lines, value, color, saturation, texture). Photographers don't have the luxury of different styles for the foreground and background. They make use of lighting or focus to avoid the foreground being swamped by the background (putting lights on the parts of the foreground where the background is dark, shadows where the background is light, for example). The "rim light" is something photographers use that can be seen in visual novels as well (a light outline around the character). There's the composition of the shot itself also, of course.

Sprites can appear to be completely separated from the background in a bad way too. This isn't much of a problem if the sprites are very near to the player (close up shot) but when they're further back they're expected to be part of their surroundings. The sprites should follow the same perspective, have an indication of a cast shadow (if the background makes use of shadows as well), etc. The higurashi example showed how such things can go wrong, not only are those filtered photos a very different thing than the sprites, the background and sprites also had different viewpoints.

I feel that art styles are allowed to be very different but the methods to indicate certain visual properties should be the same. I don't think it's a good idea to use cross hatching to indicate shading in a sprite and use realistic color shading in the background. It will separate the foreground very strongly from the background.

Worse : using cross hatching and realistic color shading at the same time on the same object (like a sprite). The cross hatching will no longer indicate shades, it will just look like lines. As a counter example : the work of Paolo Eleuteri Serpieri (a.k.a. "The Master of the Ass"). He uses cross hatching and colors for shading at the same time. But his cross hatching is very fine, almost like a texture and his colors are only broadly indicating shading. It's more like he fine-tunes his colors with cross hatching and uses the cross hatching only in the shadows.

I believe that, in the end, it's very much a convention. After all : using lines to indicate edges is a convention too.

I think the important thing is consistency and being explicit in your choices.

And, of course, if it pleases the eye then it's always good

True. You good at giving art advice :p

Unrelated to your post: I feel like the way I worded my post made it seem like I only approve of anime styles or that I thought all sprite art had to follow my exact advice, instead of the advice just being mostly my general observations. That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry in general that my post was poorly worded

No, it's all right, I think this is a discussion worth having. The one thing I'd add to the topic, is that it's more of a matter of styles clashing or going together, much like what RossFellow was saying with his provided examples. One example you brought up, as a Western OELVN example, was Cinders. The style for that one works, because of a few factors: It's meant to be styled after the kind of drawings you'd find in an illustrated fairytale book, the style of the sprites matches the style of the background, etc.

As far as I see, in the end it's a matter of having a well defined aesthetic for the whole game, and being careful when composing your art assets. Pretty much all of the "bad" examples shown here fail at one of these points.