Visual novel content (ESRB standards)

[Sonomi]

I'm writing a visual novel and I wish to target a 17+ rating, but I am not entirely sure it will work. Could someone help explain ESRB's ratings to me, perhaps with an example of a game with that rating and why for reference? In particular, what exactly is appropriate under a 17+ category? The reason this is bothering me is because I want to create a WIP here soon, but I don't want to accidentally use the wrong tag or post in the wrong section.

[firecat]

the M rated games are for anything that is realistic violence, blood, gore, sexual content and strong language.

Battlefield 1 is a great example even though people under 15 play this. Multiplayer aside, the missions the game gives and cutscenes you see are close to the real WWI experience which many have called it "one of the deadliest conflicts in history".

Hitman is M rated and rightfully so, blood, deaths, real ways to kill people and real weapons are too much.

So why are they not AO? well that is up to debate but mostly why would be because we know the difference between real and fake. BF1 while nearly real, it is not that real, not with the respawn spam people can use. Hitman tricks are only real for one person not many groups of people that fear ISIS and spies aren't real (we think).

Teen ranking is fun nearly unrealistic. Great example would be magic since we know its not real. FFXV falls into this because while its fun using magic, it can mislead younger kids about unreal stuff. The kids could get hurt playing teen rated games by just believing in something like being saved by superman or jumping in a pool leading to Narnia.

[truefaiterman]

As far as I've seen, Adults Only happens when you show explicit sex, genitalia and all. I've never seen a game getting an AO classification for anything language, horror or drugs related, for example. And the only time I've seen a game getting this rate for violent content, it wasn't about the content as much as about the context behind it (Hatred, a game where you play as a psycho who snaps and goes to massacre as many innocent people as possible). The format also changes a lot, I've seen games that featured rape and its consequences getting a T rating because the artstyle was more on the cartoony side and they didn't show anything too explicit. And you even have something like Corpse Party on the 3DS, where it shows two naked teens humping, but doesn't feel like a big deal because they're represented by little RPGMaker-style pixel sprites.

So, TL,DR version, if the artstyle is not completely realistic and you don't go full porn, you should be able to put pretty much whatever you want on your game.

[indoneko]

If I create a game which characters are represented as animals (cats/dogs) and they hump at each other (in sexual context), will it be rated as Mature? Or is genitalia and explicit sex only count when the characters are human (or human-like) ?

On the other hand, if I show a half naked girl with ahegao face (or whatever suggestive image you can imagine) but without any sexual context at all, will it be rated as mature as well?

[Mammon]

Explicit sex and visualised full nudity seem to be the only solid line between <18 and 18+, all the other ratings and factors always seem to be with a grain of salt. You also need to keep in mind that the USA is actually quite prudish with their movies and legal advisement compared to most other western countries when it comes to cursing. Deadpool being Rated-R because of dickjokes and a single nude strippers scene? (If the nudity is boobs only, it's 16+ I believe)? And for a VN, which are static images (if CG at all) even for the most gruesome of scenes, there is much less actual shock and thus the audience's opinion seems to be even more loose and flexible still.

A trend I see is that the developer seems to take a higher age rating just to be sure while the audience won't really care all that much to begin with even if they're not yet this age. The developer, with the worst case scenario in mind and being wary of their game's reception, tends to see this as more important than the gamer who'll see the bloody +15 scene as a not that shocking. Thanks to the internet, many have seen a lot worse.

I actually made a thread over this when I wasn't sure about whether a scene that I implemented would make it 18+ rather than 16+. There is no nudity but due to the content of that scene I was very wary of whether I could actually maintain the non-adult rating. I think RotGtIE's post would also be informative for you.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=37122

I would not recommend attempting to blur the lines regarding sexually explicit content. Many times in erotica, such scenes have more than one purpose, and they may not even necessarily include arousing the viewer. In Saya no Uta, one of these scenes is used specifically to demonstrate the depravity to which Fuminori and Saya sink in their quest to entertain their own romantic isolationist delusions, yet there is no way to avoid the reality that the scene is sexually explicit to a degree which would be inappropriate for an audience who is unwilling - or would be unwilling, if they were aware ahead of time - to read or view sexually explicit content.

Now I bark up and down the tree insisting that sexually explicit content should not receive pariah-like treatment in the world of art, and I am strongly opposed to the practice of issuing trigger warnings, but the audience still deserves a relatively fair heads-up as to what kind of content they can expect out of a story before they decide to commit time or monetary resources to it. By that, I mean to say that in the same way a horror movie advertises in its trailer that you can expect it to attempt to frighten you, it should be made clear enough for an ordinary and reasonable person to conclude from the synopsis, trailer, demo, or other teaser content as to what kind of things - generally speaking, without directly spoiling the events - they can expect from your story.

Since you likely live in a western country whose legal or ratings systems classify sexually explicit or pornographic content as being 18+, that is what people will expect if you rate it as such, and by consequence, it is what they will NOT expect if you label your work 16+. Now I realize that you have gone to a great effort to emphasize a tone which discourages sexual assault, but it will be very hard for you to argue that a scene which goes into detail about an attempted - and from the sound of it, partially successful - groping, complete with an upskirt camera angle CG or frame, is not pornographic in effect, even if undeniably not in intent.

I think you know you're testing the line at this point, or you wouldn't be asking. Although I haven't read the entire scene or viewed all of the associated illustrations, I am willing to presume based on what you've presented that what you have put together could be convincingly argued as being sexually explicit adult content. I don't know how you're planning to distribute your work, but if you're trying to greenlight it for sale or distribution via a service which does not allow pornographic content (i.e. Steam) then I would strongly recommend against testing the waters in this way. You don't want to wind up becoming "the guy who tried to peddle rape porn to underage kids," regardless of whether a statement like that would be misleading or flat-out untrue of your work. It's just hard to defend yourself against that kind of accusation once it's made.

The underlined text is probably the most important sentence here, as it sums everything up quite nicely.

If I create a game which characters are represented as animals (cats/dogs) and they hump at each other (in sexual context), will it be rated as Mature? Or is genitalia and explicit sex only count when the characters are human (or human-like) ?

On the other hand, if I show a half naked girl with ahegao face (or whatever suggestive image you can imagine) but without any sexual context at all, will it be rated as mature as well?

Really depends on how explicit the animals have sex. If it has explicit visuals then it goes 18+ and fetish territory right away. Also, it seems like these animals are actual characters based of your description rather than just pets, so that too makes them more human-like.

[firecat]

@truefaiterman
@indoneko

art does count, as said before if your character is not doing something that everyone agrees is sex then you only need to worry if this is ok to show for kids. one of my characters looks like the devil, while there is no religion or evil behind his actions, many people do expect the devil to be not safe for kids. this is my ranking i got from it:

https://www.plurk.com/p/lytktm

kids having actual sex should have been rated M like another game did back on NES day. I even hear that corpse party remove some blood and awful cutscenes to make it teen raking. so i don't know why ESRB rated T but they are only human. half naked girl with ahegao face, ya good luck selling that on certain countries like AU, india, some parts in EU, russia, etc, you do not want to openly show "pressure" to everyone. sure it helps with adult sells but many of the sells comes from teens because they will do anything for it while adults will consider it or not buy it.

[indoneko]

@firecat : so you are saying that as long as the visual depiction doesn't have any sexual element in it, it would be safe to be rated as teen even if the context is rather ambiguous?

[firecat]

@firecat : so you are saying that as long as the visual depiction doesn't have any sexual element in it, it would be safe to be rated as teen even if the context is rather ambiguous?

yes, just look a Overwatch characters (dev.a, (whats her name that teleports people) and tracer). its not sexy, only a few people think its sexy which is fine.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UEYp1RTvllM/maxresdefault.jpg

Tales of Zestiria, it has stuff which many of us called it fanservice. the game is not actively pushing the idea of sex but lets users know that this is an acceptable thing to do in a beach.

http://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamers ... SCS_01.jpg

the characters in these pictures wear clothing which are fine for anyone to see:
http://67.media.tumblr.com/bb940121c218 ... 3_1280.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... b57a88.jpg

last example includes Tales of Hearts R... they cover the characters to make it teen rated because there is no way any teen would be turn on by it.
https://youtu.be/7vljz7FtsoY?t=10m35s

happens often on many vn games, mostly with other ideas like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT23VBohgNE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvJRfcp3ZWE

https://youtu.be/oeDB1WDePas?t=24m35s

this should give you an idea about teen rating and how far you can go. heck my game got a teen rank for using this character.
http://imgur.com/a/sxzKz

[rito]

I'm interested in this topic too. I'm working on a story that contains sex scenes, and am wondering how much is acceptable in a game not rated 18+. I mean, you know how there are many levels of detail for sex in romance novels? It has to go to great lengths to be considered, and sold as, erotica. Movies show sex all the time too, and at least where I live I've seen a sex scene with tiddies get a T rating. Yet, it seems like anything warrants a M or 18+ rating for games from some of what was said above... I guess it also varies a lot by country?

[SundownKid]

If I create a game which characters are represented as animals (cats/dogs) and they hump at each other (in sexual context), will it be rated as Mature? Or is genitalia and explicit sex only count when the characters are human (or human-like) ?

On the other hand, if I show a half naked girl with ahegao face (or whatever suggestive image you can imagine) but without any sexual context at all, will it be rated as mature as well?

In the first example it's really depending on whether it's intended in a humorous way or whether it's... well.. not.

The ESRB has said that Nudity is a Mature rating, but not Adults Only. That's reserved for explicit sex.

[truefaiterman]

I have to remember that OP asked about ESRB standards. Every rating system has its own measures, and they can be extremely different between them. For example, while ESRB accepts nudity for an M rating, the Japanese ZERO system won't allow it at all, and there's a chance the German USK and PEGI give the game a +15/+16 if the content is not focused on sex. At the same time, violence is more accepted in ESRB while USK can completely ban the game in Germany. So yeah, you can't expect uniformity here.

Also, regarding firecat's issue with Australia... dude, the ACB is not the ESRB xD Their M rating is NOT +17, but +15
(It's not that surprising if the rating is still higher than usual, though, the ACB is well known to be extremely strict. They didn't even have a +18 rating until a few years ago)

Also, let's remember that the OP WANTS the game to be M rated, so let's try and not mix everything and everywhere.

About Indoneko's question, I think SundownKid summs it up pretty well

[Sonomi]

Thank you, everyone. A few of you mentioned that visuals are the key factor in raising the rating. So it seems 17+ should be fine so long as scenes are censored accordingly, in terms of artwork and presentation. I don't have any CG that could be considered explicit at this stage.

When it comes to the writing, I'm at more of an impasse. Imagery (taste, scent, touch, sight, sound) is important to me as a reader. I like seeing how characters react to and experience the story. My VN isn't fantasy or anything unrealistic, so that could be another factor. I know that firecat spoke to this earlier, stating that explicit portrayal of realistic scenes, be it gore or intimacy, can also make a work inappropriate for a younger audience. I believe the creators of Dangan Ronpa notably changed the color of blood in the game to pink for this reason. Word choice is paramount, I suppose, when it comes to writing content.

RotGtIE's quote in Mammon's post makes me wonder if I really should continue trying to maintain a 17+ rating. I certainly don't wish to blur lines. I feel it may be more beneficial for both reader and writer if I alter my initial rating. With everything that has been brought to my attention, it just makes sense to do so.