Best way to start recruiting? - Keeping a team together?

[Fluxx]

It's been a while since I've been here.

I haven't been active on my novel thread, but I've been working off and on with the worldbuilding and universe behind my stories. I think I wasn't ready for a big commitment and I knew that trying to get a lot of people to work on my project would be a bad idea. After having previous attempts to recruit an editor and multiple writers fall apart - because of my lack of commitment, I found myself a bit hesitant to try again.

However, I know I wouldn't release a decent demo within an acceptable amount of time without the help of others. So... I'm here again. I've learned a bit. Such as less is more and writing first is better. But I still want to try my hand at it again.

Obviously this time around, I'll probably cast a smaller net, with one person per job, during the beginning. I'm not sure how to approach it, though. If anything, I think all I'll ask for is an artist and maybe a programmer.

The only issue is figuring out how often the group should keep in contact. Particularly because I have things I should be doing in RL and I'm working on multiple projects. Would people have issues if we weren't constantly communicating every day? Stuff like that.

I'm rambling - but I'm really looking for advice. For people that write while working with a group - instead of waiting to finish the script before development.

[Zelan]

It does depend on the person, but most people don't say that you have to check in every day as long as you communicate fairly frequently. It also helps to establish standards and stick to them whenever possible. Me, for example: the team that I'm in is working on a VN, but very slowly. We all acknowledge that everyone on the team has a busy life, so our "standards" are not strict in terms of what needs to be done. Essentially, we need to check in with each other so that everyone knows that we haven't disappeared and work on the project in whatever spare time we have. However, this is a very slow pace and probably wouldn't suit everyone else.

Another team might have something like "writer must write 10k words a week and artist must have 1 sprite/background/whatever done a week unless they have a good reason not to be able to work; all members must check in at least once a week." These standards should be decided on by the group and made clear so that everyone knows what's expected.

Even then, sometimes members just won't be right for a group and they'll drop out even if you try to keep the team together. At this point, it's best to just let those members go and search for suitable replacements.

[RotGtIE]

If you build it, they will come.

[Fluxx]

It does depend on the person, but most people don't say that you have to check in every day as long as you communicate fairly frequently. It also helps to establish standards and stick to them whenever possible. Me, for example: the team that I'm in is working on a VN, but very slowly. We all acknowledge that everyone on the team has a busy life, so our "standards" are not strict in terms of what needs to be done. Essentially, we need to check in with each other so that everyone knows that we haven't disappeared and work on the project in whatever spare time we have. However, this is a very slow pace and probably wouldn't suit everyone else.

Another team might have something like "writer must write 10k words a week and artist must have 1 sprite/background/whatever done a week unless they have a good reason not to be able to work; all members must check in at least once a week." These standards should be decided on by the group and made clear so that everyone knows what's expected.

Even then, sometimes members just won't be right for a group and they'll drop out even if you try to keep the team together. At this point, it's best to just let those members go and search for suitable replacements.

Thanks for the advice Zelan. Perhaps I should make it known that the creation process would be slow and relaxed compared to hectic and fast paced. But see I'm not sure how many people should be a part of the team then. It's like if the demo isn't even finished or put Ren'py is a musician really necessary ? I also don't want to burn people out by recruiting them too early - or have them get bored with the project.

If you build it, they will come.

I understand that. I'm looking for the best way to go about doing it. I could release scripts on the idea thread or demos without art and/or music but I'm not sure that's the way to go.

I see you have a bunch of filled positions on your idea thread. Do the positions that are underused at the time of development mind at all? Maybe having a manager would be helpful for me, personally.

[RotGtIE]

I understand that. I'm looking for the best way to go about doing it. I could release scripts on the idea thread or demos without art and/or music but I'm not sure that's the way to go.

The best thing you can do is complete your script as a standalone novel before everything else. I strongly recommend that your first hire be an editor for your script so that you can get it into a finished state before you start building the project upon it. Once you have your completed script, take it from its novel format and convert it into a screenplay format, wherein all assets and stage directions are detailed. Using your screenplay, you can build documents containing all the asset needs based on what the screenplay calls for. From those lists, you can task your asset creators.

In order to attract collaborators to your project once you are ready for them, you will need to be able to provide them with a hook to provoke their interest (just as you would do with the audience anyway) and sample excerpts from the script itself. The hook in your project thread is a good start, but it needs to convey the important details more clearly and with more brevity. Think of the They Fight Crime synopsis generator - you really need to get the main draw of your story out before the average audience member's attention span is gone, and that's not long enough to say much. Just get out the basics: what is most noteworthy about the main character(s), and what are they going to do in this story? Cut your synopsis down to that, and push it out the door.

For asset creators, they just want clear guidance. That's why you should have your asset needs planned out before you recruit them. Have references ready when they start asking you for more details about what's needed of them. Nobody wants to work on something and then have to double back and do something over or make adjustments because something needed to change. And since nobody likes waiting either, it's best to have your needs lined up and ready before you even contact asset creators.

I see you have a bunch of filled positions on your idea thread. Do the positions that are underused at the time of development mind at all? Maybe having a manager would be helpful for me, personally.

Some assets are completed much faster than others. Writing and illustrations take the longest, whereas audio assets seem to be the fastest ones made. Programming is probably the most dependent on other assets being made first - although a programmer can work without ready-made assets by using placeholders instead, they still will benefit from having exact instructions about what to implement into the final product.

I'd say the best way to prepare for the possibility of your not being able to keep a team on board for the full development cycle of the project is to focus less on who you need and more on what you need. For illustrators, you should establish an artstyle that can be consistently produced by those who are in your price range. For composers, again, choose a genre of music and then start looking for people who can make music to suit it. It would be beneficial to you if your programmer worked in a program that someone else can also pick up and help to finish, and even if you hire a writer, you should be able to refer to the writing style of an author so that the writer knows what to aim for. If you orient your project around the people contributing to it, you will be in a rough spot if one of them ceases to be a part of that project for whatever reason. On the other hand, if you define the project's needs by common deliverables, you can always replace or supplement a contributor without losing consistency in those deliverables.

If you focus on what you need instead of who you need, you can fill positions when they are needed and not have to worry about whether a particular contributor is going to be active for the entirety of the development process. And because of that, you can pick up freelancers only for as long as they need to complete their tasking and then release them to continue their business with others unimpeded. It's a fairly convenient process for everyone involved.

You probably don't need a manager so much as someone to show you how to manage the project yourself. I use a mixture of spreadsheets, lists, and guidance documents for simplicity's sake. Your mileage may vary.

[Fluxx]

The best thing you can do is complete your script as a standalone novel before everything else. I strongly recommend that your first hire be an editor for your script so that you can get it into a finished state before you start building the project upon it. Once you have your completed script, take it from its novel format and convert it into a screenplay format, wherein all assets and stage directions are detailed. Using your screenplay, you can build documents containing all the asset needs based on what the screenplay calls for. From those lists, you can task your asset creators.

In order to attract collaborators to your project once you are ready for them, you will need to be able to provide them with a hook to provoke their interest (just as you would do with the audience anyway) and sample excerpts from the script itself. The hook in your project thread is a good start, but it needs to convey the important details more clearly and with more brevity. Think of the They Fight Crime synopsis generator - you really need to get the main draw of your story out before the average audience member's attention span is gone, and that's not long enough to say much. Just get out the basics: what is most noteworthy about the main character(s), and what are they going to do in this story? Cut your synopsis down to that, and push it out the door.

For asset creators, they just want clear guidance. That's why you should have your asset needs planned out before you recruit them. Have references ready when they start asking you for more details about what's needed of them. Nobody wants to work on something and then have to double back and do something over or make adjustments because something needed to change. And since nobody likes waiting either, it's best to have your needs lined up and ready before you even contact asset creators.

Some assets are completed much faster than others. Writing and illustrations take the longest, whereas audio assets seem to be the fastest ones made. Programming is probably the most dependent on other assets being made first - although a programmer can work without ready-made assets by using placeholders instead, they still will benefit from having exact instructions about what to implement into the final product.

Thanks for the advice, this covers a lot. I don't want to wait but it seems with writing done it makes everything a bit easier and no one is left wondering what they should be doing, even for a demo. Huh, gives me a lot to think about. As for my actual hook, are you saying I should condense it?

I'd say the best way to prepare for the possibility of your not being able to keep a team on board for the full development cycle of the project is to focus less on who you need and more on what you need. For illustrators, you should establish an artstyle that can be consistently produced by those who are in your price range. For composers, again, choose a genre of music and then start looking for people who can make music to suit it. It would be beneficial to you if your programmer worked in a program that someone else can also pick up and help to finish, and even if you hire a writer, you should be able to refer to the writing style of an author so that the writer knows what to aim for. If you orient your project around the people contributing to it, you will be in a rough spot if one of them ceases to be a part of that project for whatever reason. On the other hand, if you define the project's needs by common deliverables, you can always replace or supplement a contributor without losing consistency in those deliverables.

If you focus on what you need instead of who you need, you can fill positions when they are needed and not have to worry about whether a particular contributor is going to be active for the entirety of the development process. And because of that, you can pick up freelancers only for as long as they need to complete their tasking and then release them to continue their business with others unimpeded. It's a fairly convenient process for everyone involved.


You probably don't need a manager so much as someone to show you how to manage the project yourself. I use a mixture of spreadsheets, lists, and guidance documents for simplicity's sake. Your mileage may vary.

Again good advice. It saves the time of everyone. I'm not really worried about people dropping out that much as I'm willing to stick with the project until it's finished or even do everything myself, but having people do tasks I'm not good at would make things easier. I'm gonna have to rethink my process a bit.

[RotGtIE]

Thanks for the advice, this covers a lot. I don't want to wait but it seems with writing done it makes everything a bit easier and no one is left wondering what they should be doing, even for a demo. Huh, gives me a lot to think about.

More than a bit. A lot more. The difference is massive. It's not impossible to build your asset planning documents without having a script ready, but I would only suggest it for those who have already gone through this process once with a completed script at the ready. You would still need to use a highly detailed set of chapter and scene summaries for the asset planning documents to draw from, but without having had the experience of using a finished script to do it once, I'd put money on the odds that a first-time developer will make mistakes in their estimation of what's going to be needed.

As for my actual hook, are you saying I should condense it?

Yes. Be as concise as possible. Expand your definition of what qualifies as extraneous information. Your hook has exactly one job: get someone to think "Okay, you got me. I'm listening." You can fill in a bit more of the details with a short synopsis after the hook, but it's the hook's role to get your prospective audience interested enough to seek further information in the first place. Something like this:

Long ago, [heroine] rescued Marcus from certain death, granting him the gift of [his superpower] before parting ways with him. Now they have reunited in an alternate universe, and she is prepared to offer him even greater powers beyond his wildest dreams - if he is willing to pay the price to have them.

Now, I can't possibly know more about your story than you do, but I was able to pluck a few details out of your hook that could be covered later. We don't really need to know about their childhood friendship in the hook because the matter of her saving his life and granting him super powers are far more interesting. It's a similar matter with the school - audiences are more likely to focus on interdimensional travel as the most interesting thing about the setting, rather than that it is connected to an academic environment, which is a much more mundane detail.

Think of it like a Michael Bay movie trailer - just put all the explodey stuff in their faces right away. You can answer their questions once they're in the theater.

[Fluxx]

I'll adjust the hook when I have time. It's probably more important for me to continue writing.

More than a bit. A lot more. The difference is massive. It's not impossible to build your asset planning documents without having a script ready, but I would only suggest it for those who have already gone through this process once with a completed script at the ready. You would still need to use a highly detailed set of chapter and scene summaries for the asset planning documents to draw from, but without having had the experience of using a finished script to do it once, I'd put money on the odds that a first-time developer will make mistakes in their estimation of what's going to be needed.

Your asset documents - are separate from the script? How thorough are you, how do you list your needs?

[Adventure Cow]

Seconding the suggestion to complete your script before you bring people on board. Consider that your asset needs will likely change as you continue to develop and revise the script, especially if you're still in the early stages of writing. it's an inefficient use of time and energy to have people create assets that might not end up being used in the game. You can always use placeholder images or sound if you want a rough idea of how the script plays, and then hire freelancers to create actual assets.

Another choice is to find an actual artist partner/collaborator who works with you in a more symbiotic process, where both parties are willing to let the art influence the writing and vice versa. Failing that, completing the script and then getting people to create what you need is probably your best bet. You can likely worry about the logistics of that after you're done writing your first draft at the very least.

[RotGtIE]

Your asset documents - are separate from the script? How thorough are you, how do you list your needs?

To answer your questions in order: yes, agonizingly, and with spreadsheets.

My process involves having a lot of tabs open at once. The first one is the script in its novel format, and the second is the screenplay document. One ADV or NVL block at a time, I'll pull sections from the novel until a particular scene is done. With each block, I'll transfer a section of text, then I'll go to the top of it and start adding stage directions before, during, and after it. Then it's just on to the next block in the same way. For example, this:

"Not until tomorrow,” I reminded her, “when the expedition's fleet makes anchor. And even then, the ones who come to drink might not be so interested in tales and lore as in unruly merriment!"

"Hush, you'll curse our fortune." She waved her hand, as if needing to physically swat the notion away. "But of course, you'll be quite occupied yourself, won't you?"

"Indeed. Between Paisley and the Baron's work, I think I'll be too tasked to work nights at the Wine and Song for some time, sorry to say."

Hearing what she knew was coming, Myra crossed her arms and pouted again. "Sorry, indeed! A hound hearing a dinner bell would be challenged to match your spirit about Deacon's new treasures. Surely you'll have forgotten we common folk within the week!"

Becomes this:

REPLACE: CG_Myra_Insunlight_Cheerful with BG_PAISLEYS_Workshop_Sunset
FADE IN: Sprite_Lucas_HandsOnHips_CheerfulSpeaking (Position 2, from left), Sprite_Myra_CrossedArms_Cheerful (Position 7, from right)

ADV: "Not until tomorrow,” I reminded her, “when the expedition's fleet makes anchor. And even then, the ones who come to drink might not be so interested in tales and lore as in unruly merriment!"

REPLACE: Sprite_Myra_CrossedArms_Cheerful with Sprite_Myra_Swatting_Sighing, Sprite_Lucas_HandsOnHips_CheerfulSpeaking with Sprite_Lucas_HandsOnHips_Cheerful

ADV: "Hush, you'll curse our fortune." She waved her hand, as if needing to physically swat the notion away. [REPLACE: Sprite_Myra_Swatting_Sighing with Sprite_Myra_HoldingArm_Apologizing] "But of course, you'll be quite occupied yourself, won't you?"

REPLACE: Sprite_Lucas_Standing_HandsOnHips_Cheerful with Sprite_Lucas_HandsOnHips_Apologizing, Sprite_Myra_HoldingArm_Apologizing with Sprite_Myra_HoldingArm_Cheerful

ADV: "Indeed. Between Paisley and the Baron's work, I think I'll be too tasked for working nights at the Wine and Song for some time, sorry to say."

REPLACE: Sprite_Myra_HoldingArm_Cheerful with Sprite_Myra_CrossedArms_Pouting, Sprite_Lucas_HandsOnHips_Apologizing with Sprite_Lucas_HandsOnHips_Cheerful

ADV: Hearing what she knew was coming, Myra crossed her arms and pouted again. "Sorry, indeed! A hound hearing a dinner bell would be challenged to match your spirit about Deacon's new treasures. Surely you'll have forgotten we common folk within the week!"

Every time the screenplay calls for a new asset, I'll open up a tab for the spreadsheet listing those assets and add every new one. As you can see, I use a naming convention which breaks each asset into components, starting with the type of asset (SPRITE/BG/CG/FRAME for illustrations, BGM/SFX for audio, and so on). For BGs, CGs, and Frames, it's a simple matter of BG/CG/FRAME_NameOfScene_Variant. For Sprites, it's SPRITE_Character_Pose_Expression. For audio, it's a simple matter of BGM/SFX_WhateverTheSoundIs. Because of the tiered format, I use a nested approach for listing the visual assets. If necessary, I'll add a column giving a brief description of the assets being listed.

So the whole process is pretty mechanical. Ctrl+C from the novel, ADV + Ctrl+V into the screenplay, add stage directions with named assets, add new assets to asset planning spreadsheets, then repeat the process with the next ADV/NVL block. Continue until done with the current scene, then repeat the process for the next scene until the chapter is done. Then repeat the process for the next chapter. Then pass out, wake up, and do it again for the next one. Et cetera ad nauseum.

[Fluxx]

Every time the screenplay calls for a new asset, I'll open up a tab for the spreadsheet listing those assets and add every new one. As you can see, I use a naming convention which breaks each asset into components, starting with the type of asset (SPRITE/BG/CG/FRAME for illustrations, BGM/SFX for audio, and so on). For BGs, CGs, and Frames, it's a simple matter of BG/CG/FRAME_NameOfScene_Variant. For Sprites, it's SPRITE_Character_Pose_Expression. For audio, it's a simple matter of BGM/SFX_WhateverTheSoundIs. Because of the tiered format, I use a nested approach for listing the visual assets. If necessary, I'll add a column giving a brief description of the assets being listed.

So the whole process is pretty mechanical. Ctrl+C from the novel, ADV + Ctrl+V into the screenplay, add stage directions with named assets, add new assets to asset planning spreadsheets, then repeat the process with the next ADV/NVL block. Continue until done with the current scene, then repeat the process for the next scene until the chapter is done. Then repeat the process for the next chapter. Then pass out, wake up, and do it again for the next one. Et cetera ad nauseum.

So I've been trying to absorb this, but I'm confused here.

Let me see if I have this right.
So have a Novel Doc, A screenplay Doc, an assets spreadsheet(s), a needed asset (Spread?)sheet(s).
1) You paste the novel into the screenplay sheet.
2) (Paste?) Stage directions and Finished assets in between screenplay.
3) If New asset is needed - note on need asset sheet(s).
4) Note newly finished assets to regular assets spreadsheet(s).
5) Add to screenplay with stage directions
- Repeat -

Questions:
- I'm assuming you have different spreadsheets for each type of asset?
- You don't go through the whole novel first before figuring out your assets? Just step by step?
- When finished how do approach your collaborators - Tally up what you need and then tell them? I guess that line of description would be helpful here.

nested approach

Can I get an (visual) example of this? You can PM me.

[storykween]

Keeping a team together and on the same page may be one of the most difficult aspects of game development, at least for me. Not trying to be discouraging - just stating it as a fact :p

Once you have your script prepared and your team members recruited, I suggest using the free Trello service ( https://trello.com/ ) to post and track tasks for each member of your team (including yourself). This is a great way to keep everyone on the same page and check up on what other members of the team are working on without having to contact them directly on a daily basis.

On top of that, I would suggest having a meeting with your whole team at least once a week, perhaps through a service like Skype or Discord. It's another way to keep everyone on the same track and encourage people to report some sort of progress at least once a week.

Best of luck on your project!

[RotGtIE]

Let me see if I have this right.
So have a Novel Doc, A screenplay Doc, an assets spreadsheet(s), a needed asset (Spread?)sheet(s).

You don't need separate spreadsheets to indicate which assets are available versus which ones are yet to be produced. You can use a column to indicate that.

1) You paste the novel into the screenplay sheet.

Yup.

2) (Paste?) Stage directions and Finished assets in between screenplay.

The only thing you'll really be pasting into the screenplay document is the prose itself, and that works best when you do it piece-by-piece. Generally, you'll grab a paragraph from your prose, paste it in as a stage direction indicating that the text will be showing up in a NVL or ADV block (hence ADV: blah blah blah), and then you'll read over what's in that ADV block to determine what should be happening in the actual visual novel just before, during, and after the block. Which sprites should appear or change, what sounds or music should begin playing or stop, what scene transitions to make - you'll basically be writing every stage direction in yourself, so that the screenplay serves as a clear set of instructions for your programmer (even if that is yourself). You'll populate your asset planning spreadsheets while you are doing this, and you'll be able to refer back to those spreadsheets when it comes time to call upon an asset that has already been planned for.

3) If New asset is needed - note on need asset sheet(s).
4) Note newly finished assets to regular assets spreadsheet(s).

Asset production isn't inherently a part of the production planning process. That can happen either afterward, or in tandem with it. It's more work to maintain two separate spreadsheets just to indicate which assets are ready to be implemented and which ones are only planned, so I would recommend instead just using a column in each asset planning spreadsheet to handle that.

5) Add to screenplay with stage directions

Your screenplay primarily feeds into your asset planning documents, not the other way around - even though this will see-saw in the other direction as you fill your asset planning spreadsheets as you will find with increasing frequency that an asset you need will have already been planned for. The process is more like "I'm writing a stage direction here, it needs something like blahblah...do I already have one of those planned? Yes? Okay, I'll use that. No? Okay, I'll add it to the list." Then repeat.

Questions:
- I'm assuming you have different spreadsheets for each type of asset?

Yes. I use separate spreadsheets for BGM, SFX, Frames/CGs, BGs, and Sprites.

- You don't go through the whole novel first before figuring out your assets? Just step by step?

Depending on how comfortable you are with the process, you can build your asset planning documents using only your prose before making screenplay documents, or you can use the summary of your story before writing the prose, but I wouldn't recommend it until you've done the process longform at least once. You can hold off on commissioning assets until after all of your screenplay and asset planning documents are complete, or you can start commissioning assets while you're partway through the process - as long as you can keep up and stay ahead of your asset producers, there won't be any problems with starting the asset production before you're done with the planning. Again, it should depend on your experience and confidence level.

- When finished how do approach your collaborators - Tally up what you need and then tell them? I guess that line of description would be helpful here.

I commission asset production in manageable bundles. I'll generally commission a handful of assets at a time, and I'll do it by going through my screenplay documents, referring back to the asset planning spreadsheets to see what is and isn't completed, and tossing yet-to-be-completed assets into informal contracts which I will then present to whomever I will be working with. Going into the screenplay document isn't necessary at this stage, but it has a couple of benefits. It allows you to complete your asset list in order of appearance in the VN, which makes it easier for you to finish enough of it to complete a demo or similar partial release. It also jogs your memory about exactly what the asset being called for needs to do and what that part of the story reads like, and that will help you communicate exactly what you need when commissioning the work that's needed.

nested approach

Can I get an (visual) example of this? You can PM me.

Here's an example from one of the minor characters of DMB. There are a couple of things to note here - chiefly, I didn't bother separating his character from his pose in the pose column. I would use a separate column for a character who has multiple distinct appearances beyond poses, such as a character with different costumes. Apart from that, it's pretty much the same format of Character_Pose_Expression for every character who needs sprites. I'm using an additional column called "Features" because there are a lot of times in this particular VN when characters have very minor alterations beyond their expression - things like clothing being slightly weathered or bloodied, or a face being lightly bearded on a character who is normally clean-shaven. Those would be tacked on with an underscore after the expression in the same way that expressions are tacked on after the pose. Overall, the goal is pretty simple - for complex assets which have multiple components, as sprites do, you can just tier what is needed based on the level of work required for each part. The whole pose is usually where the bulk of the price for sprites comes from, followed by expressions for each pose, hence the nested approach to asset planning. This makes it easy for you to present detailed and specific asset needs to your artists so they can give you fair quotes.

[FriendlySenpai]

Keeping a team together and on the same page may be one of the most difficult aspects of game development, at least for me. Not trying to be discouraging - just stating it as a fact :p

Once you have your script prepared and your team members recruited, I suggest using the free Trello service ( https://trello.com/ ) to post and track tasks for each member of your team (including yourself). This is a great way to keep everyone on the same page and check up on what other members of the team are working on without having to contact them directly on a daily basis.

On top of that, I would suggest having a meeting with your whole team at least once a week, perhaps through a service like Skype or Discord. It's another way to keep everyone on the same track and encourage people to report some sort of progress at least once a week.

Best of luck on your project!

I second all of this I use Trello for all sorts of project management, both in game development and with my other jobs, and it makes it so easy to set monthly/weekly goals for everyone.

And apps like Skype and Discord not only allow you to keep in contact with your team so you can address issues all at once rather than on a one-by-one basis, but it also allows them to talk to each other. Like, my artists can talk to each other and make sure that their styles mesh well with the assets they're creating, especially when the character artist is working on CGs and has to make sure that the background she makes isn't different from the background the BGA made. I would especially recommend Discord over Skype, just because it's more reliable. Skype has an annoying habit of not working.

Also, it's just nice to be able to work as a team and be able to talk to everyone when you want.

[Fluxx]

RotGtIE - I'm curious is there a reason that you write in novel format first instead of a screenplay first? Actually, you don't seem to label the characters at all. Which is weird since your sample is ADV. Unless you don't want people to see the names of characters?