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Megaman Z
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#106 Post by Megaman Z » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:00 pm

how far off-topic are we now? (or is there even an actual topic?)
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ShiraiJunichi
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#107 Post by ShiraiJunichi » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:38 pm

Seriously now, I'm pretty sure BL was just kidding, but I'm curious to know if Mikey was serious or not...

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#108 Post by mikey » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:27 pm

I wasn't serious.

There's a lot of discussion going on now, popularity, quality and so on. You can't deny the popularity of hentai-anything is so much higher than ren'ai-anything. But it's a normal thing, really. It's like complaining that a sex site is more popular than your "tips for a stable relationship" website. It always will be. So from time to time I guess it's okay to sigh at it all, but fighting it isn't an option.

Sure a parody like that would be fun, but as for me, it would be more or less a waste of time. It may be that it would really be a hit, but what would be the use for me? I don't really need to prove anything to the (let's say) hentai flash community.

So from time to time such general discussion will arise and more or less everyone will express their "hentai flash - not for me" opinion, and it's nice to know that as a part of the community most of us go by the same values.

It can become annoying and dangerous though if the focus shifts and suddenly it's more about yes to this, no to that. Starting work on a parody designed to just show the stereotypes of the industry and community in general would (for me) feel like losing the focus - I want to tell ren'ai stories, not have a satirical look at the industry. It would feel more like a journalist's work than a creative piece. Most of all, I fear I wouldn't have that great feeling whenever a project is complete and you see your idea actually have a form.

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#109 Post by musical74 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:54 pm

I'm sure BL wasn't serious either...

One thing I has noticed is that those that come here searching for hentai only tend to disappear very quickly. When I DL a game I look for 4 things: 1) how big it is (because I have dialup large games take forever to DL) 2) Characters and development 3) music/sound effects, and 4) replayability. Most hentai games fall very short in #2 and #4.

Which reminds me...I need to DL TOL, Marry Me, Misato, Moonlight Walks, and all those others because this is a new computer =)
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#110 Post by ShiraiJunichi » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:04 pm

mikey wrote:It's like complaining that a sex site is more popular than your "tips for a stable relationship" website.
Does anyone else think that it would be the coolest if the opposite were true? If websites for improving relationships were more valued than sex oriented websites? If people could get their emotional "fix" from playing ren'ai games, instead of watching prOn? I think that would be so awesome! I can just imagine cubicle workers everywhere secretly playing ren'ai games at work! This community would grow so large... But, I kind of like how this community is relatively small- it gives it a distinct, intimate feeling


(Mikey can take this as a really big sigh ^_^)

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#111 Post by JackalAndromeda » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:14 am

So does this basically mean that if I were to make a game with H content that it would not be well received by the US ren-ai community?

Pleasing the community isn't my main objective, but I do want to keep it in mind since you all are the people most likely to play anything I make.

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#112 Post by papillon » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:31 am

Well, as noted with the popularity bits, you will get a *lot* of other people playing it if you did make something H... but a lot of them won't give you any feedback (other than complaints about your art sucking or how they want more of thing X). You might want to find a slightly naughtier web board to list such a game on in the hopes that they'll actually comment about your story and things.

Reading the painful, horrible sex scenes in FoH does make me want to eventually get around to doing something H and letting my other half write the smutty bits... but it's not high up on my list of things to do.

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#113 Post by mikey » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:39 am

JackalAndromeda wrote:So does this basically mean that if I were to make a game with H content that it would not be well received by the US ren-ai community?
Not at all, IMO. I think it's the WAY your work will present itself that will most probably determine it. Having sex scenes, even explicit, in a love game isn't at all out of place, it's normal. But it's the whole build-up, the reasons and the feelings behind it that will make it really a part of the story.

Even commercial b-games struggle in presenting this really well. On the rarest of occasions you find a sex scene that seems more or less natural, but every other time it's just the "uncensored sex scenes" bullet-point at the back of the box.

Still, I have no problem with all-out sex games, or with "light genres" where love and relationships are open, but that isn't really about love. When the producers realize this and aren't playing both sides, I don't feel cheated. But I usually do get disgusted when the protagonist starts to fall in love with the girl he raped the most. In short, the game should have an audience in mind.

This said, I would say let a game take its course. If appropriate, have sex scenes. If not, I wouldn't force it, because this will show very quickly.
musical74 wrote:One thing I has noticed is that those that come here searching for hentai only tend to disappear very quickly
Well, intelligent and non-conflict talk does seem to have a repelling effect on those who talk nonsense or just argue. OTOH I would say that this board has lots of topics where directly or indirectly about sex (and love). Maybe even more than your average h-board, since most of the topics there are "played it - cool"- style.

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#114 Post by Taavimon » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:56 pm

H content doesn't bother if it's not the "you raped me, I love you" sort of thing. I've even considered making a separate "adult version" of my project Rainbow Connection (which, despite its name, is not a shoujo/shounen-ai game) which would have sex scenes in some of the endings.

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#115 Post by papillon » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:00 pm

(My least favorite plot development in a b-game... "I feel so guilty about raping her... I must now have sex with her AGAIN to comfort her!" about ten minutes after said rape...)

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#116 Post by mikey » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:10 pm

papillon wrote:(My least favorite plot development in a b-game... "I feel so guilty about raping her... I must now have sex with her AGAIN to comfort her!" about ten minutes after said rape...)
*remembers* Hmmm, Critical Point sort of echoes in my head here, the shower scene, maybe? It's been a while though...
Taavimon wrote:(I've even considered making a separate "adult version" of my project Rainbow Connection
Maybe something like that would be doable even without having 2 versions - perhaps the player could choose a non-h version at the start and the game would then lock the content. Like Ronin. Then again, not many people will lock the h-scenes once they have a h-version. :roll: Plus, I'd have no idea how to do this program-wise.

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#117 Post by papillon » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:00 pm

Hmmm, Critical Point sort of echoes in my head here, the shower scene, maybe? It's been a while though...
Yup. Been a while for me too (I sold my copy) but that's how I remember it happening. Not the most lovable PC.

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#118 Post by PyTom » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:24 pm

Mizuiro also had optional h-scenes, at least in the translated version I played. There was a menu at the start that asked you which version you wanted to play,
mikey wrote: Plus, I'd have no idea how to do this program-wise.
Well, in Ren'Py it's fairly easy to do:

Code: Select all

menu:
    "I'm an adult or adultress.":
        $ adult = True
    "Hide the H!":
        $ adult = False

...

if adult:

    # Bump, grind, etc.

else:

    # Discuss philosophy.

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#119 Post by bookie » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:05 pm

JackalAndromeda wrote:So does this basically mean that if I were to make a game with H content that it would not be well received by the US ren-ai community?
Maybe it wouldn't get much of a following in this forum (although it's been stated that a little explicit action isn't enough to make people condemn a work) but I frequent (or... used to since many of them are gone. T_T) places where H stuff is welcome and sought after, and not in that nasty horny way either.

I must admit that I don't shy away from mindless porn at all. I feel as long as I can still appreciate the good stuff, like in depth characters and plot, good gameplay, and all that, I can splurge once and a while with some smut.

But I can't make it, I'm too immature. Every time I think of doing something H it feels absurd and I keep it PG-13.

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#120 Post by ShiraiJunichi » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:32 pm

I didn't mean to imply that I think adult games would not be welcomed here. If done wisely, I'll bet a lot of the members would like to see it. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, Nio is currently working on a free H game.

I was just sort of dreaming out loud, about what it would be like if the majority of people preferred ren'ai instead of hentai, and wondered if anyone felt the same way. I guess I'm alone... ;_;

Anyway, I think it would be better to have a non-H version that's completely separate from the H version. Personally, I wouldn't download it if it contained H, even if the H material could unequivocably be avoided. But more importantly, it would make it illegal for minors to download and play the game. I don't know how many that would actually stop... but it's a situation that I think is best avoided any way possible.
I am a little concerned about how adult games may be presented at the archives... Right now, I feel fairly ok with giving the URL to the archives to younger family and friends; However, if adult games become randomly mixed in with the others, that will be a thing of the past- My uncle would kill me if his son downloaded a sexually explicit game from a URL that I gave him... If I could rely on internet filters to block it, then I wouldn't have to worry, but since the adult content is all encoded into a single download, and the webpage hosting the download won't have any objectionable content, I imagine any internet filter would be powerless to detect it as adult material, and block it.
Of course, that could just be my problem, and I don't expect that the world should change just to accomodate me, but I wonder if anyone else shares my concerns...

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