But the main talk was about the independent VN game developing scene. Let's leave everything aside and concentrate on our main problem, as PyTom described at the beggining of this thread. Lets just focus on our stuff and leave the japanese mainstream productions.
I agree with this completely. I've seen many similiar examples on how the communities grown, lived and died because of similiar problems, the heck I was within one of those. It's funny how some really old games still live, even if there's a time pass of almost 9-10 years (Starcraft, Jazz Jackrabbit 2). But those games still live, even if the companies don't support them anymore. Why? Because these games are damn good, they have something that attracts people and they have strong communities and people still like (love would be a better word here) those games, even after so many years, and as far the image of these games will stay in at least few hearts of their fans, those games will still remain remembered. It's an important thing. RenPy is a very special example - it's not a game, but a developing tool, thus it requires the existence of community, which will use it and share their thoughts about it. Without the community, this program would be already dead and forgotten in the deeps of internet jungle. Of course, as a creator PyTom does his best to support it, but without a stable, or better - growing community we will all end up at nothing.PyTom wrote: My sense is that many of the recent releases have been from people who have just learned Ren'Py, gotten it working, and released something relatively quickly. And I think it's important that we not scare away new people, as if we do that, the community eventually dies. But at the same time, we need to go from these demo projects to more serious works. To make the best damn game they can make, and then to make the one after that even better.
It is a problem, and it's a fact. I've been here only a while, but my eyes can already see this. The lack of amibtion/lazyness are the most common problems around the indie game developing communities and because of this, almost 80% of games end up only as dreamy projects (the hell, what am I talking about - as scrapped projects I mean - search TIGSource for examples). Eventually next 10% end up as unfinieshed games or demos. Most project are dropped because of lack of attention from other people, lack of people who would be willing to work on them or just some common problems - we can't forget about we have our own normal lives going out, with all the rest of difficulties. Most people who are willing to work are young and study. This means they won't be able to work on those projects on normal basis like in the mainstream companies. And don't forget mostly it's just a hobby. Only few manage to take this higher and succed with this. But it isn't imposible to create a good game by our standards.PyTom wrote: At the same time, there is something untoward about complaining about the free ice cream. I mean, mikey made 1 MegaKiss in his spare time, and we can't really say "why didn't you spend a lot of time/money to make it better". The real problem isn't any specific game, it's the lack of ambition in the forums as a whole.
Does anyone else see this as a problem, and if so how do we fix it.
Ps. I think the commercial side has been the most interesting to me over the past couple of months, as we've seen several complete, if perhaps short, games released there.
See for ourself:
I love this game. It's a perfect example, how games can (and shoulde be, IMHO) created. You might won't believe it, but Aquaria was created only by a team of two people. They created it within two years of development, which is quite standard time, as we look onto other, mainstream companies and their production times. The final result is identical, but this games has something special, that most mainstream titles lack of - a heart. Because Derek and Alec had put all their efforts, all their personal thoughts and all the fellings, this game is special. If you're still doubtful, go give it a try. Theres a demo for download, and you'll see for yourself.
I don't know, if there's a perfect solution to solve our problems; propably it depends on the attitude of differen't people. Mabye we should really drop small projects and stop doing stuff into our drawers, as I said earlier and focus on something a little bit more challenging?
We can always give it a try.