Some pointers.. From a players point of view.

[Binki]

Okay here we go my reply...

My opinion was not of a "elitist attitude".

^_^ Sorry, I misread the post below you. Anyway, I do think that mistake is a bit of a strong word. I'll go change it. I don't want to make an enemy ^_^

[darkknight]

Heck making enemys is the only thing I seem to be good at on (this) forum...I think i am just going to leave....

[papillon]

Yeah, Sweet Dreams has some vicious pixel-hunting in places. I was so impressed with myself for making the mouse change when you passed over items that I didn't bother to make it big enough for some people to SEE it! I entered it in the text adventure competition and won the prize for most controversial entry, as some people were *really* annoyed with me about that. (Edit: Not annoyed about the pixel hunt. Annoyed at my audacity for entering a non-text-based game. "This is not interactive fiction! 1/10!")

One Week is another outgrowth of my Princess Maker fetish. It's basically choose-your-own-adventure for a week in the life of a highschool girl with both Prom and the SAT on Saturday. So you have to juggle your choices in order to study, find a date, and get a dress by the deadline. Very short simple game, not worth the effort of tracking down, really. It was done because someone was running a CYOA competition and I wanted to show how you could do something unexpected with the CYOA setup.

... and then there was the time I entered a semi-hentai CYOA into the main text adventure competition, *also* to rile people up... I sort of have that tendency. If someone were running a competition for sweet pure romances, I'd probably write something about being ravished by zombie pirates.

[Binki]

Yeah, Sweet Dreams has some vicious pixel-hunting in places. I was so impressed with myself for making the mouse change when you passed over items that I didn't bother to make it big enough for some people to SEE it! I entered it in the text adventure competition and won the prize for most controversial entry, as some people were *really* annoyed with me about that.

One Week is another outgrowth of my Princess Maker fetish. It's basically choose-your-own-adventure for a week in the life of a highschool girl with both Prom and the SAT on Saturday. So you have to juggle your choices in order to study, find a date, and get a dress by the deadline. Very short simple game, not worth the effort of tracking down, really. It was done because someone was running a CYOA competition and I wanted to show how you could do something unexpected with the CYOA setup.

... and then there was the time I entered a semi-hentai CYOA into the main text adventure competition, *also* to rile people up... I sort of have that tendency. If someone were running a competition for sweet pure romances, I'd probably write something about being ravished by zombie pirates.

Where can I download 1 week? ^_^;; I love your games ( I'm po' and can only play the demos T_T I can't wait for summer school girls ) I'm stuck in sweet dreams as well. Stupid bridge..

[PyTom]

Yeah, Sweet Dreams has some vicious pixel-hunting in places. I was so impressed with myself for making the mouse change when you passed over items that I didn't bother to make it big enough for some people to SEE it! I entered it in the text adventure competition and won the prize for most controversial entry, as some people were *really* annoyed with me about that.

Actually, IIRC, one of the problems was that some items were stacked on top of one another. So the pointer would change when it went over the desk, but stay the same when it went over (say) a book on the desk, making it hard to realize that the book was a different item from the desk.

That being said, the game was actually quite fun.

Are any of the other games you mentioned on the IF-archive?

[papillon]

http://wurb.com/if/person/818

That's me.

But don't hold any dumb mistakes of the past against me!

[Binki]

http://wurb.com/if/person/818

That's me.

But don't hold any dumb mistakes of the past against me!

Thanks ^_^ I'll tell you what I think!

[Binki]

Whee! That's a really fun game! ^_^ I think you should re-make it : D

[Cazel]

papillon, you made One Week? I remember playing that once, during one of my searches for free renai games. I don't remember much about it anymore, except that I never managed to juggle everything, and seemed to do badly on the test no matter what I did.

[Taleweaver]

I never finished Sweet Dreams. Unforunately, it crashed Windows every time I was a bit into the sequence after you pass the trapdoor and find the secret experiments. Ah well... probably just me -_-

[kara24601]

I love papillon's games too.
That bridge part of sweet dreams was annoying and I never could get the prom queen ending if it really is "gettable"...
But still , great games overall.
It's always nice to see a female pov in a game / get to play as a female.

[PixelWrangler]

At the risk of reviving a "dead" thread, I really would like to respond to this one. Sorry in advance if I'm forumancing...

I've played pretty much every freeware Ren'ai game you guys put out and I've been noticing some things I don't really like. Maybe this will help, or maybe it'll piss you off.

The fact that you specified that they were things that you personally don't like helps a lot... better than "ur gamez sux cuz..."

1. The art. Look... I know it is hard to find a good artist, and most of you do a very good job with what you have and yet there are some things about WHAT you're drawing that detract from the games you create.
( From the POV of a female manga artist )

a. Clothing. I have to admit some of the most bland clothing you will ever see on a woman you will find in american made Ren'ai games ( Not the professional ones... Those aren't too hot either ).

b. Hair. Same problem, its like the same thing over and over again.. It gets very tiring.

Ok so those are the basic blunders I see in the art in you guy'ses work.

Finding someone who has writing, programming, character design, and illustration skills is extremely difficult, even given an actual budget. Therefore, given a freeware solo project, it is likely that at least one of these areas will suffer.

Finding a truly top-notch artist is tough, too, since that artist is most likely either (a) still in school, and therefore busy, (b) working on their own project and therefore unavailable, or (c) professionally employed and really unavailable.

And I wouldn't call them "blunders"... "shortcomings" might be a little more indicative of the sentiment you're trying to convey. "Blunders" encroaches a bit on the "ur art sux" territory.

2. Personalitys and plots. I am also a writer so I kinda know what I'm dealing with ^_^;;

Part 1 ( XD ) personalitys :

I keep on finding the same characters in each freakin' game!!! Let me list off some mary-sues of the Ren'ai world:

The shy bookish one.
The older expirienced one.
The ditzy one etc, etc.

Now don't get me wrong, I actually like the slate characters. They bring a sense of firmiliarity to a game, but try and mix em' up once in a while.

A few things about the character types. First, there are certain "stock" anime/manga stereotypes that pervade the two media. Even in professional ren'ai games, these types are adhered to. This is most likely because, from a game design perspective, the developer wants to give the player the ability to draw on their prior knowledge to try and finish the game as successfully as possible. For example, if you are talking to the "super-cute hyper-enthusiastic" template, chance are, you'll know which of the three choices below would be the best one:

- "Let's go to a poetry reading"
- "Wanna shoot some hoops?"
- "Let's go to the pet store and look at kittens" <---- (Ooh! That one!)

Western/American media does this as well... the idiot, the ditz, the snobby rich girl, the tomboy, the goth chick, etc. Basically, characters in most media, regardless of country or culture, start with basic character types, then expand on them. In ren'ai games, going beyond the initial impression is where the real "meat" of the game is. In Western/American ren'ai games, given the average length of the games, this can be hard to do.

Finally, pretty much all of the Western ren'ai game makers have been inspired to make these games because they truly enjoy playing them. As such, many of these games will contain a lot of the elements that the developer has come to know and love.

Part 2 Plots:

Why oh why do these games always have to be about people in and around collage age?! I want diversity!! Try different pairring types too! How bout' some shoujo-ai or shonen-ai? Better yet, mix it all together, now that'd be a great game... Get a guy or a gal!

Keep in mind that the sheer amount of work that goes into completing a ren'ai game usually ends up causing it to be fairly short. And, given the length of these games, deep, twisting plots with rich, detailed characters are very hard to pull off. Kind of like trying to condense "Dune" into a short story.

Actually, the fact that the games are set in college is unique to the Western ren'ai game scene... in Japan, they're all (for the most part) in high school (or even younger!!!). College-age characters might almost be termed "fog'ai"s. (Hm... "fo-g'ai"... a new ren'ai genre! )

Also, the Western ren'ai scene isn't nearly as well-established as the Japanese scene... give it a little while and, as more and more games come out, you will probably see a wide variety of concepts emerge (there are already quite a few out there).

By the way... your mis-spelling of "college" gave me an interesting idea... how about a ren'ai game where all the art is done in collage style? Now THAT would be interesting... hmmm...

So yeah. Keep it up, cause you guys rock! I hope I can join you once I figure out that new fangled ren'ai software!

Go for it! And, once you do, you'll have a perfect chance to create exactly the kind of game you want to see... the reason that most, if not all, of the ren'ai developers get started in the first place.

Matte Ne!



c.

Ouch... I think you may have been going for "Ganbatte ne" ("do your best, okay?"). "Matte ne" means, roughly ("Wait, okay?")

Thanks for the honesty, Binki. I'm sure you had visions of firestorms dancing in your head, but this is a good community. Valid points will be recognized, invalid ones argued, but usually in a constructive way. And feedback, especially constuctive feedback, is always good.

I actually haven't gotten the chance to play a lot of the games out there (tried TOL1 a while back), but I will probably jump in soon with the NaNoRenO entries.

Good luck with your dreams of ren'ai development glory... Ganbatte yo!

P.W.

[bookie]

Or he could have been going for matta ne, which is kind of like see you later, right?

[PixelWrangler]

Or he could have been going for matta ne, which is kind of like see you later, right?

Ahhh... good catch. Quite possible indeed. And yes, kind of like "See ya!" or "Later!"

P.W.