Monthly Game Jam Interest Check

[Desichan]

So, when thinking about NaNoRenO, I had this thought...

If people miss NaNoRenO, a lot of people may just feel like they can't try doing a project like that till next year, when it comes back, and it made me think, what if there was a monthly game jam, that people could just join in on, whatever month they feel upto it?

It gave me an idea, that maybe I could try making a monthly jam, one that just goes on every month, and so people who wanna do a project like a NaNoRenO one, would have a place where they could do it any month, really. Some people may want to make a lot of short games, some may want to try one, but they don't want to wait for March to come back again.

The idea just kind of sounds well, nice to me. So I'm wondering, does anyone think they'd be at all interested in this kind of thing?
I don't intend to start something like this up immediately, but I do wanna know what people think about trying to start it up in general.

[ISAWHIM]

MoJoRen

Monthly
Jam (Just A Mini-novel)
Of
RenPy

Get your MoJo on!

I think bi-monthly would be better. Two months for setup (from announcement), to the final submission. Still called the "monthly"...

Topic or content driven... Without major specifics.
A: Love story, about something, not someone.
B: Traumatic event, with a struggle to pull through it.
C: Mystical event, with life-changing impact.
D: Comical alien encounter/s.
E: Sunrise to sunset... The longest day...
F: Aquatic adventure.
etc...

[Ghost of Crux]

IMHO having it every month of the year would make it quickly lose its draw. The reason why things like NaNo anything work is because it's "special"-- it's that "specialness" that incentivizes people into finishing it within that month.

That being said, you can do multiple other NaNos, I think. NaNoWriMo was originally November only, but now there's Camp NaNoWriMo for those who want the extra challenge/can't make it during November. They're set in April and July. Note that there's only two-- this way, people can build up anticipation and thus be motivated to finish while also not having to wait an entire year. Otherwise, they might as well do a prettier version of posting a project in WIP: Short Non-Commercial subforum instead.

[PyTom]

Yeah, I think that's right. We also don't want a monthly game jam to serve as a distraction that keeps people from working on bigger projects.

[Desichan]

Wow that's a lot of good feedback, thank you everyone!

MoJoRen

Monthly
Jam (Just A Mini-novel)
Of
RenPy

Get your MoJo on!

I think bi-monthly would be better. Two months for setup (from announcement), to the final submission. Still called the "monthly"...

Topic or content driven... Without major specifics.
A: Love story, about something, not someone.
B: Traumatic event, with a struggle to pull through it.
C: Mystical event, with life-changing impact.
D: Comical alien encounter/s.
E: Sunrise to sunset... The longest day...
F: Aquatic adventure.
etc...

I think this is all some good ideas for if going through with it, especially the bimonthly point, seeing as the rather large issues that have been pointed out with the monthly idea. Also having topics, or or things like that, really could assist in making it possibly just be a small project, that if people are interested in, they may join.
Thanks for your suggestions!

IMHO having it every month of the year would make it quickly lose its draw. The reason why things like NaNo anything work is because it's "special"-- it's that "specialness" that incentivizes people into finishing it within that month.

That being said, you can do multiple other NaNos, I think. NaNoWriMo was originally November only, but now there's Camp NaNoWriMo for those who want the extra challenge/can't make it during November. They're set in April and July. Note that there's only two-- this way, people can build up anticipation and thus be motivated to finish while also not having to wait an entire year. Otherwise, they might as well do a prettier version of posting a project in WIP: Short Non-Commercial subforum instead.

Those are some very good points, I must say, and they definitely make sense. I was contemplating this kind of stuff, but yeah, you have some really good points.
Do you think making it bimonthly, with a theme, like how ISAWHIM suggested, could fix any of the issues with such an idea?
Thank you for the input!

Yeah, I think that's right. We also don't want a monthly game jam to serve as a distraction that keeps people from working on bigger projects.

That makes a lot of sense yeah. Thank you very much for your input into this!

[Mammon]

I think that if it's 'make anything in any genre of any length' that's every month, the jam will be more a nice tag for the projects than the other way around. If your product happens to be released that month, make it a MojoRen. If it doesn't fit, just release it next month under that tag.
Not saying it's a bad thing, having a 'we need to do the last touches in the next three days or we'll have to wait another month' might be useful for some especially if they've got last-minute mentality, and more publicity for VNs is also good. However, the jam itself will probably be either not too popular or a glorified list of the VNs published that month.

Part of the NaNoRenO charm is that it only happens once a year. Lots of people who're working on projects that take a year or so to make will take a month-long break to make a smaller and simpler project to rekindle the enthusiasm in their reputation and to get a quick motivation-up. For just that month, people will be more inclined to form groups and join together. After that month, people can binge on VNs in one comprehensible list.

Considering how there already are more jams such as the two-month long yuri-jam and probably a bunch more if I'd look further, I don't think this idea will spark a lot of enthusiam. Vacation is nice because it's only once a year.

[ISAWHIM]

The reasoning for using a "Theme", is so people can't "do this a year in advance", or "submit works that are 2+ years old".

Also, Once you hear about it, that is when you "start", same as everyone-else. You have two months to submit... At the beginning of a new contest, the old ones are submitted.

NaNoReN, I would not have attempted to participate in, because I saw others had been doing work for months ahead, while I would "just be starting". For me to have any fair submission, I would have to wait a whole year, and submit in the next NaNoReN contest. By the time you year about it, it's almost too late.

Now, If this was Bi-Monthly, and mention of "NaNoReN" was mentioned with every two-month contest... that gives both a boost. There would be no comparison between the two. They are complimentary contests. That would be like saying a Farm-Tractor race and a Nas-Car race were competing, because they both have an oval track, and the vehicles have tires. (Sure they may have the same fans, but one actually has accidents... and it isn't Nas-Car! Tractor races are unregulated! Wooo Hooo! 12 MPH, unlimited, with Nitro, and they race with right-hand turns, not left-hand turns... for copyright reasons.)

I have the same issue with shows like "America's Got Talent", where a total amature goes-up against someone who does the "talent", professionally, as a job, but the other person is just someone who has an actual talent, not a life-trained-skill. (Talking about a few comedians, magicians, circus-performers and singers... pushing "undiscovered talent" over with "mediocre talent" that isn't making them money on the many stages they worked/performed on, for years... but they still want that 2-min of fame.)

[indoneko]

What's the purpose of a game jam (and NanoReno), actually? (especially for those semi/professional developer, who would surely enjoy a real vacation instead of another month of work)

It's kinda silly to gun for "NanoReno" or "MojoRen" tag when releasing a game (to the point of pushing the release date back to match those events). And making games for the sole purpose of joining a game jam is even unthinkable for me.

But I kinda see what Isawhim is thinking about the special game jam, especially if the purpose is to train the newbies in several aspects of VN making. I imagine the short game jam will be divided into two stage : The Writing jam and The Art/music jam, where ALL of the relevant participants are required to give peer review of other participant's work in each stage of the jam. And of course, since this jam is intended as a "learning class", all assets are expected to be original/self-made...

[Mammon]

But I kinda see what Isawhim is thinking about the special game jam, especially if the purpose is to train the newbies in several aspects of VN making. I imagine the short game jam will be divided into two stage : The Writing jam and The Art/music jam, where ALL of the relevant participants are required to give peer review of other participant's work in each stage of the jam. And of course, since this jam is intended as a "learning class", all assets are expected to be original/self-made...

Hm, that sounds maybe interesting? (And maybe a total bust by lack of interest.) Something that doesn't rely on team management or solodev'ing the entire project? A take a dime, leave a dime approach. Everyone makes CC resources, throw them into <somewhere> and let someone else handle it? I don't know what you have in mind, but I'm thinking:

FraDeNo jam. (Fragmented development novel jam)
Week 0: People post plot ideas, character sprite ideas and such in a thread.
Week 1+2: Make a sprite. CC sprites are being made and thrown into a place where others can access them. Can be based upon the plots posted, general requests or just whatever you want to make. No responsibilities to make a whole cast or anything. Just, draw something you want to draw, not even obligated to show it if the result isn't to your liking.
Week 3+4: Write a plot. Writers will be writing stories based upon ideas or inspired by the made available sprites.
Week 5+6: Program it in, and make CGs. Programmers will take a look at the scripts and if they see one they like, they'll take it and start coding, taking the sprites as well. Meanwhile, artists who were inspired by the sprites or scripts might make fanart CGs for them.

Pros:
-No need for recruitment or waiting for someone else to finish up. If someone didn't make it, they simply don't end up in the list for the next step to continue with. There'll be no one waiting impatiently for a writer or artist to finish up because those people can pick another project.
-Self-management. You don't need to worry about others or communication. You take what is given and give what you can and want to make. No revisions, arguments or people peskering you. If you fail, see point 1.
-Could be completely anonymous, so more appealing to those who don't dare to join a team or aren't sure they want/can join until the very last minute. They can just make sprites or write a script and see if someone takes it.
-Sprites could be split into outlines and coloring, if you don't like either then maybe someone else does.

Cons:
-A lot of people will do something that will go to waste. Every step will leave several assets untouched and several hearts broken.
-This jam will require a lot of people to join the very first year, or it will never take off due to lack of results.
-As you can see above, I didn't list backgrounds and GUI because those will probably be more demand than supply and won't be varied enough. So those will have to be regular CC.
-If anonymous, this will need at least one dedicated (and fast responding) moderator to keep track of who did what to eventually give credit on who worked on what project, and to make sure that not everyone ends up working on the same plot or with the same sprites. They'll probably also will be the ones receiving all the assets and posting it on Dropbox probably?


Do I think it's a good idea? No, not really. But I do think that it can be a real good jam for people who simply cannot do the other two basics of VN (writing/art/coding) and who are just too shy or unsure of their qualities to step out of the shadows before they have a VN to prove their worth.

[fullmontis]

I would really like to have a VN jam more often. I could not partecipate in this year's NaNoRenO because of another project and that kinda sucked, since now I have to wait until next year.

I personally think that two month development cycles are a little too long, though, especially if you want still to consider it a jam. I think 30 days are the perfect timespan for VN development because it is enough to do work but not large enough that one could lose focus, and to give a little of pressure to finish up.

Maybe do one month jam and one month cooldown? That would leave some space for collecting thoughts and distribution after the end of the project, but not far apart enough to lose momentum. And there wouldn't be too much pressure if one could not partecipate in one jam because the next one is just a couple of months down the road, instead of a whole year.

The reasoning for using a "Theme", is so people can't "do this a year in advance", or "submit works that are 2+ years old".

I think that since it is an open jam without any prize besides the game you developed, there isn't much worry about someone "cheating". In the end, it is more a competition with oneself.

And I think that a theme would be limiting. Personally I don't like themes that much, I do things like Ludum Dare because I know that even if I don't like the theme, I only have to work on it for one weekend. Working a whole month on a theme I didn't like would be frustrating, at least for me.

[Ghost of Crux]

Just a quick reply because it's 3 AM and the replies are numerous, but idk about setting a theme on a month long jam either. It seems like NaNoRenO was initially for dating sims (RenAi?) and these days quite a number of them are distinctly not dating sims. Admittedly, a number of them still are, but yeah.

As for my thoughts on FraDeNo--
This could theoretically work to teach people on like, being part of a group (ie sharing asset-creation) without actually really doing it, but at the same time, I feel like there might be a loss of that shared goal, if you know what I mean? Like, without there actually being a. Good driving motivation to finish the game (everyone worked hard to make exclusive assets for the game, it would be a shame to not finish it and release it), it might have a very low "success" rate. Not to mention that it might make artists (or maybe also programmers) feel a bit "outside" of the dev-group at some point, as they just linger about waiting for a writer to finish something without them even knowing whether someone's using their assets or not. It can kill interest really fast.

I'm with the group going with 'camp' NaNoRenO-- I think it's a good way to teach people vn dev without being too on-the-nose about it. It lets people experiment, too. I'd just say to stick with NaNoWriMo's idea in this case-- 2 Camp NaNoRenOs, 1 'official' one. Space them as evenly as possible across the year. I also would sort-of make the case for making it less 'special' than the others-- there's something more comforting about creating experimental stuffs during the 'lesser' NaNos and saving the Big Ideas for the 'official' NaNo. As NaNoRenO gets 'bigger' and more people create better stuffs for them, it can be a bit daunting for some to just jump right in. A less popular version might be a more comfortable space for some first-timers.

[Mammon]

As for my thoughts on FraDeNo--
This could theoretically work to teach people on like, being part of a group (ie sharing asset-creation) without actually really doing it, but at the same time, I feel like there might be a loss of that shared goal, if you know what I mean? Like, without there actually being a good driving motivation to finish the game (everyone worked hard to make exclusive assets for the game, it would be a shame to not finish it and release it), it might have a very low "success" rate. Not to mention that it might make artists (or maybe also programmers) feel a bit "outside" of the dev-group at some point, as they just linger about waiting for a writer to finish something without them even knowing whether someone's using their assets or not. It can kill interest really fast.

Pretty much also my reservations about my own plan. In the event that anyone didn't understand teh first two points I listed in the Cons, this sums it up pretty nicely. I expect it to pretty much die too due to lack of results, unless it were to attract many people right away at the first time which I highly doubt without some amazing marketing.

[Godline]

Honestly there are a bunch of game jams listed on itch.io every month. Just pick one of them or create your own non-renpy-specific one on there.

Nanoreno is a time honored tradition that shouldn't be messed with imo.

For those that want challenge Ludum Dare 38 starts on the 21st of April. I'd love to see more renpy users enter into that.