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NaSetsu
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#1 Post by NaSetsu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:35 am

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Last edited by NaSetsu on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I need Help

#2 Post by MaiMai » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:13 pm

The thing is, there are only so many hours in a day and not all of them can be spent on this forum. A lot of us are adults who have school or jobs or are involved with their own game projects.

What you want is a totally involved art coach and the reality of it is, there probably isn't any person here who has the time for it, especially if there's no real compensation for the time being spent. There's a reason why teaching art is an occupation.

People do give advice and sometimes well outlined guidance just to give a push, but we're not holding full drawing art courses where you get assignments designed to help you improve. The expectation here is that you either seek an outside source (aka a real life art class you or a parent/caregiver can pay for and attend to on your own time) or you invest in yourself and self-study by reading tutorials or books, watching YouTube videos (which I recommend, there's a lot of art help videos).

You want to learn how to draw humanoid/human characters? Go back to the basics. Learn how to draw actual people and understand how bodies work. Proko is a YouTuber who has made many videos covering the basics of beginning life drawing and most of his video lessons are free.

http://www.proko.com/library/

You might benefit from videos because you can always pause and rewind at your leisure.

Overall, if you're that fixated on learning how to draw, you either find an actual teacher offline or you go the self-teaching route, actually READ or WATCH your resources, PRACTICE over and over and over and ask for feedback on your work from there.
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Re: I need Help

#3 Post by Evy » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:17 pm

First off - destroying your old art won't help you. Keeping previous works is actually pretty essential when you need to make a comparison for progress. Second, I don't see what good pasting that PM in your post and namedropping the other user will do. If anything, it just sounds kind of dramatic imo.

No offense, but I don't think anyone will have the time to privately tutor you, especially for free, when they most likely have other projects to work on. It sounds like you're looking for a shortcut in learning art. I'm sorry, but shortcuts don't exist when it comes to learning skills. You have to put in time and effort on your own. Research. Experiment. Why are existing tutorials not good enough for you? There's a whole bunch of them out there, and for various things. No one can just hand you everything on a silver platter. It's just not that simple. You can't expect someone else to do all the work for you, you know?

I've been drawing ever since I could hold a pencil and started practicing more seriously at age 9. I'm 27 now and I've improved by leaps and bounds, but that doesn't mean I know everything - far from it! But the thing is, I still have a whole lifetime ahead of me to keep learning. I don't know how old you are, but trust me: You have time. You just need to discipline yourself a little more.

Also? If people are telling you these things, it's not because they don't have "kind hearts" or want to be mean; they're just being realistic. It can sting, but it's important to learn these things now so you can learn to avoid repeating the same mistakes in the future.

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Re: I need Help

#4 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:30 pm

NaSetsu wrote: LWR was the only person who stuck with me to the end where no one responded to me anymore and with that I learned a lot about coloring. I understand why this person may not want to deal with me for the fact they are a 33 year old veteran, but I meant not to get on their bad side.
I saw the other thread, NaSetsu, and I PM'ed with some of the other members about it. Yes, you disappointed me terribly, but I didn't feel the need to add anything to what the others had already said.

I will say this, however:
Tracing other people's artwork and trying to pass it off as your own is bad. Tracing other people's artwork and then trying to sell it is extremely bad. That's stealing from people trying to make a living, and, as you can imagine, leaves a very bad taste in the mouth of those of us who make our living this way. It doesn't just hurt the artist you stole from, it damages the trust of the clients all of us as artists rely on to make a living and creates an atmosphere where they are fearful that the work they are paying for is not original.

You keep waffling back and forth on whether or not you traced or or got 'permission from a friend'. I overlayed the images in Photoshop and they are definitely traced - there is line-for-line stroke matching. And the images you traced are from two different artists - one of which is in Japan. And BOTH are selling their own artwork commissions, so I find it highly unlikely they would just had line art over to someone else to also sell. And since they had already sold those exact pieces, the image rights definitely would no longer be transferrable.

All of this is to say that I don't think you've actually given any type of true mea culpa at this point. I just keep seeing excuses and deflections. The 'permission from a friend' line in your other thread just means you lied again after being caught in a lie. No one likes being lied to, and no one likes the person that lied making excuses after the fact.

That's all I'll say on the matter. Good luck in your future art endeavors, and please, keep yourself honest.

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Re: I need Help

#5 Post by NaSetsu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:52 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
NaSetsu wrote: LWR was the only person who stuck with me to the end where no one responded to me anymore and with that I learned a lot about coloring. I understand why this person may not want to deal with me for the fact they are a 33 year old veteran, but I meant not to get on their bad side.
I saw the other thread, NaSetsu, and I PM'ed with some of the other members about it. Yes, you disappointed me terribly, but I didn't feel the need to add anything to what the others had already said.

I will say this, however:
Tracing other people's artwork and trying to pass it off as your own is bad. Tracing other people's artwork and then trying to sell it is extremely bad. That's stealing from people trying to make a living, and, as you can imagine, leaves a very bad taste in the mouth of those of us who make our living this way. It doesn't just hurt the artist you stole from, it damages the trust of the clients all of us as artists rely on to make a living and creates an atmosphere where they are fearful that the work they are paying for is not original.

You keep waffling back and forth on whether or not you traced or or got 'permission from a friend'. I overlayed the images in Photoshop and they are definitely traced - there is line-for-line stroke matching. And the images you traced are from two different artists - one of which is in Japan. And BOTH are selling their own artwork commissions, so I find it highly unlikely they would just had line art over to someone else to also sell. And since they had already sold those exact pieces, the image rights definitely would no longer be transferrable.

All of this is to say that I don't think you've actually given any type of true mea culpa at this point. I just keep seeing excuses and deflections. The 'permission from a friend' line in your other thread just means you lied again after being caught in a lie. No one likes being lied to, and no one likes the person that lied making excuses after the fact.

That's all I'll say on the matter. Good luck in your future art endeavors, and please, keep yourself honest.

I expected for you to be disappointed and I pretty much knew you were going to say something as such. First I want to ask what does mea culpa mean? Second of all I'm not making any more excuses I give up on the friend did this and I did that, the point is very true that it's traced and what I did was a crime. I'm not lie-ing any more and I see I already left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, for now I give up on commissions. I give up on the trying to make money thing, I give up on trying to say I didn't trace. I give up on all of that, all I want is to draw to my own content. I didn't know any of the information you told me above about the Japanese people who sold that art and so on, there are no more excuses coming from me. All I need is a coach or someone who can help me and I hope to find that very soon, I thank you for your kind yet hurtful words. I will be honest with myself from now on, and I hope my future art does make it to a good point. And though I am in no position to ask of this because who I am and who I am seen as. I do want to know do you have any good pointers for my art, do you have any good tutorials? Do you have anything other than the sketch tutorial in your signature, as I said I am in no position to ask of this. But I still am doing this, I am making the effort to start over and though it was stated above no point of getting rid of my old art. The reason of doing that was to show change, it was to prove a point to myself that the old me was dead and gone. And that a new me was now fitting into those shoes to try again. I don't expect you to forgive me and that is fine, though I still would like for you to be my friend. And to help me get past this, and to help me head toward a better future.

That is all and thank you once again, your words still bring happiness to my heart and I thank you for still wanting a better future for me. Response is not needed but you may do it if you feel as though you want to say something about this.

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Re: I need Help

#6 Post by NaSetsu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:13 pm

Evy wrote:First off - destroying your old art won't help you. Keeping previous works is actually pretty essential when you need to make a comparison for progress. Second, I don't see what good pasting that PM in your post and namedropping the other user will do. If anything, it just sounds kind of dramatic imo.

No offense, but I don't think anyone will have the time to privately tutor you, especially for free, when they most likely have other projects to work on. It sounds like you're looking for a shortcut in learning art. I'm sorry, but shortcuts don't exist when it comes to learning skills. You have to put in time and effort on your own. Research. Experiment. Why are existing tutorials not good enough for you? There's a whole bunch of them out there, and for various things. No one can just hand you everything on a silver platter. It's just not that simple. You can't expect someone else to do all the work for you, you know?

I've been drawing ever since I could hold a pencil and started practicing more seriously at age 9. I'm 27 now and I've improved by leaps and bounds, but that doesn't mean I know everything - far from it! But the thing is, I still have a whole lifetime ahead of me to keep learning. I don't know how old you are, but trust me: You have time. You just need to discipline yourself a little more.

Also? If people are telling you these things, it's not because they don't have "kind hearts" or want to be mean; they're just being realistic. It can sting, but it's important to learn these things now so you can learn to avoid repeating the same mistakes in the future.

Okay well starting off with the first thing you mentioned, you can see down below I also said this to LWR that destroying my art was not for anyone to feel sympathy for me it was just to prove a point to myself that the old me was dead and gone. And that the new me was now taking the role of the old me.

Second thing you mentioned was you don't think anyone will have the time to tutor me for free and I do agree that that is very true. Not everyone is as free as me and a lot of people have lives not saying I don't. And for the shortcut thing that's not what I'm looking for, because I know there are no shortcuts to anything in life. I expected the teacher to spend some time out of their day to teach me little by little and as the days, weeks, months and the years went by I would get better. I don't usually tell people my age but I'm 13, please don't discriminate about my age that that's probably the reason my art isn't that good. But I've been drawing manga since I was about 5 maybe, yeah it wasn't that good but I did get better as the years went by. One year was the most dramatic and longest year of my life and I fell off of my drawing at that point. I came back the following year and not all but some of the good aspects of my art had disappeared and I just recognized this is getting long and may be seen as a excuse so let's cut the story short. I only would not rather go with the tutorials because it's hard to find tutorials that cover everything and I get confused rather easily. I will take what you said into action and still try the tutorials, I know everyone can't do the job for me so I will keep this here just in case.

Third thing you said is greatly appreciated and you are more right then my parents could have been. Maybe I have been rushing a little to much, trying and trying year after year to get my art better. But your 27 and you have been drawing since 9(Correct me if I'm wrong) that gives you 18 years to see what's best for you. And through that time period you can discover your own art style, me myself I think I still need to give myself a couple more years. I have only had about 7 years to experiment with my art style and I probably rushed things to fast. I have a couple more years before I get a job and then invest in my mother business and so on, I currently have three free years. I have 3 years until everything in my life get's a little hectic and rather then making excuses I need to find the solution.

Oh, and the fourth thing you said looking at how you put it you are right and how I put it I see can come off as being offensive so I will correct that. Thank you also for your kind yet hurtful words I will strive to move forward!

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Re: I need Help

#7 Post by NaSetsu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:18 pm

MaiMai wrote:The thing is, there are only so many hours in a day and not all of them can be spent on this forum. A lot of us are adults who have school or jobs or are involved with their own game projects.

What you want is a totally involved art coach and the reality of it is, there probably isn't any person here who has the time for it, especially if there's no real compensation for the time being spent. There's a reason why teaching art is an occupation.

People do give advice and sometimes well outlined guidance just to give a push, but we're not holding full drawing art courses where you get assignments designed to help you improve. The expectation here is that you either seek an outside source (aka a real life art class you or a parent/caregiver can pay for and attend to on your own time) or you invest in yourself and self-study by reading tutorials or books, watching YouTube videos (which I recommend, there's a lot of art help videos).

You want to learn how to draw humanoid/human characters? Go back to the basics. Learn how to draw actual people and understand how bodies work. Proko is a YouTuber who has made many videos covering the basics of beginning life drawing and most of his video lessons are free.

http://www.proko.com/library/

You might benefit from videos because you can always pause and rewind at your leisure.

Overall, if you're that fixated on learning how to draw, you either find an actual teacher offline or you go the self-teaching route, actually READ or WATCH your resources, PRACTICE over and over and over and ask for feedback on your work from there.

Thank you MaiMai for this, everyone has said there piece and I now understand a lot though I am hurt by my own actions. No one told me to do this but myself, as I say I'm trying not to have any more excuses come from me. I will try the dude out in the link and try practicing from there, and there is a big thanks coming from me. I don't even deserve the help that I am being given, but yet everyone is still being kind to do so. I hope that even though I do have a bad streak everyone will find it in their hearts to forgive me and accept me as who I am.

Thank you in advance and a response is not needed unless you feel as though you need to.

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Re: Need Art Coach

#8 Post by trooper6 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Hey! Here are my two cents on this post.
What you are asking for is a huge time commitment. People get paid to do what you are asking, and you want someone to invest a huge amount of time for no compensation. Maybe someone will be willing, but it seems like way too big of an ask to me.

My recommendations would be:
1) Take a drawing class. You are 13, which means you are in school. Many middle schools/high schools have drawing classes. I took drawing classes in middle school and that was great for me. But maybe your school doesn't have art classes, then you can...

2) Follow the drawing lessons from online tutorials. You can look at the free video library at control paint for example: https://www.ctrlpaint.com/library/
Pick up one or two of the classic How to Draw books and work through them.

3) Or you can do what I did, because I'm way older than you...I bought a few classic "How to Draw Books." The two classic authors I can think of are Andrew Loomis and Burne Hogarth (though I also had my trusty copy of "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way"). A number of Andrew Loomis's books are available free from the internet archive: https://archive.org/search.php?query=cr ... +Andrew%22

4) Focus on trying to draw real people and getting real proportions and figure drawing before you go anime. I would draw people on television or people in photographs (not tracing!), or people on the bus. Just practicing with real people and real clothes with read bodies.

Get a sketch book and practice everyday.

Also, don't even think about commissioning right now. That is years away.
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Re: Need Art Coach

#9 Post by NaSetsu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:04 pm

trooper6 wrote:Hey! Here are my two cents on this post.
What you are asking for is a huge time commitment. People get paid to do what you are asking, and you want someone to invest a huge amount of time for no compensation. Maybe someone will be willing, but it seems like way too big of an ask to me.

My recommendations would be:
1) Take a drawing class. You are 13, which means you are in school. Many middle schools/high schools have drawing classes. I took drawing classes in middle school and that was great for me. But maybe your school doesn't have art classes, then you can...

2) Follow the drawing lessons from online tutorials. You can look at the free video library at control paint for example: https://www.ctrlpaint.com/library/
Pick up one or two of the classic How to Draw books and work through them.

3) Or you can do what I did, because I'm way older than you...I bought a few classic "How to Draw Books." The two classic authors I can think of are Andrew Loomis and Burne Hogarth (though I also had my trusty copy of "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way"). A number of Andrew Loomis's books are available free from the internet archive: https://archive.org/search.php?query=cr ... +Andrew%22

4) Focus on trying to draw real people and getting real proportions and figure drawing before you go anime. I would draw people on television or people in photographs (not tracing!), or people on the bus. Just practicing with real people and real clothes with read bodies.

Get a sketch book and practice everyday.

Also, don't even think about commissioning right now. That is years away.
Thank you as well for your kind words of advice, I see a lot of people are motioning me towards the draw a real human before you draw anime thing. And seeing that I will follow everyone, I will keep in mind the two authors or just come back to this post if I forget and when I get to a bookstore or library I'll be sure to see what I can find. I actually not to long ago was actually looking at a tutorial and about the actual human thing they also said to do the same.

Link:http://img01.deviantart.net/18d7/i/2013 ... 64yel3.jpg

You can see that on the face side so I'm going to drop the anime thing because I already set off on the wrong foot. And I'm going to motion myself towards the actual human thing, therefor that gives me space to go forward rather than going backwards. Thank you for giving me what I don't deserve and helping me to prepare for a better future.

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Re: Need Art Coach

#10 Post by MaiMai » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:26 pm

Also, another reason why we're all pointing you towards either self-study and/or a real life offline art class is because, well, since you mentioned you're 13, that makes you a minor and again, I mentioned that there's a lot of adults on this forum. You might want to think twice before asking a stranger online to help you out and be involved in teaching you for a long period of time.

This should go without saying, but it's better to mention it than not. You need to protect yourself when you browse online and talk to strangers.
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Re: Need Art Coach

#11 Post by NaSetsu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:48 pm

MaiMai wrote:Also, another reason why we're all pointing you towards either self-study and/or a real life offline art class is because, well, since you mentioned you're 13, that makes you a minor and again, I mentioned that there's a lot of adults on this forum. You might want to think twice before asking a stranger online to help you out and be involved in teaching you for a long period of time.

This should go without saying, but it's better to mention it than not. You need to protect yourself when you browse online and talk to strangers.
That's very true, I recognized not many people will respond to this as stated by many people and I have already started my self studying. It's not that hard though since I started drawing when I was young the only hard part is finding the right tutorials. Google is a very good engine but not all the time does it give you what you ask for. Thank you for mentioning that though.

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