Visual novels vs other mediums

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Horma
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Visual novels vs other mediums

#1 Post by Horma »

Sorry if this has already been discussed...

I've often heard people saying that VNs are just a cheap way to do anime and have no merits of their own. I don't agree because I actually prefer visual novels to cinematic mediums. VNs are easier to follow and I just feel more connected to the characters. Also, doing an anime with choices and consequenses would be overkill for even the most dedicated and resourceful creators.

I also think visual novels have some merits that books don't have. In prose, you typically have to describe some mundane stuff in an interesting way, while in VNs that stuff can be presented with visuals and sound. That can make it easier for some readers. What is your opinion?

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#2 Post by Imperf3kt »

To me a visual novel is like an upgraded storybook.
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#3 Post by Ghost of Crux »

I feel the same, honestly.

I think VNs can offer narratives and experiences other media (especially games) cannot, or at least cannot without resorting also to pure storytelling. This is because narratives aren't just words or visuals, but also things like presentation, sounds, music, and sometimes those things just don't work well with common game styles. Can they do it if they try? Yeah, but it would still deliver a different experience. Likewise, novels can tell stories visual novels can, but I still believe that there are things about how a visual novel presents themselves that make them unique as a medium, and while it's sometimes underutilized it can't be waved aside. I always appreciate the fact that visual novels allow me to more easily hint at things using partial CGs or sound effects that lets subtle actions actually be subtle, for one. When writing prose, it can feel like actions might matter more than you want it to seem. It also allows use of actual visual imagery that don't technically bog down on the writing by adding an entire paragraph and making it overly flowery and tacky, which is neat.

Comparing visual novels to anime is honestly like comparing choose-your-own-adventures with adventure novels: looks sort of similar, but complete opposites at its core.

Basically, visual novel to me is its own world of possible ways you can deliver a narrative, and it's all because it's not just text with pretty pictures, but text, pretty pictures, music and sound effects.
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#4 Post by DannyGMaster »

As you said, VNs are a lot more than people think. I like VNs because most of the time the stories are downright amazing, even the silliest ones have a bit of depth, and you can enjoy them in any way you want. Most of the time you can save at any moment, you can go back if you made a mistake or if you don't like the way the story is turning. You can't do that with anime, where the ending and the story are set in stone no matter how much you want to change it. Even without choices, VNs have so much more going on for them, the music, the art wich is usually great, and above all, the writing, I've come to love a lot of visual novel characters even more so than characters in any other media, simply because they are so well written that they feel real, and when you interact with them you stop seeing them as pixels on a screen and actually start caring for them. That feeling when you clear your favorite character's route and see the happy ending cg and the credits roll, is one that I will never forget.
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#5 Post by Horma »

Thanks for the opinions!

An example on how VNs>anime for me is Dangan Ronpa (mostly VNs, anyway). While the characters are walking stereotypes and the storyline is not that unique, I bawl everytime I see those characters suffer. The anime version of DR1 and DR3 however feel very rushed and the only character I really felt for was Juzo in DR3.

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#6 Post by Mammon »

Just like the difference between manga and anime, VNs have the advantage that people can pick their own pace of how fast to read it. That is, at least in my opinion, a very big plus. Look at manga, lower art quality black-and-white static images but there are still plenty of people who prefer it over an anime of the exact same story. With VNs it's rarer because they're less adapted and the anime usually needs to take creative liberties to merge the routes.

I also like choose-your-own-adventure stories, but they are just a bit different from VNs. They tend to be a bit more of the plot and action variant and less of character development. Not a bad thing, but they do tend to come off as rushed, slow, or even both at the same time because of their lack of depth. A bit more grindy (stat-based choices) or short-term choices for flair rather than story relevance. Though they would (or at least could) be easier to make for indie writers.

I could continue comparing VNs with specific mediums for a lot longer still, but I'll keep it at this. No one's waiting for my mumblings to continue infinitely. I'll leave some for the rest of the community.
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#7 Post by Katy133 »

Another thing that VNs can do that anime cannot is using game mechanics to help tell the story.

If you look at visual novels like Her Tears Were My Light, Save the Date, and my own VN, [redacted] Life, all those VNs use the save/reload game mechanic to help tell the story, either as a form of time travel, a Groundhog Day-style loop plot, or as a way of explaining how the main character remembers previous events from past playthroughs. This type of storytelling wouldn't really translate well in an anime.
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#8 Post by Rarykos »

Fun middle ground between games and books! That's how I sell them to my friends.
And I always explain that you have these normal picture books, and the ones where you choose what happens and the ones with some puzzles in them. People see this as a strange toy but I think that's the clearest distinction :D

I dabbled in writing stories, making games and a little simple VN and I have to say all of them have their pros and cons, even though for the longest time I shouted "GAMES! All the way!"
But I'm not experienced enough to say what pros VNs exactly have.

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#9 Post by gekiganwing »

A reader can proceed through a visual novel at their own pace. They can read as fast or as slow as they want. This is not easy to do when watching film or television. (A person *can* speed up / slow down the video, but it takes effort.)

It is possible to set some visual novels to auto mode and just let the story unfold. However, I think that enjoying a VN requires a decent amount of the reader's attention. It takes a degree of commitment to shut off other media and focus on the story. This is different from some TV and movies which can be considered background noise, and be half-ignored by people.

There are certainly VNs which include gameplay. However, they can be considered complete experiences even if they don't feature challenging interactive elements. In my opinion, it's refreshing to find a VN fan whose first reaction to a story is something other than "why can't I play this battle?"

As others have said, VNs make it easy to create alternate paths through a story, as well as multiple endings. This concept has been explored in other forms of entertainment. However, in the context of a VN or video game, these ideas seem less like experimental fiction. Also, VN creators don't have to create additional pages of a book, or film additional animated / live action video in order to design different endings.

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#10 Post by hoihoisoi »

I feel like visual novels are a more wholesome package that is the cross between a book, an anime and a manga. It has elements from all of them thrown into the mix and so it's really hard to compare one with the other since individually they have their own strengths and weaknesses. But personally, after being an avid VN player for close to about two years now, visual novels still provides me with the most consistent amount of enjoyment compared to the other mediums around.

A book I feel can sometimes be a bit tiring to read considering that the quality of the writing has to be tip top if the author is to convey a scene to the reader. What this means to me is that, unless the writing is really good, it's going to be hard for me as a reader to imagine the scene written on those pages from purely the words used by the author. Personally, I get bored with books sometimes because of this. If the writing isn't powerful enough to invoke images or emotions in my mind, it just becomes another string of words on a page, which then makes me lose interest in reading. Visual novels on the other hand shortcuts some parts of this by providing the reader with a visual, making the scene much more self explanatory than if it were purely in the form of words. You can see the expressions, the gestures that the characters are making and the kind of setting they are in. It's easier to imagine them talking to each other due to the visual and auditory aids.

Manga and anime on the other hand both face a very similar problem for me, and that is production time. You can't finish the story in one go but instead have to wait for updates every week/month. It isn't so much of a problem if you're following only one or two, but when you're interested in a few, it gets frustrating, knowing that you'll have divide your time between all of them at the end of the week to get through each of them. Maybe this is just me, but I do prefer to finish a single anime/manga before moving on to the next one. In that sense, VNs will most of the time give you that satisfaction of being able to close the book shut and call it a day. Moving on to the next VN is usually easier since there are little to no updates to wait for.

All in all, I prefer VNs mostly because they suit my reading style. It's a more wholesome package to me, although that can be argued from person to person. In the end, it's all about personal preference and so it's hard to actually say a VN can be enjoyed by a general crowd of book lovers/ anime enthusiasts etc. Some people prefer mediums like books or anime or manga, it's not because one is better than the other but merely that that particular medium suits their taste and preference.

Well, that's just my two cents on the topic! X)
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#11 Post by sendo »

One thing I really like about VNs is the introspection of the MC's thoughts. VNs tend to delve deeper into the character's thoughts/stance/emotions/beliefs/reasoning, so I find it easier to sympathize with the character. Anime/manga has limited run-time/panels so thoughts are usually condensed or conveyed through other means. VNs allow the writer to go in-depth and personal with a character's thought process.

This is a double-edged sword though. When the writer is good, it's fun to read through a character's mind because you explore the character's personality/reasoning/what makes the character tick. But it can also become tedious to slog through when all the character talks about is pointless drivel you don't care to hear about or has little to do with the plot or theme.
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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#12 Post by Horma »

Sendo, I agree about bad writing. Somehow it's really apparent in certain VNs, while in anime/manga one might be able to ignore it.

Other bothersome things I've seen in lots of VNs are useless exposition and repetition. That stuff is why I can't call my dearest Dangan Ronpa games well written. I don't really know why they are so prevalent.

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#13 Post by SundownKid »

Horma wrote:Sendo, I agree about bad writing. Somehow it's really apparent in certain VNs, while in anime/manga one might be able to ignore it.

Other bothersome things I've seen in lots of VNs are useless exposition and repetition. That stuff is why I can't call my dearest Dangan Ronpa games well written. I don't really know why they are so prevalent.
I think the mistake you are making is assuming that one flaw in the writing ruins an entire game's writing.

Is the writing in Danganronpa flawless? Hell to the no. But, it's still good in the aspects that matter. If people think they can make a better game, then make it, otherwise Danganronpa will still be the best written game of its kind.

Visual novels are certainly not a "cheap way to do anime" though. In my experience they are usually superior to anime, because the vast majority of anime have writing that is far below even a visual novel. I guess it goes hand in hand with the fact that anime is dying on the vine in Japan due to antiquated business models that force them to pander to people who don't care about storytelling. Anime is capable of an incredible amount, the potential has barely been tapped except in the more famous works of which there are not a whole lot.

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#14 Post by LateWhiteRabbit »

sendo wrote: This is a double-edged sword though. When the writer is good, it's fun to read through a character's mind because you explore the character's personality/reasoning/what makes the character tick. But it can also become tedious to slog through when all the character talks about is pointless drivel you don't care to hear about or has little to do with the plot or theme.
This is probably my #1 pet-peeve about Visual Novels. The Internal Purple Prose of Drivel™ disease that affects so many of its protagonists and narrators. How many potential new fans to the genre have put it aside forever because of a pointless opening where the protagonist waxes poetic to the clouds for 15+ minutes before any plot kicks off, or we see our first character sprite? That's like a novel taking 15 pages before anything happens. Like all mediums, pacing is KEY to visual novels.

I've seen two great uses of the internal character monologue recently, one in a visual novel, the other in an anime. Both kick off with the character thinking to themselves while performing relatively mundane acts. Neither scene lasted for more than 5 minutes, but served as great character introductions, because in both cases, it quickly became apparent that what the protagonist was saying to themselves (us) was a lie. Unreliable narrators for the win!

And please, don't open a Visual Novel on a picture of clouds in the sky. This has been a public service announcement. Thank you.

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Re: Visual novels vs other mediums

#15 Post by TellerFarsight »

Makoto Naegi opened Danganronpa with what felt like 20 minutes of internally driveling purple prose while staring at the sky, and that's one of the most respected VNs out there! No one can escape it!

To me, visual novels are an evolution of these videos I used to watch as a kid, where someone would take the audio from a children's author doing a reading of their own book, and play it overtop slowly panning, slightly zoomed in images of each page. I can't find any of those videos now, but the nostalgia of it feels right. Western style VNs feel like adult versions of those stories and videos. An example that immediately comes to mind is Romancing the Code, which feels very storybook-like. Anime-inspired VNs aren't really that different a beast; as much as I love watching the care and beauty of the animation, a story can be as immersive and come across just as well with mostly static sprites against static backgrounds.

It's just that little step above text novel. When you read a novel, you come up with images in your head of what the characters look like and sort of imagine locations and it's not a super detailed movie playing in your head but it's enough that you understand what's happening and enjoy the story. A VN gives you a little nudge, saying "here's exactly what this character looks like and here's what the environment around them looks like, now YOU put them in motion."

There's always that moment, with the movement of a book to movie form, that I watch it and think "that's not how I pictured it," and I feel weirdly disappointed. A VN does that to much less of an extent, because it sort of bridges that gap between novel and motion picture by making a picture novel.

On top of all that, a VN is free to move into the realm of video game, where interactivity lets the player decide the path of the story. It's of course not interactive like most video games, it's as interactive as a choose-your-own-adventure book, but again you only need that little tiny nudge to remind you that it's not a passive experience. Like a choose-your-own-adventure movie, which I've seen on youtube and are just as kitschy as they sound.

VNs are kind of like the horror genre in that they are relatively simple to make (I don't know how to code a horror game, but in the grand scheme of game development it's easy to design), and so a lot of people give it a try and produce a lot of garbage. It's that exact phenomenon that gives VNs a bad rap. There are a lot of really good ones out there, but plenty of bad ones get their share of the light.
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