How to keep artists committed?

[trooper6]

I read somewhere that when it comes to commissions, there are three things that people want: cheap, fast, good. You can get two, but you can’t get all three.

You can get fast and good, but it won’t be cheap.
You can get fast and cheap, but it won’t be good.
You can get good and cheap, but it won’t be fast.

[Mutive]

One other thought I had to add is that it's good to have the ability for recourse. Paypal gives a 180 day period in which to file a claim. So, say, you have a $1,000 commission, half paid up front, the other half due at the end of the period, and the artist isn't finished by the end of the period...that's when you file the claim for the $500 you paid up front.

Make sure that you mark the payment "goods and services" and that you have everything specified in writing. But if you're paying artists and they're not completing the work they are paid for, it is fair to claw back the initial payment. (Even if they're half way done! If the half way done sprites aren't useful to you...then the job wasn't finished.)

[morinoir]

Whoa Mutive, I'll have to say something regarding filing claim.

While it convenient for the commissioner, it can be REALLY damaging to the artist especially if commissioner doesn't communicate (aka gives warning) about it beforehand. If the case is you give the money to the artist, but then afterward you can't get them to reply your message and you don't get any update about your commission from them, it saves to assume you're being scammed and this is where filing claim comes in handy. But, let's say you get significant update every week and they still reply you in timely manner, but they failed to fulfill the deadline for whatever reason. I think it's unfair if you decide to just file the claim for refund without knowing their situation.

What I'm saying is, communication is key. If both artist and commissioner can keep the communication open, good chance is the artist has good work ethic and the commissioner is a good client, regardless of how much money changing hands here. That's why as the client, try not to pay a big amount of money at once. Even though it's only half of the payment, $500 is still a lot of money and I don't recommend spending that much money at once, especially if it's your first time working with the artist.

Also, quite contrary to namastaii suggestion, online contract is more of a formality, although I can't say much about this. Most artist and client you find in lemmasoft work on small scale, and it's unlikely we can afford to hire a lawyer to solve the dispute about payment.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I read somewhere that when it comes to commissions, there are three things that people want: cheap, fast, good. You can get two, but you can’t get all three.

You can get fast and good, but it won’t be cheap.
You can get fast and cheap, but it won’t be good.
You can get good and cheap, but it won’t be fast.

It is true for any kind of craft or design work, really. We had this printed out and framed at my last job (out of sight of clients).

Also, quite contrary to namastaii suggestion, online contract is more of a formality, although I can't say much about this. Most artist and client you find in lemmasoft work on small scale, and it's unlikely we can afford to hire a lawyer to solve the dispute about payment.

Contracts for online commission work are mostly a formality, but I still find them useful. It puts everything in writing in an unambiguous way for both parties and helps determine if both sides are serious.

I've said it before, but contracts don't have to be crazy detailed and full of legal words. They only need to cover a few things: What is being delivered from who to whom, how much is being paid and when and how, and what the deadlines are. Then just have both parties reply to the contract email with, "I, NAME, agree to this contract."

Can you legally go after someone if they break contract? Probably not. Especially not if they are in another country. But it does create a communication trail that can be useful in disputes. And sometimes people genuinely forget what they agreed to if it was several months ago. It helps to have something to forward them as a reminder sometimes. I've actually had clients that would sometimes ask for something different or say what I delivered wasn't what they wanted, and I've been able to send them the contract to show them what they agreed to. The response was almost universally, "Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. I'd forgotten." Then we could arrange changes or more work for an additional charge. I don't think any of them had malicious intent, they were just a little scatterbrained.

[trooper6]

LWR, I love that graphic! It is awesome!

[Mutive]

Whoa Mutive, I'll have to say something regarding filing claim.

While it convenient for the commissioner, it can be REALLY damaging to the artist especially if commissioner doesn't communicate (aka gives warning) about it beforehand. If the case is you give the money to the artist, but then afterward you can't get them to reply your message and you don't get any update about your commission from them, it saves to assume you're being scammed and this is where filing claim comes in handy.

Oh, I agree. You always want to bring it up with the artist first. (It's usually the easiest way to get things handled.) But let's say you spend $1K on commissioning, say, 10 sprites to be done in a month. You pay $500 up front. Month passes. Nothing. You ask. No response. You ask again. No response. (I believe this is more or less what OP was describing, although I could be wrong.) You ask again, mentioning that you will bring up a dispute if the issue isn't settled. No response.

At that point, yes, it is only fair to file a claim. (The artist at this point - at best - chose to take money and not deliver. At worst the artist is defrauding the commissioner.)

And it *is* reasonable for someone paying for a commission to check the terms of payment websites. (I think Paypal gives 180 days, for instance, to file a claim and it must be marked as "goods and services" vs. a gift.) I state this mostly in that I've been burned badly when I've commissioned stuff in the past (cosplay items, not art, but a similar principle applies) where the artist then vanishes (or creates something not at all as described, or delivers three months after they said they would - which for cosplay stuff often means never getting a chance to wear it).

If someone accepts a commission then doesn't deliver what they agreed to, they need to refund the money they accepted. If they don't, it's entirely fair for the commissioner to start a dispute to claw back the money they paid.

[vorgbardo]

Many more good points in the new messages, thank you.

Regarding payment method and recourse: as stated before, I pay each sprite separately, in two parts, first half for the sketch, and then second half for the finished version. This works very well for individual sprites. but the problem is artists quitting in the middle of a larger commission, rendering the already created graphics useless to me. This is the core problem that I wish to solve somehow. Paying the whole commission in advance would solve nothing, the artist could still quit and I would probably lose even larger amount of money. Paying the commission only after everything is finished would be great for me, but it would be too risky for the artist (and inconvenient as well, as she'd lack a steady income). So far it seems the only real solution to this is an extremely meticulous selection process for the artist.

Regarding payment disputes: even legally binding written contracts are in practice of little use in small projects like this if problems ensue. It is of course good to have things in writing for clarity, but legal costs for any concrete actions would be too high.

Regarding revisions: I don't think it's fair to ask for more than 1 revision at sketch phase and 1 revision at final phase without separate payment (unless the additional changes are REALLY minor and take only minutes to make). In my experience, artists usually inform beforehand how many / what kind of revisions they are willing to make without extra payment, but I don't know how common this really is.

Regarding the fast/good/cheap issue and schedules: I wish the art to be of as good quality as possible, I try to pay moderately well but can't afford game studio level prices, and as a result of the formula I don't expect fast deliveries. If the artist gets a better paying commission in the middle of things, I don't mind her doing it before continuing my project. If the artist wishes to work at her leisure, it's perfectly fine. I only want to be informed of what the situation is, and to get my complete commission done at some point in time.

Regarding the price and hiring professionals: as stated before, my total budget for the game is about $3000 (USD). It took me over two years to save that amount. I did research of character sprite prices beforehand, and I think the $50-$150 I can afford per character sprite (depending on complexity and variations) is not a bad price. However, real professionals ask $250-$1000+ per character sprite; I'd need to save money for several more years to be able to afford their prices. It is simply not feasible, so I have to try to find a way to make this work with freelancers.

[Per K Grok]

--- but the problem is artists quitting in the middle of a larger commission, rendering the already created graphics useless to me. ---

Is it not possible to get a different artist to complete the job in a sufficiently similar style?

When you are in the situation that you can not be certain that one artist will complete all necessary sprites, it would make sense to me to have a 'house-style' for the game that is within the range where you can find a reasonable amount of artists that are comfortable with that style.

Just a thought. Possibly not very useful when you already are well into the game.

Not that I have any experience in using other artists. I draw all my stuff myself.

[vorgbardo]

Is it not possible to get a different artist to complete the job in a sufficiently similar style?

This is definitely a possibility, I'm currently trying to do this before ordering a third set, but so far no luck. Most artists don't seem to be interested in and/or comfortable trying to duplicate someone else's style (I can understand why, probably both boring and very hard). In this case all characters also have identical suits, adding to the complexity of completing the job in so similar style that it would not be distracting.

When you are in the situation that you can not be certain that one artist will complete all necessary sprites, it would make sense to me to have a 'house-style' for the game that is within the range where you can find a reasonable amount of artists that are comfortable with that style.

This is a very interesting idea, if I ever start another project I'll see if this could be realized.

[vorgbardo]

Two more personalized replies still:

It's a bit too late now, but for future, and for others, I have an idea.
Try to ask artist to draw batch in stages.
For example - sketches of all characters first, so you can check if they're similar in style.
Then, lineart of all characters. This will also help - in case artist quits, you can hire someone else to just do coloring/additional expressions and not start everything from scratch.
And finally colors/shading. I would personally try to split payment for everything in 2 installments, one for sketch + lineart, and second for colors.

This is a very good practical suggestion, I may try this out also if I ever start another game project.

Thank you for taking the time to write this, it was a really good read throughout.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

This is definitely a possibility, I'm currently trying to do this before ordering a third set, but so far no luck. Most artists don't seem to be interested in and/or comfortable trying to duplicate someone else's style (I can understand why, probably both boring and very hard). In this case all characters also have identical suits, adding to the complexity of completing the job in so similar style that it would not be distracting.

Unfortunately you'll find that it is the expensive professional artists that are able to duplicate styles and match styles precisely. So you'd kind of be back in the same boat. Style-matching is something done with studio projects - a lead artist or designer creates the look of the project and usually gives tips on replicating his or her style, then the other junior artists practice drawing in that style. See this example from the packet given to Disney artists to draw like Chris Sanders. So it can add expense and time even a professional artist, since they will probably do several test drawings for themselves to nail down the style before committing to your piece.

Thank you for taking the time to write this, it was a really good read throughout.

No problem. I hate seeing people have bad experiences with artists - it doesn't make the rest of us look good.

I feel extremely lucky being able to do the art for my own projects. I certainly couldn't afford myself otherwise. It can be something of a curse though, as where other developers would have natural limits to the scope of their project based on what they could afford art and sprites for, I can add as many characters and situations as I want for essentially free outside of my own time expenditure.

I have written and scoped projects outside of my ability to actually create in a reasonable time frame. Often. One of the recent ones has dozens of pages of 10 point typed notes with world building, game mechanics, etc. but when I did my asset evaluation (where I go through and itemize the number of sprites, expressions, poses, backgrounds, etc. I'll need) I found I would need over 70 character sprites with different expressions and at least half with pose variations. Which, you know, is stupid insane. It would take me over a year just for those sprites, not counting the backgrounds. I could probably pare that down by a third, but any less than that would destroy the core concept. So that is another project shelved for the moment until I'm magically able to draw faster or get rich enough to hire a team. If I had been forced to see each new character as a dollar sign I might not have written myself into such a situation.

I really hope you are able to get your art sorted and your game successfully made. Keep us updated.

[Inksword]

I know this thread has been quiet, but I thought I might offer another solution for you. Have you thought of ordering each step of the sprites as a single group, rather than the sprites individually? IE: Instead of ordering (sketch + line art + color)x10, instead order 10 sketches, and then 10 line arts, and then 10 colors?

10 sketches are WAY less labor intensive than 10 full sprites. I'd even hazard a guess that 10 sketches are probably the equivalent effort of 3-5 sprites, which is around where you've been having artists crap out on you. Once you have a set of 10 sketches, even if your artist goes MIA, you have a base for your characters to be unified in style and skill. You're also out less money if they don't work out. Then, rather than looking for another artist who will do brand new sprites, just find one to do the lineart, then the color.

Overall, it'll probably cost a bit more than packaging them all together (depending on the quality,) as there's sort've a basic fee for "entry" when starting a commission. However, the most important thing, is even if a single artist doesn't work out, you're not reset to absolute zero when they do so. You also miiight be able to save money by hiring really good artists for part of the setup (sketch base is probably most important) and then weaker ones work will sort of be heightened a bit by the stronger artist, and might be cheaper too. You might end up patch-working a couple artists' styles together, but a distinctive drawing style + a distinctive inking style + a distinctive coloring style may not be as harmonious as a unified style, but it will still equal a cohesive style, which is the most important thing for your game.

[skyeworks]

This is late but I want to say that I agree with Inksword idea! This is a brilliant idea and it used in many studios as well. (one artist does the line art, another color ) and the whole vn looks well put together. And well, it not meshing well would be up to the person that

It also helps that some artists are better in one area over another as well, I had an ex-friend, she was very weak in drawing (not really good on anatomy, hands were....bad.) But her coloring was amazing and made the art looks professional.

So I kinda don't agree so much with the "uses the less skilled artist for coloring advise" but do agree that most of the time it's the case. Some would be great the coloring portion but not so much the sketches and some just don't care about color but works hard in putting awesome details.

[Mythee]

Contract idea sounds good to me. Something where you pay half upon sketch completion and approval, then the other half when they've finished everything, but if they never finish the whole thing, then they contractually owe you a refund for the half you paid at the sketch stage.

But as for your specific situation, I'd say you should try to hire an artist based on whether or not they can match the style of the other completed sprites instead of starting over from scratch. Many artists are skilled at imitating art styles that are not their own. This will save you time and money!

Procrastination and not being able to finish the things you start often comes with creativity, but true professionals have discipline, and that's what sets apart the very many professional artists with entire art careers (or those who have what it takes to become them.) A track record of complete group projects is a good, yeah. But if you want some extra tips and tricks on how to keep an artist's art muse alive and kicking so that professional discipline is less of a requirement for them to be able to see things through, here are a few:

1) Are you someone who gives an artist creative leeway? Make sure you find someone who likes having that space to exert their creativity and design. If they are the type to say things like "I'm not the creative type" despite being an artist, then it's probably a big hint that you should be giving them clear, detailed instructions on exactly what you want- provide concept boards of clothes/models/poses you want/etc, don't make them have to think about what to draw themselves. In the opposite case, if the artist is someone who likes to come up with character designs on their own, make sure you give them things to play with, like "oh, I need character x to have this hairstyle/face style/etc., but you can come up with the dress yourself!"

2) Keep them engaged in the team. Make sure there's back and forth discussion between the members working on the project, include them in a Discord group or something, show everyone involved progress shots from everyone elses work, keep them in a headspace where they understand they are part of a team and that there is continuous progress (that the project isn't stalling).

3) Teambuilding. Schedule weekly team voice or video calls, or gaming sessions (ever heard of boardgameonline?) etc.

4) Ask for their thoughts and feelings on the project frequently. Use that feedback. Show them they matter to the project.