Read it. I am intrigued. I will likely send in more coherent thoughts in the form of an article, but my initial reaction is as such:
-I've made a conscious choice to never sell my VNs, but I don't see anything wrong with other people wanting to sell theirs. I think it's healthy for the community, and all the problems mentioned don't stem from the desire to go commercial.
-Having a spotlight for what's released each month is cool. I wouldn't mind line breaks between each of the games listed. Or if there's space, even a screencap? It might be super ambitious to ask for a summary and/or review as well?
-Having a fiction piece is also cool. I think there should also be a section to show off artwork.
-It's probably a lot to ask, since there are a lot of formatting issues, but is it possible to make an HTML version? Not that I don't like downloading a .PDF, but...I don't like downloading a .PDF. Yeah, I'm spoiled.
Thanks for all the work you put into this. I enjoyed it and I look forward to more.
A magazine is a great way to make controversial statements without giving room for dissident voices to respond. It even makes you sound quasi-authoritative. Congratulations.
Wintermoon wrote:A magazine is a great way to make controversial statements without giving room for dissident voices to respond. It even makes you sound quasi-authoritative. Congratulations.
A magazine is really just a "format" if you will - how it is used is really in the hands of the editors.
They should recognize the unique features and flavor of the medium (i.e. pdf, no instant feedback) and put them to positive use, use content provided by the contributors in a suitable and dignified way and so on. These would be my expectations.
The specifics of the format - a lack of instant feedback, in this case - should ideally be motivators, for me in this case it was an incentive to consider all possible sides of a given topic.
The truth is, people who want to argue will find a way, regardless of the format. In much the same way pretty much any format can be used to be constructive by those who don't want to argue.
So anyway, congratulations on the first issue, and good luck for the future as well.
PS: As for the PDF format, I actually like the inflexibility of that, makes it look less like Web 2.0. The Escapist lost a lot of this "clumsy" charm when it went HTML, at least for me. So I'd actually be in the for-PDF camp.
PS2: Or maybe a work-around can be if there is a Firefox extension for converting online PDF into HTML, if you use that browser.
Look, I know a lot of work went into this magazine. I know I have no right to tell any of you what to do or not to do. And I know that I certainly don't speak for this community, or for anybody other than myself. I even know that I am being completely irrational right now.
But I still feel the need to voice the feeling of disgust that this magazine has provoked in me. The very format creates a producer/consumer culture, as opposed to the participatory culture of these fora. This for opinion pieces? I refuse to be a passive consumer of opinions, and I'm not nearly arrogant enough to think of myself as a producer. Opinions should be discussed, not handed down.
I have plenty of objections to the actual content of the magazine - places where I felt that my own perspective was misrepresented or ignored - but why even bother discussing them? Even if I reach the authors of the articles, even if I change their mind, the original articles will stand untouched. I have no way to reach the readers of the articles as they are reading them. In effect, I have been silenced.
I also can't say that I like to see OELVNs whored out in full-page ads.
Magazines exist out of necessity. They are needed when a community becomes too large to have any direct discussions. They represent an extreme form of moderation, where a select few must speak for the whole community. It will be a sad day when the OELVN community reaches this point. Even then, I would hope that the community splinters into many separate communities with separate message boards so that the participatory spirit of the community remains.
Well, since I gave it a read I might as well offer my thoughts on it.
First off, the PDF format, I kind of like it. It takes a bit of time to open and is rather clunky, but somehow I find that it adds to the magazine feel.
What I missed was a review section. It seems like a natural thing to include. Given the rate of completed projects I wouldn't recomment a preview corner though. The release list also was nice but a break between every release would make it a lot easier to read.
As for the full-page ads I didn't really.. expect anything of that nature. Guess I don't read enough magazines. XD They just felt.. in the way.
Might as well just keep on reading LSF, all in all. Basically, nothing in this thing offers any advantage over just posting on the forums, with several disadvantages. I'm not saying that a 'zine is necessarily a bad idea, but in this execution it's completely pointless. Your opinion pieces are pretty much par for the course for forum posts here, your layout is significantly worse than subSilver, you can't comment, and the interviews aren't particularly insightful either, especially considering that I could easily ask the persons in question myself. Everything in this is 100% centered on LSF anyway (ridiculously blatantly so, I laughed when reading your "essays"), and if you don't think past LSF even for a second, you are wasting your time making a zine.
A few days ago there was this discussion about featured renpy games in the renpy section, and I tried to explain the fundamental principles of that problem to my wife - how this human decision is better than a set of criteria and what dangers a selection process holds and what it implies and all those things.
Anyway, at one point (obviously, she's heard enough), she tells me to stop fiddling around with principles and just go and buy the groceries we needed since we had plans for just-the-two-of-us dinner, which is what I did and we had a great evening. And that's not really the point of the story, the point is that I was able to just dismiss the whole argument with a "live and let live" approach and not really worry about it. Not that I wouldn't care. But I didn't feel like it was something that should drive me through the wall.
This in turn brought me to a realization, that when I recalled my most intensive arguments and most fierce defence of principles (on these forums), they always came in times when my inspiration and sense of purpose in what I do was the lowest.
I was reminded of this when the one-pagers of the BTW were brought up and how differently they could be viewed. I thought it would be so great if there could be an older game, which people would normally not remember, presented in a nice way so that people would consider playing it, and this is why I suggested Kasuka to the editors. But if you're looking at it from a different angle, with lots of emotions, it's kind of understandable that it can also look like "whoring".
Back to the point, sure you can view a webzine like that with all the negativity, and with a little effort find even more ways why this is the wrong approach. It's not my place to say which is the right way, but whenever I found some small thing that absolutely completely irritated me and caused me to fight a bit too much for principles, in the end, I was always really angry at myself, that I let things like that do that to me. It doesn't mean I would have ended up loving the ideas/things, but that's not the point. That excessive bitterness or negativity (not necessarily just one which I expressed in posts, but mainly the actual one that occupied my mind), felt like a waste. Especially when I found myself reading something (often almost anything) and, negativity itself being the goal, just looking for arguments or ways with which to dismiss it, in funny, irreverent, cool, factual, sarcastic or other ways, just to make me feel good.
Somehow, whenever I'm inspired or happy in general, I find it easy to ultimately wave my hand over something and smile about it. In the game-making environment, if I actively participate in a flame or a fight for principles, and I subconsciously feel it's really intensive, it's actually procrastination - this much honesty with myself I have to have.
Again, I don't think that it's wrong to dislike the whole idea of the webzine, who knows what I would have thought a year ago, or if I was in a different situation. It's not the point of this post anyway. It was just that the intensity of the negativity reminded me of what I felt at times myself.
In the game-making environment, if I actively participate in a flame or a fight for principles, and I subconsciously feel it's really intensive, it's actually procrastination
Wow. I never thought of it that way, it makes a lot of sense. If you're not giving constructive criticism, maybe it is just a form of procrastination.
I read a little bit of the zine, I liked the fact that it exists. It creates puts a spotlight on VNs in a format that is different than the forums. I think a zine gives importance, and a little more prestige to the medium of VNs for the outside world. Where a stranger to VNs can see that this hobby has enough of a following to merit a magazine gives it a form of credibility outside the community.
That's not to say it's perfect of course. But for a free zine, I don't really care for perfection. If they actually put out an issue each month I'll be impressed.
I would like to see some improvements nevertheless. It's true that the questions are a little light and could have dug a little deeper. A section for reviewing new games and maybe an 'old' game too would be nice. I hope to see more dissenting views to get a larger scale of opinions. Screenshots are always welcomed. I don't mind full page ads if they're well done. Perhaps they could issue a challenge for game creators (or maybe that's a little too much to ask?). An analysis of what makes a game interesting. Maybe more about the history of Renai games (personally I know nothing of it, especially all those japanese terms provok a blank stare on my part).
So all in all thanks for making it, and giving it away for free. If you can keep the pace and listen to your readers I'm sure you're bound to improve with each issue. Best of luck!
"The universe is non-simultaneously apprehended"
— Buckminster Fuller
Ignoring the content for a moment, I'm just wondering why the authors decided to make everyone wait a minute to download it from lousy filehosts, rather than either attaching it here, or posting it to a website.
Supporting creators since 2004 (When was the last time you backed up your game?)
First off, I'd like to congratulate everyone who helped make this zine. Making something like this takes time and effort and actually getting out a finished product is something to be lauded cuz let's face it, most people will give up half way or just plain don't finish. So thumbs up!
Second off, I agree with sake-bento in regards to the first two points. Spaces between the release titles would be better - makes reading easier. Either that or make the title a font size or two bigger, interchange text color per title, add a bullet point per title, etc. Also, commercialism isn't what made the changes in the dynamics of the forum - it's the people, imo. There was the third panel of the last comic where I couldn't read the small text. I really feel that text should be easily read at 100% and not make readers change the zoom #'s. At mikey's article, I didn't like how the text on the second page was placed all the way up next to the picture. It's a total disconnect; it's width is different from the original and it has the glaringly blank space below it. Btw, why not add some mini descriptions of the articles in the table of contents or add mini avatars for the contributors? It's rather... spare. *
Third, what's with all the hate? Sure, one can't technically respond to any of these articles but hey, that's what this thread is for right? And if you disagree with what is written, why not submit your own opinion piece? They can release it in their next issue and maybe they can start a mailbag section. I don't personally see what's wrong with games being put in as "ads". I was quite surprised to see Kasuka and truthfully, quite delighted to see it posted. It's an old classic and as mikey said, it's a great way for old games to be pointed out. It beats seeing non-related "ads" any day. I could go on with some other things but I'll cut it short and say this:
It's their first issue. Give them a break! They'll get better if you just give them some constructive criticism.
I'll really like to read this, but unfortunately none of the file hosts work on my computer due to a combination of router/country IP issues. As PyTom suggested, attaching it here would really help.
Not to rain on the parade or anything, but who exactly here's even going commercial in the first place...?
There's Papillion... But she's been selling her works since the beginning of time.
And there's Jack Norton, but he's also been selling his works for a long time, and he only found renpy recently...
I guess Counter Arts has been trying, but he hasn't sold anything yet, from what I know.
From what I know, Kuroi has been selling games too, but I don't know how successful she's been.
In the past, there was Sexual Fantasy Kingdom, which made a decent profit on DLSite, if I'm correct.
I also think that HentaiSenshi was selling games in the past.
Eh, four people today verses two people in the past. Clearly a floodgate has opened and a mob of people have gone commercial. Run for the hills everyone!
