What annoys you in visual novels?

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uluuu
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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#31 Post by uluuu »

I really don't like repetition.
ONE wrote:Hello childhood friend who always wakes me up! Let's be late for school again. ...Lunch time! Let's bother the girl in front of me. Or not. School's over! Time for bed.

(next day)

Gosh! It's raining! Hello childhood friend who always wakes me up! Let's be late for school again. ...Lunch time! Let's bother the girl in front of me. Or not. School's over! Time for bed.

(next day)

Hello childhood friend who always wakes me up! Let's be late for school again. ...Lunch time! Let's bother the girl in front of me. Or not. School's over! Time for bed.
Drives me insane.

Also I don't like it when I'm forced to spend a lot of time with a character I don't like. If its for actual development, that's cool with me, but I don't need to be shown in ten different ways that she is a tsundere robot who hates people and bananas, or whatever.

Those are annoying in any story, but it seems like I run into them more in this format. :?

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#32 Post by ebonyskies »

Yeah, repetition can be good in the sense that it makes the subtle nuances pop out, and can be a very good tool, but like many other things it has to have good execution in order to work well.

Also, there seems to be an effluence of games that center around one or a couple of settings. Twould be nice to have a wider variety. Although there's always the issue of time and manpower to deal with...
Currently in the pre-production stages of creating the VN Visit to Nowhere, a moderately dark modern fairytale. In progress thread will be created once out of the pre-production phase. =D

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#33 Post by Coatl »

I hate when you get whiny priss as a character. You know Mass Effect's conversation system is actually a great example on how to divide choices. More VN creators should take that into consideration.

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#34 Post by pinkmouse »

Coatl wrote:I hate when you get whiny priss as a character. You know Mass Effect's conversation system is actually a great example on how to divide choices. More VN creators should take that into consideration.
Could you give more details? I've not played Mass Effect.

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#35 Post by pinkmouse »

ebonyskies wrote:Also, there seems to be an effluence of games that center around one or a couple of settings. Twould be nice to have a wider variety. Although there's always the issue of time and manpower to deal with...
I guess "school stories" is obviously one setting that's possibly overdone, what are the others?

Contrariwise, what settings would you like to see?

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#36 Post by dott.Piergiorgio »

ebonyskies wrote:Yeah, repetition can be good in the sense that it makes the subtle nuances pop out, and can be a very good tool, but like many other things it has to have good execution in order to work well.
Trouble here is, that with repetition, the nuances can be overlooked (after a pair or so of repetition, when shows up again, the player skips at glance, missing the nuances, whose can be key in the story, esp. in VN.

Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#37 Post by ebonyskies »

pinkmouse wrote:
ebonyskies wrote:Also, there seems to be an effluence of games that center around one or a couple of settings. Twould be nice to have a wider variety. Although there's always the issue of time and manpower to deal with...
I guess "school stories" is obviously one setting that's possibly overdone, what are the others?

Contrariwise, what settings would you like to see?
School settings get repetitive, some I've seen some concentrate on houses that look greatly the same...and of course, there are some that introduce multiple settings, but only use a singular bg to represent that setting. It just sort of wears on me. =/

As for other settings...it would be nice to have a VN that centers around a journey of some sort. Or if it needs to be centered around only a couple settings, have a greater variety of bgs, to make it feel a bit more fresh. Also, VNs in a fantastical or sci-fi-esque setting get brownie points just for being a bit out of the ordinary.
dott.Piergiorgio wrote:
ebonyskies wrote: Yeah, repetition can be good in the sense that it makes the subtle nuances pop out, and can be a very good tool, but like many other things it has to have good execution in order to work well.

Trouble here is, that with repetition, the nuances can be overlooked (after a pair or so of repetition, when shows up again, the player skips at glance, missing the nuances, whose can be key in the story, esp. in VN.
A very good point, sadly. :( Which is why repetition needs to be used very skillfully.
Currently in the pre-production stages of creating the VN Visit to Nowhere, a moderately dark modern fairytale. In progress thread will be created once out of the pre-production phase. =D

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#38 Post by dizzcity »

ebonyskies wrote: As for other settings...it would be nice to have a VN that centers around a journey of some sort. Or if it needs to be centered around only a couple settings, have a greater variety of bgs, to make it feel a bit more fresh. Also, VNs in a fantastical or sci-fi-esque setting get brownie points just for being a bit out of the ordinary.
Actually, I find fantasy and sci-fi the next most common settings in VNs, after school stories. Historical mysteries is something that's fairly new to the medium, though quite common in this board (because of the availability of resources). But there are so many other settings not yet tried: Cowboy westerns, urban gangland, mountain villages, tropical jungle, island beaches, country clubs, dance clubs, corporate offices, trains, planes, and automobiles, Heaven and Hell.... the list is endless.

And we're still stuck doing stories about romance between high school classmates. *sigh* Why not between a barmaid and a gunslinger, or the son and daughter of rival gangs, or a mountain-climber and a tourist guide, or two explorers lost in the jungle, a surfer and a voodoo witch, an equestrian and a golfer, a DJ and a rave dancer, a female manager and her lowly employee, two fellow-travellers racing cross-country, an angel and a demon...

-Dizzy-
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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#39 Post by Coatl »

pinkmouse wrote:
Coatl wrote:I hate when you get whiny priss as a character. You know Mass Effect's conversation system is actually a great example on how to divide choices. More VN creators should take that into consideration.
Could you give more details? I've not played Mass Effect.
Well although Mass Effect is an action adventure RPG game from Bioware, it stands out in which the main character, Commander Shepard can be customized by sex, and you can customize his face with some flexibility (I made my female Shepard look like the villain from Shrek lol). And then as you go along with the game, you'll enter conversations during events or at casual time that let you make at least three choices that'll affect the out come, a good choice, a neutral choice, or a bad choice.
The choices always appear on cutscenes where the character interacts with people or things and they range from what you want to say in a conversation to whether or not you're willing to sacrifice an ally to save another. And although the endings are very limited, the experience will always be unique and since Bioware is already releasing a sequel to Mass Effect so, your actions will carryout onto the second game via your previous save file.

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#40 Post by ebonyskies »

dizzcity wrote: Actually, I find fantasy and sci-fi the next most common settings in VNs, after school stories. Historical mysteries is something that's fairly new to the medium, though quite common in this board (because of the availability of resources). But there are so many other settings not yet tried: Cowboy westerns, urban gangland, mountain villages, tropical jungle, island beaches, country clubs, dance clubs, corporate offices, trains, planes, and automobiles, Heaven and Hell.... the list is endless.

And we're still stuck doing stories about romance between high school classmates. *sigh* Why not between a barmaid and a gunslinger, or the son and daughter of rival gangs, or a mountain-climber and a tourist guide, or two explorers lost in the jungle, a surfer and a voodoo witch, an equestrian and a golfer, a DJ and a rave dancer, a female manager and her lowly employee, two fellow-travellers racing cross-country, an angel and a demon...

-Dizzy-
Oh, very nice. =D Someone totally needs to do the surfer and the voodoo witch one. XD Also, a revolutionary thought: maybe a VN without romance at all. =O Romance is certainly a powerful element in storytelling, but not nearly the only one. It would be kind of nice as a change of pace to play a well constructed game without a singular hint of romance. (Even though I'll admit I'm still a sucker for a good love story. <_< )

Anyways, I actually haven't played many sci-fi VNs...could be cause I haven't really been around the VN scene for that long though. Fantasy I can see as being a more frequent theme, seen a few of those around.
Currently in the pre-production stages of creating the VN Visit to Nowhere, a moderately dark modern fairytale. In progress thread will be created once out of the pre-production phase. =D

Plotting: 25%
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Demo: 50%

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#41 Post by Tsuki-chan »

dizzcity wrote: Heaven and Hell....an angel and a demon...
-Dizzy-
These are actually both covered in Animamundi: Dark Alchemist.
Just thought I'd throw that out there...XP

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#42 Post by dizzcity »

Tsuki-chan wrote:
dizzcity wrote: Heaven and Hell....an angel and a demon...
-Dizzy-
These are actually both covered in Animamundi: Dark Alchemist.
Just thought I'd throw that out there...XP
Oh, really? Haven't seen that yet. Hmmm... ah well, no problem. Scratch that off the list, and there's still plenty of other settings to explore.

And yeah, romance doesn't necessarily have to be present in a VN. Here, I think we're doing better... about a quarter of the last 50 or so games made with Ren'Py didn't have romance in them. Still... again, there could be a lot more done in this area. Thematically, there's a ton of stuff you could explore with interactive choices in a VN that could have different endings: politics and diplomacy, war strategy, self-discovery, moral dilemmas, pure action-adventure, revenge and conspiracy plots, etc. Where's our VN equivalent of Fullmetal Alchemist, or The Lord of the Rings?

I'd love to see a story about trying to manipulate a bunch of unruly lords into preparing for an invasion of your country. Or a hostage negotiation scenario, where you have to convince a trapped bank robber not to blow up the building. Or a criminal-mastermind scenario, where you have to plan and execute a daring theft (Ocean's Eleven), or plant obstacles to foil a theft (Home Alone). Or running a political campaign to try and impeach the President. Or a comedic story where participants have to race cross-country to win a million dollars. There's so much variety available in other media, I'm really surprised how little of it gets translated into VNs.

-Dizzy-
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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#43 Post by ebonyskies »

Very true. Movies, while still apt to fall into tropes, at least have a greater variety of them. XD And really, there's nothing particularly wrong with the more common themes for VNs, it's just lacking variety. If there were more different types, like some of your creative suggestions, dizzcity, (a Rat Race-esque VN would be hilarious XD) then I wouldn't mind the whole schoolgirl genre of games that much.

Really, it's just that the full potential of VNs isn't being anywhere close to utilized. Some breaking out of the box needs to happen. :)
Currently in the pre-production stages of creating the VN Visit to Nowhere, a moderately dark modern fairytale. In progress thread will be created once out of the pre-production phase. =D

Plotting: 25%
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Demo: 50%

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Re: What annoys you in visual novels?

#44 Post by Coatl »

I kind of agree with the statement that typically VN's tend to be more romance because the choose you significant other element seems to be the only thing that help branch out the stories into different scenarios. you never have scenarios based off where you want to go, who you want to hang out with or who you want to form an alliance with that often.

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