Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

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WillandBran
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Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#1 Post by WillandBran »

Hello
So... I'm supposed to convince a commitee that I can make my Visual Novel Project be profitable in the long run...
Thing is, I'm having a hard time finding info on most VN creators' income, let alone one that can pay their bills solely thanks to their VN output...
It really seems to me that the overwhelming majority of VN creator can only do it for the craft, during their free time, in their out-of-work hours
So I would love if some of y'all had any exemples of creators (Ideally, ones working in a one-man or close to one-man team environment) who managed to make it their full time job.

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#2 Post by parttimestorier »

While I'm not sure about the specifics of these people or groups offhand, a few prolific and successful English-speaking visual novel developers that come to mind are Hanako Games, Winter Wolves, Christine Love, and ebi-hime. I'm not sure if any of them have posted much publicly about their finances, but they all seem to have a steady output of games that do pretty well. You could probably also get a lot more useful information by looking around for visual novel creators on platforms like patreon and kickstarter. Successful kickstarter projects especially are likely to have updates with some details about what exactly they've been able to do with the money they got from their campaigns.

Also, while you're right that it seems like many English-speaking visual novel developers do it on the side of other jobs, there's a much bigger visual novel industry in Japan that you could do some research on. It's a lot of larger companies of course, but there are some smaller teams too that you might be able to use as examples. For instance, I believe both Higurashi and Umineko - which are both massively popular now and have had several adaptations and updated re-releases - were originally made by only a few people, with one guy doing all the art and writing himself.
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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#3 Post by WillandBran »

Thanks a lot, I'll check all of this.

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#4 Post by Chiagirl »

This is something I've wanted to know too, but most VN devs seem to be very secretive with exactly how much their games make. It's frustrating because this isn't something I've encountered with more mainstream professions; most people are happy to give you something like "My job is X, I've been in the industry for Y years, and I make about Z annually." I thought the cosplay community was very secretive with how much they charge for commissions, but trying to find VN revenue is honestly even harder. If you do come up with anything I'd love to take a look at it as well.

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#5 Post by _eternal »

HuniePop made a lot of money, although that's pretty different from a standard VN. Same with Monster Prom. Pretty sure Christine Love and Love in Space are full-time. Studio Élan makes super polished games that look like they were made by full-time staff, but they also have a sizeable team, so you never know.

Yeah, I haven't seen postmortems discussing revenue in the English VN industry like I have in the indie game industry. I don't think we have access to official numbers, but you can stalk people with the Steam Revenue Calculator or Game Stats. Remember to account for the split within the team and up to 50% split with the publisher (some indie game publishers take 50%, but maybe Sekai Project is more generous, I'm not sure).

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#6 Post by Aviala »

_eternal wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:24 pm Remember to account for the split within the team and up to 50% split with the publisher (some indie game publishers take 50%, but maybe Sekai Project is more generous, I'm not sure).
Just as a note, while some publishers may take 50%, I'd be vary about taking a deal like that. From what I've understood, a more standard cut is that 60-70% of the profits go to the developer (I've had a publishing deal that was in that range). If the publisher is taking 50% they'd better be doing some major marketing and supporting the development process in other ways too, otherwise it's a ripoff imo.

Also as a response to the original topic, I'm pretty close to living off of my visual novels, but not quite there. In my experience it's really hard to survive as an indie dev. I've had to take some side jobs etc to support myself, but my main job has been indie game development for a couple of years now. So I'd say that living off of Visual Novel development as an indie is definitely possible, but it's likely to only support a pretty modest lifestyle. Big commercial success is definitely possible (just look at Monster Prom or Dream Daddy) but it's very, very difficult.

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#7 Post by Morhighan »

I did from 2015-2018 and then hit major burnout. Also it was extremely frugal living. It's difficult and not something I'd recommend for the faint of heart.

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#8 Post by CodexMythica »

Morhighan wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:21 am I did from 2015-2018 and then hit major burnout. Also it was extremely frugal living. It's difficult and not something I'd recommend for the faint of heart.
I'd love more details about this Morhighan. How many games were you putting out, and on what kind of schedule? Where were you selling them? What genre of VNs were they? What caused the burnout?

Hope you don't mind all the questions!

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#9 Post by Morhighan »

CodexMythica wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:33 am
Morhighan wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:21 am I did from 2015-2018 and then hit major burnout. Also it was extremely frugal living. It's difficult and not something I'd recommend for the faint of heart.
I'd love more details about this Morhighan. How many games were you putting out, and on what kind of schedule? Where were you selling them? What genre of VNs were they? What caused the burnout?

Hope you don't mind all the questions!

Sure, I don't mind the questions. I'll try to answer as best I can. I apologize ahead of time if I veer into TMI territory.

In 2013 (when I was 21) I became debilitatingly sick with multiple health issues that had effectively decided to crescendo at the same time. Hindsight being 20/20, I can now recognize that these were issues I was living with for a long time, but they just became a regular part of my life after doctors brushed me off multiple times throughout my childhood and adolescence.

However, because the multiple issues were tricky to diagnose, I was unable to get approved for disability payments via SSI, and lacked the required work credits to get SSDI. I was unable to hold a regular job without my health failing within a month and having to quit, so in 2015 I turned to visual novels for survival. Being that I turned to my hobby in a time of desperation as my only source of income, I didn't have enough funds to pay for assets for my own projects. Rather than output my own games, I did a variety of freelance work for other people's projects.

You name it, I did it. Writing, editing, translation, bookkeeping, directing, Kickstarter management, social media management, programming, pixel art, Logos and GUI work, soundtracks. Basically everything but sprite art and background illustrations. Each freelance gig had a set payment amount. I'd usally get paid partial upfront and the rest when I was done.

As for schedule, I tended to work on whatever I could, whenever I could. I did a number of projects for Afterthought Studios, for instance. While the work load was different for each of those projects, I did a variety of tasks. Programming, kickstarter management, and getting the game onto Steam were the most common tasks for those projects. I also did some UI work, directing, and writing for a couple. It was pretty involving and I worked with other creators whenever I could find the time.

Releases of projects that I had a major hand in were:
December 2015
April 2016
January 2017 February 2017
October 2017
November 2017
April 2018.

Besides that I completed approximately 20-30 smaller commissions.

If I'd been able to sell my own games, perhaps I'd have been able to live more comfortably off of passive income from sales, but as mentioned before I wasn't able to afford assets. I did attempt to Kickstart a project but had the misfortune of launching right before 19 other visual novel kickstarters also launched. We tried a reduced amount for a second run at Kickstarter and that covered the sprite art. I gave the publishing rights over to the writer so they could recoup what I hadn't been able to pay them for. They were really gracious but after that event it became clear to me that I wasn't able to rely on Kickstarter if I couldn't pay out of pocket for assets. It also impacted the working relationship I had with my teammates negatively, though they were more than generous and gracious, I felt that I'd let them down and was hesitant to work on games again, even as a freelancer. It stung even more because I'd been working on that project off and on for 7 years. It was my baby and I'd messed up pretty badly. It was around this time in late 2018 that I finally hit a wall with burnout that had been building for about a year.

Outside of freelancing, my health was failing and I relied on extended couch-surfing while teetering on the edge of homelessness the entirety of 2015-2018. I kept trying to return to regular 9-5 work and failing. I kept overstaying my welcome with friends and family who took me in temporarily and unfortunately burned a lot of bridges. I was shifted about across 4 states and 12 different households. My health continually declined despite trying to treat my healthcare like a full time job, going from doctor to doctor. I had multiple surgeries and countless tests, scans, medications. I ended up in a psychiatric ward twice. Every time I moved to a new state or region I got to start over again from zero. New insurance, new doctors, new everything.

So in Autumn 2018 I "retired" from working on games. I had to be firm with everyone who approached me for a freelance gig. Some people repeatedly begged me to work with them but I had to refuse. I couldn't bear the pressure of disappointing anyone else. I'd moved in with my mother, who was estranged from the family since I was 6 years old. She lived in a new state where I didn't know anyone.

I was 26 and had gained 200lbs and was on the verge of dying due to undiagnosed and untreated pernicious anemia. As my nervous system atrophied I stopped being able to comprehend words when reading, I became face-blind and couldn't recognize my family, I couldn't play video games due to vertigo and visual issues, I couldn't digest food and was becoming unable to care for myself. My nerves were sending shocking sensations through my body constantly and I was in agony to the point of begging for medically assisted suicide.It was truly a low point in my life and looking back it's a wonder I'm alive now. It's scary how close I was to dying.

By chance, a blood test picked up on a certain antibody in my system and made it clear that I had pernicious anemia. By taking injections of B12 once daily I slowly started to regain my bodily functions. It's been two and a half years and I'm still not fully back to how I was at my healthiest, but I can read again most days and on especially good days I can even play video games. I even have my own apartment now thanks to the local public housing program.

Last August (2020) I did the first commission since I'd retired, a GUI. I also did a logo for a game jam, though I needed to take more time off to recover after those two commissions. I'm working on another Logo/GUI commission currently and it feels really good to be able to do so. I'm considering trying to make my own games again if I am successful at my disability hearing next month (Feb 2021), but even then it'll be a while off due to my low stamina and constant fatigue.

I'm sure you may be curious as to how much money I made from freelance visual novel work during the period mentioned above, so I'm going to break it down for you below. Looking back on some of the work I did, I admit that I underpriced myself for much of it. But I also recognize that a lot of the work wouldn't have been available if I'd priced my work properly.

2015 - 1500 USD
2016 - 1936 USD
2017 - 1889 USD
2018 - 299 USD
2019 - 0
2020 - 260 USD

Being that I live in the United States and that this was the majority of (or in some cases, the only) income I made those years, you can see that it's really not enough to survive off of. Perhaps in another country, but definitely not in the US. The four states I lived in had a great range for cost of living, and sometimes it changed regionally. I only scraped by thanks to the kindness of others and state programs. But even then it is still an incredibly frugal lifestyle. Definitely not a way of living I'd recommend to anyone, if they have other options.

Of course, if one isn't on the verge of death due to health issues, it's probably a bit more manageable to keep up a good pace. I've a friend who experienced homelessness for several years and now has their own place to live after working tirelessly at making indie games. Eventually the income from sales was enough to get them on their feet again. Neither of us are living glamorously by any means but through our unique circumstances we've both been unable to do the 9-5 corporate grind and found a way to survive despite that.

I still suspect that freelance game work is at high risk for burnout, though, regardless of how healthy you might be, so please take care. It may be more pertinent to start while still employed part time. If you ship enough projects perhaps the income from sales would be enough to live off of, but it's a risky gambit since sales can be so uncertain.

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#10 Post by CutlassBoardgame »

My two cents: Most of the income from these products come from having a free version that works as a marketing funnel towards a Patreon subscription. Where a playable, but feature incomplete game, can slowly add more content and patrons get new content released semi regularly and stay on as supporters.
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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#11 Post by CodexMythica »

Morhighan wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:13 pm
CodexMythica wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:33 am
Morhighan wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:21 am I did from 2015-2018 and then hit major burnout. Also it was extremely frugal living. It's difficult and not something I'd recommend for the faint of heart.
I'd love more details about this Morhighan. How many games were you putting out, and on what kind of schedule? Where were you selling them? What genre of VNs were they? What caused the burnout?

Hope you don't mind all the questions!

Sure, I don't mind the questions. I'll try to answer as best I can. I apologize ahead of time if I veer into TMI territory.
(I reduce the text in the last quote for space, but the full text is available above)

Thank you for sharing the details of your journey! It sounds like it was quite a difficult road for you. I really appreciate you sharing!

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#12 Post by CodexMythica »

CutlassBoardgame wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:22 am My two cents: Most of the income from these products come from having a free version that works as a marketing funnel towards a Patreon subscription. Where a playable, but feature incomplete game, can slowly add more content and patrons get new content released semi regularly and stay on as supporters.
This is an interesting route! Is this what you are doing?

What is a good approach to introduce players of the free game to consider the Patreon subscription? Can you mention a few examples that you believe are doing this method well, so I could study their business model?

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#13 Post by CutlassBoardgame »

CodexMythica wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:35 am
This is an interesting route! Is this what you are doing?

What is a good approach to introduce players of the free game to consider the Patreon subscription? Can you mention a few examples that you believe are doing this method well, so I could study their business model?
This is in fact what I'm doing. My game for example, is set over a series of days, and each update adds one new day. When you reach the end of the content for the game, there's a screen that says thanks for playing if you support us for 1$ you'll get new versions of the game a week early, (I have a lot of other content on there, including a webcomic in the same universe that 1$ gets you a week earlier also) There's also a link to the patreon in the main menu, and a link to the webcomic.
Now as for games that do this well as a business model....
They're all porn.
They introduce sexy characters early on with no content, and then be like support us on patreon for more content as its release, the next character we're working on is this, usually on a monthly cycle or whatever. There's a few creators that make serious bank doing this.


My plan personally is to more build a marketing funnel because the VN is based on a boardgame, and we release the final days version of the VN right as the game goes to kickstarter, and include an ad to kickstarter in the game.
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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#14 Post by CodexMythica »

CutlassBoardgame wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:26 am
This is in fact what I'm doing. My game for example, is set over a series of days, and each update adds one new day. When you reach the end of the content for the game, there's a screen that says thanks for playing if you support us for 1$ you'll get new versions of the game a week early, (I have a lot of other content on there, including a webcomic in the same universe that 1$ gets you a week earlier also) There's also a link to the patreon in the main menu, and a link to the webcomic.
Now as for games that do this well as a business model....
They're all porn.
They introduce sexy characters early on with no content, and then be like support us on patreon for more content as its release, the next character we're working on is this, usually on a monthly cycle or whatever. There's a few creators that make serious bank doing this.

My plan personally is to more build a marketing funnel because the VN is based on a boardgame, and we release the final days version of the VN right as the game goes to kickstarter, and include an ad to kickstarter in the game.
I have seen a lot of the erotic art going the way of Patreon; like erotic romance fiction, artist and cosplayers, and webtoons. So it seems a really viable route for erotic art creators. It also has a very justifiable reason to be behind a paywall, as a way to keep the 18+ content more private. I'd love to do something like that with BL content, but my husband asked me not to, so I am sticking to fantasy adventure VNs. I imagine non-erotic content can build an audience as well, given time and dedication.

BTW, I checked out your itch.io, and downloaded your visual novel to check out. :D I notice that you have a variety of game types that you have created. Has the Visual Novel been the one you have found success with, and that is why you are growing the Patreon with it? I didn't see your VN on Steam. Is there a reason you are not going the Steam route?

Thanks for replying. I have a ton of questions, hope you don't mind! LOL

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Re: Are there any creator that manages to live off of their Visual Novels output? If yes, who?

#15 Post by CutlassBoardgame »

CodexMythica wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:34 pm
BTW, I checked out your itch.io, and downloaded your visual novel to check out. :D I notice that you have a variety of game types that you have created. Has the Visual Novel been the one you have found success with, and that is why you are growing the Patreon with it?
My Patreon is for the Winning Love by Daylight Webcomic, and Visual Novel, but also I post a lot of PnP boardgames on there, same as my Itch.io. The visual novel has been very successful in comparison, but that's largely due to itch.io's lack of physical game presence.

CodexMythica wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:34 pm I didn't see your VN on Steam. Is there a reason you are not going the Steam route?
Since January 7th I've been trying to get a version onto steam, it's been a white-kunckle experience. My current estimate is the 20th of Feb it'll be up.

CodexMythica wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:34 pm Thanks for replying. I have a ton of questions, hope you don't mind! LOL
I don't mind, happy to be completely transparent about my career.
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