How can I build a VN development team?

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aNewVirgin
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How can I build a VN development team?

#1 Post by aNewVirgin »

I am currently writing the script on a project I prefer not to reveal for now. While it has seen some progress, there is no plan or protocol about attracting potential teammates that I can follow and it worries me, because I won't know what to do after I finish my story. I joined a few Discord servers that are relevant to the core concept of the game and found some pretty decent artists. What should I do in order to create interest in the project? Should I DM artists one by one and what should I tell them to keep them interested? Should I publicly discuss the idea and if yes then how should I act? Or it's better to just forget about all that and only focus on finishing the script? (I actually do want to work on it first, but still hate not having any guidelines about creating interest and attracting potential teammates)

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#2 Post by Mutive »

A first question might be to ask what a potential teammate gets from working on your project. Your ability to attract teammates is a LOT higher if you offer financial compensation upfront than it is if you offer a percentage on sales or credit.

(Think of it this way. If you offer someone their going rate for a project, it almost doesn't matter whether they think your project is cool or boring - it's just another job for them. So the selling point is really, "I'm paying you a living wage in exchange for work." vs. "I'm convincing you that my project is super cool and interesting!"

But if it's a % of a project, you have to give some sense to these potential collaborators that however much the project makes will be worth their while. And if all you can offer is credit, you need to make the project sound interesting/fun enough that someone would do it just for the fun of it. These are three VERY different hurdles.)

I'd also be aware of the scope of the project (what, precisely, do you want the collaborator to do?), the timelines, any past work you've done (and stats on how successful it's been), a blurb that makes it sound exciting, etc.
Enjoy Eidolon, my free to play game at: https://mutive.itch.io/eidolon, Minion! at: https://mutive.itch.io/minion or Epilogue at: https://mutive.itch.io/epilogue

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#3 Post by aNewVirgin »

Well, I can't offer any financial support. The second option is left (convincing the potential teammates that the game is interesting). I am making a visual novel for the first time, it's probably going to be movie length (2-3 hours). An important thing to note here is that I am looking for teammates in a community where most have probably not heard of VNs. Honestly I just wanna know if I should DM artists whose art I like or maybe instead discuss it publicly and attract some people and then filter out those with useful skills. And obviously, how to make them passionate and excited about the game so they agree to help me out.

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#4 Post by fleet »

aNewVirgin wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:51 pm ...I am making a visual novel for the first time, it's probably going to be movie length (2-3 hours). ...
This is just my opinion; do what you think is best.
I recommend you start MUCH smaller on your first project (maybe something 15 minutes long), using creative commons assets. Perhaps this could be the first chapter of your longer original idea. Doing what I suggest will demonstrate to prospective collaborators what your are capable of, and show that you can complete a project.
Some of my visual novels are at http://www.the-new-lagoon.com. They are NSFW
Poorly done hand-drawn art is still poorly done art. Be a Poser (or better yet, use DAZ Studio 3D) - dare to be different.

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#5 Post by GammaBreak »

This is actually something I have to face as well, and would be interested in hearing people's opinions. I've financed a pretty high-quality free game to begin with, and I obviously cannot support a much larger project out of my own pocket without earning that back. I'm actually hoping to not personally deal with any money. Mostly for income/tax reasons, but in all honesty, I work a full time job that requires my total focus. I'd rather any money go to the people who put their time and passion into this being their source of income, rather than me taking any of it and having to split my commitments and end up doing shoddy work.

So can it be normal for a member of the team to solely handle the budget/fundraising? It's something I have zero experience with, another reason why I don't really want to deal with it. Basically, my role would be direction and some writing.

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#6 Post by aNewVirgin »

GammaBreak wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:47 pm This is actually something I have to face as well, and would be interested in hearing people's opinions. I've financed a pretty high-quality free game to begin with, and I obviously cannot support a much larger project out of my own pocket without earning that back. I'm actually hoping to not personally deal with any money. Mostly for income/tax reasons, but in all honesty, I work a full time job that requires my total focus. I'd rather any money go to the people who put their time and passion into this being their source of income, rather than me taking any of it and having to split my commitments and end up doing shoddy work.

So can it be normal for a member of the team to solely handle the budget/fundraising? It's something I have zero experience with, another reason why I don't really want to deal with it. Basically, my role would be direction and some writing.
I understand very well why you don't want to deal with money. The question is: how can I generate interest in my project basically so people will want to work with me?

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#7 Post by GammaBreak »

aNewVirgin wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:25 am I understand very well why you don't want to deal with money. The question is: how can I generate interest in my project basically so people will want to work with me?
Personally, I would get as much organization done ahead of time as possible.

Know how your story starts, progresses, and ends, and everything in between outlined, at least in a form that it could be worked on. It may very well change, but it's easier to attract someone to your project if you can offer them the full picture as opposed to something vague which may get stuck before it even gets started.

Regarding the art front, pick out a couple artists ahead of time that you'd like to hire. Get pricing information from them. It doesn't have to be completely representative, but in general find out what the cost of your sprites will be, the expressions/poses, the backgrounds, etc. Just to get a rough estimate. And also try to get a tentative idea of what their schedule might be. Once you know how much it will cost to hire an artist's services, that's something you can plan for. Again, refer to my point above about having an outline/plan. An artist won't be very interested if you just say "hey, I want you to work on my game, dunno what I need yet." They're going to want to hear "I'd like for you do the art for my game. I will need X amount of sprites, Y amount of backgrounds, and these variations".

In summary, your organization is likely going to be your best bet. If you have a fleshed out idea, you can promote/sell it just about anywhere. It may not all come together right away, but the more you have prepped and ready to go, to quicker you can just move right into production once the opportunity arises.

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#8 Post by Elsa Kisiel »

I would finish the script first, so you know exactly how much work will have to be done.

If you choose to contact artists yourself, make sure :
-To be polite (And to be patient)
-To be as clear and brief as possible when it comes to explaining your project.
-To tell them about the scope of the work they will have to do and to tell them if you have deadlines
-To tell them if it's a commercial project looking for partners (with a % ) or a free project (for fun)
-If it's a commercial project looking for partners, tell them what make you confident that this project will be profitable, how you intend to monetize it.

Here's a few other ways to easily find VN artists when you don't have budget :
-The recruitment corner, here, on LemmaSoft, already separated between paid job/ commercial project looking for partners (with a % ) / free project looking for partners
-Creative common assets or assets generators
Illustrator • Commission open: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=59346 • My portfolio: https://elsakisiel.artstation.com/

Take a cup of tea and let yourself be charmed by my stories and my drawings. Here, everything is bewitched and bewitching!

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#9 Post by Mutive »

fleet wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:34 pm
This is just my opinion; do what you think is best.
I recommend you start MUCH smaller on your first project (maybe something 15 minutes long), using creative commons assets. Perhaps this could be the first chapter of your longer original idea. Doing what I suggest will demonstrate to prospective collaborators what your are capable of, and show that you can complete a project.
I'd recommend this approach as well.

There are typically FAR more writers looking for artists to collaborate with than the opposite. So artists can choose to be picky (esp. for free projects), while writers...probably can't. This is all the more true when you consider that no one loves your work as much as you do. (I suspect that most artists would rather work on *their* dream project than someone else's.)

This equation changes somewhat if you already have a track record (either of publishing really cool VNs or being paid to publish fiction). But even then it's *hard*. (And if you had that track record...why not monetize that success?)

If you're determined to find a collaborator, I'd recommend being very specific on what you want from them. How many characters? How many poses/outfits/expressions? Should they do backgrounds as well? How much would this cost if you were purchasing it at cost? Can you scale down some of these assets to make it more appealing to a potential collaborator? (e.g. drawing 4 characters is easier than 40, so you're more likely to find someone willing to draw a few characters than a LOT of them.) Are there cc assets you can substitute in certain circumstances? (e.g. backgrounds)

Also, what can you offer as far as credit goes?

I'm not an artist, but I'm imagining that I'd be *far* more interested in collaborating with someone (for no pay) if they, say, had published a game already that had 10k downloads than one with 20 (or someone who'd never published a game). Or that they'd sold short stories to major markets, had a following of 20K on Wattpad, etc. Any past success makes it more likely that this current project will be a success.
Enjoy Eidolon, my free to play game at: https://mutive.itch.io/eidolon, Minion! at: https://mutive.itch.io/minion or Epilogue at: https://mutive.itch.io/epilogue

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#10 Post by aNewVirgin »

Mutive wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:00 pm
fleet wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:34 pm
This is just my opinion; do what you think is best.
I recommend you start MUCH smaller on your first project (maybe something 15 minutes long), using creative commons assets. Perhaps this could be the first chapter of your longer original idea. Doing what I suggest will demonstrate to prospective collaborators what your are capable of, and show that you can complete a project.
I'd recommend this approach as well.

There are typically FAR more writers looking for artists to collaborate with than the opposite. So artists can choose to be picky (esp. for free projects), while writers...probably can't. This is all the more true when you consider that no one loves your work as much as you do. (I suspect that most artists would rather work on *their* dream project than someone else's.)

This equation changes somewhat if you already have a track record (either of publishing really cool VNs or being paid to publish fiction). But even then it's *hard*. (And if you had that track record...why not monetize that success?)

If you're determined to find a collaborator, I'd recommend being very specific on what you want from them. How many characters? How many poses/outfits/expressions? Should they do backgrounds as well? How much would this cost if you were purchasing it at cost? Can you scale down some of these assets to make it more appealing to a potential collaborator? (e.g. drawing 4 characters is easier than 40, so you're more likely to find someone willing to draw a few characters than a LOT of them.) Are there cc assets you can substitute in certain circumstances? (e.g. backgrounds)

Also, what can you offer as far as credit goes?

I'm not an artist, but I'm imagining that I'd be *far* more interested in collaborating with someone (for no pay) if they, say, had published a game already that had 10k downloads than one with 20 (or someone who'd never published a game). Or that they'd sold short stories to major markets, had a following of 20K on Wattpad, etc. Any past success makes it more likely that this current project will be a success.
I think I have to break the situation down to you specifically. I'm searching for artists and enthusiasts in a community/fandom where most have probably not heard of or care about VNs. When the script is finished, they will hopefully like it, but the concept of VNs is somewhat foreign for them. How can I create interest within that fandom in the idea of having a VN that caters to their preferences?
The novel I have in mind will be about countryballs and I am looking for teammates in Polandball communities. If you didn't know them before, look them up.

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#11 Post by Mutive »

aNewVirgin wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:41 pm
I think I have to break the situation down to you specifically. I'm searching for artists and enthusiasts in a community/fandom where most have probably not heard of or care about VNs. When the script is finished, they will hopefully like it, but the concept of VNs is somewhat foreign for them. How can I create interest within that fandom in the idea of having a VN that caters to their preferences?
The novel I have in mind will be about countryballs and I am looking for teammates in Polandball communities. If you didn't know them before, look them up.
I think in this case, you have a better shot just because if people are *already* doing work for free because they love the source, they're more inclined to continue to do work for free.

I'd probably approach with something like, "Hi, I'm X. I'm currently Y way through a video game type called a visual novel. <<Insert short summary about VN that seems cool enough that someone might care.>>

I'm looking for an artist and have admired your artwork for <<x, y and z reason>>. I was wondering whether you might consider collaborating with me on a free to play game set in <<amazingly awesome shared universe>>. I anticipate the VN requiring <<insert requirements - such, as # of characters, backgrounds, etc.>>

<<insert anything you've done for the fan community that's relevant enough that an artist might care - e.g. you've written fan fiction that's been read 20k times or won fan of the year award. If you don't have anything to add, leave blank.>>

Thank you for your time!"
Enjoy Eidolon, my free to play game at: https://mutive.itch.io/eidolon, Minion! at: https://mutive.itch.io/minion or Epilogue at: https://mutive.itch.io/epilogue

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#12 Post by aNewVirgin »

Mutive wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:28 pm
aNewVirgin wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:41 pm
I think I have to break the situation down to you specifically. I'm searching for artists and enthusiasts in a community/fandom where most have probably not heard of or care about VNs. When the script is finished, they will hopefully like it, but the concept of VNs is somewhat foreign for them. How can I create interest within that fandom in the idea of having a VN that caters to their preferences?
The novel I have in mind will be about countryballs and I am looking for teammates in Polandball communities. If you didn't know them before, look them up.
I think in this case, you have a better shot just because if people are *already* doing work for free because they love the source, they're more inclined to continue to do work for free.

I'd probably approach with something like, "Hi, I'm X. I'm currently Y way through a video game type called a visual novel. <<Insert short summary about VN that seems cool enough that someone might care.>>

I'm looking for an artist and have admired your artwork for <<x, y and z reason>>. I was wondering whether you might consider collaborating with me on a free to play game set in <<amazingly awesome shared universe>>. I anticipate the VN requiring <<insert requirements - such, as # of characters, backgrounds, etc.>>

<<insert anything you've done for the fan community that's relevant enough that an artist might care - e.g. you've written fan fiction that's been read 20k times or won fan of the year award. If you don't have anything to add, leave blank.>>

Thank you for your time!"
Another question: should I try to discuss the idea of a VN publicly or DM specific individuals (like artists) and tell them about my game? (after finishing the script of course, since a fleshed out concept has a better chance of attracting collaborators from what I have been told on this topic so far).

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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#13 Post by Mutive »

I think either works. If there's a forum for your fandom where it would make sense to discuss the game (and might gain interest), it doesn't hurt.

With that said, at least in my experience, people are more inclined to respond to DMs because they're personal. (It feels like you're not just looking for a generic artist - you're looking for *them*.)
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Re: How can I build a VN development team?

#14 Post by Chiagirl »

If you are unwilling or unable to pay upfront for work you're going to have a much harder time. Getting people to work under a revenue share model is difficult as X% of $0 is still $0, and people want to be fairly compensated for their time and effort even if your game flops or never gets completed. The best way to work around this is to get everything you can possibly do by yourself done before you even think of recruiting. Finish the script, code it into the engine without the art (or using placeholder art), and show off everything you have done in your recruitment efforts so potential partners can see the game has a good chance of getting completed and won't be stuck in the idea stage forever.

Once your script is finished it also makes it easier on you as you'll know exactly how many character sprites you'll need, how many changes of expressions & outfits they should have, the number of CGs you want, etc. You can even turn the finished script into a narrative adventure (think "choose your own adventure" books with no artwork) and sell that to raise money to hire artist, coders, etc. or at least have something to show to try making a Kickstarter. You could also always make your story interactive fiction on something like twine rather than a full fledged visual novel. This will show that you have the ability to complete a game, and if it becomes popular enough you may get more people willing to work with you.

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