using emotions as dialogue choices?

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Koveras
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Re: using emotions as dialogue choices?

#16 Post by Koveras » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:41 am

JinzouTamashii wrote:Fahrenheit! I love Fahrenheit! That is GREAT game and so is Ico and my poor PS2 doesn't work anymore. Don't you push arrow directions to select choices?
I played it on the PC, so I just used the mouse... Although I did play it with a USB controller once, and IIRC you have to move the control sticks to select options. And in most cases, you must select it before a certain timeout, otherwise the game randomly selects an option for you...
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Re: using emotions as dialogue choices?

#17 Post by rioka » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:41 am

Hey, I was thinking about something like this earlier this year! It would be interesting to see your take on it.

@ Koveras
Not necessarily. You can turn a situation in which as a player, if you select one emotion, the NPC can reply by saying they don't get what you're trying to "say". It's a standard trick in RPGs where if you select one choice, they steer you back to the only choice you can select to continue the story.

Of course, I personally think it's better to get a reaction for each emotional choice but as you say, it will be a bit daunting keeping track of each progression. Though, if you think about it, you can batch everything into a point system and depending on how well you react to the person, they can swing to being friends or being enemies. Based on your current relationship points with the person, conversations can vary to enemy dialogue, casual/acquaintance dialogue, or friendly dialogue. Let's say...

enemies <= -30
acquantance >= -29 && <=29
friends >= 30 && <=70
crush >=71 && <=110
love >= 111

girl-npc-relationship-points = 44

if girl-npc-relationship-points <= -30
"Don't talk to me. I hate your guts!"
choice 1
choice 2
etc etc
else if girl-npc-relationship-points >= -29 && <=29
"Oh, hello. Can I help you?"
choice 1
choice 2
etc etc
else if girl-npc-relationship-points >= 30 && <=70
"Hey there! I'm throwing a party later this week - want to come?"
choice 1
choice 2
etc etc
else if etc. etc

(Yeah, yeah, not proper coding but you get the idea.)

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Re: using emotions as dialogue choices?

#18 Post by JinzouTamashii » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:09 pm

I have a feeling that Bliss Stage is very similar in idea to this:
Though, if you think about it, you can batch everything into a point system and depending on how well you react to the person, they can swing to being friends or being enemies. Based on your current relationship points with the person, conversations can vary to enemy dialogue, casual/acquaintance dialogue, or friendly dialogue.
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Re: using emotions as dialogue choices?

#19 Post by Koveras » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:16 pm

rioka wrote:@ Koveras
Not necessarily. You can turn a situation in which as a player, if you select one emotion, the NPC can reply by saying they don't get what you're trying to "say". It's a standard trick in RPGs where if you select one choice, they steer you back to the only choice you can select to continue the story.
That trick works but it ruins the atmosphere. If the NPC starts spouting the standard phrases, it makes the player immediately revoke their suspension of disbelief, which OK in graphic RPGs, I guess, but fatal in VNs IMO...
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Re: using emotions as dialogue choices?

#20 Post by Tsundere Lightning » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:26 pm

JinzouTamashii wrote:I have a feeling that Bliss Stage is very similar in idea to this:
Though, if you think about it, you can batch everything into a point system and depending on how well you react to the person, they can swing to being friends or being enemies. Based on your current relationship points with the person, conversations can vary to enemy dialogue, casual/acquaintance dialogue, or friendly dialogue.
I'll answer this.

On the one hand, yes, this point system is how Bliss Stage works, kind of. On the other, raising the Intimacy of a Relationship up to Intimacy 4 can be a matter of kissing someone, walking in on them in the shower, or breaking their nose. Most of the game checks a character's past actions with who they're interacting with in the context of current Intimacy and Trust to determine what scene plays.

Example: If A punched B in the face before, but A currently has 3 out of 5 Trust with B, then a scene might play where A offers to let B punch him out in response to A's latest fuck-up. If A x B's trust is very low, on the other hand, B will have an argument with A over that fuck-up instead.

This is however a tangent, unless I miss my guess.
I THINK the OP was talking about the only decision you make about dialog being the tone of voice and emotions expressed through it.

"Yes, sir, Captain, sir!" as opposed to "Yes, sir... Captain, Sir." or "Yessir, Cap'n sir!"

Is this correct?
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Re: using emotions as dialogue choices?

#21 Post by rioka » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:39 pm

Koveras wrote:
rioka wrote:@ Koveras
Not necessarily. You can turn a situation in which as a player, if you select one emotion, the NPC can reply by saying they don't get what you're trying to "say". It's a standard trick in RPGs where if you select one choice, they steer you back to the only choice you can select to continue the story.
That trick works but it ruins the atmosphere. If the NPC starts spouting the standard phrases, it makes the player immediately revoke their suspension of disbelief, which OK in graphic RPGs, I guess, but fatal in VNs IMO...
Regarding my example, it is not uncommon for people to remain solidly on one stance that they will not accept any other choice but their own. They call those type of people stubborn and obstinate.

There's only so much you can do in a VN. Even if you can try to think of all possible scenarios and actions that a player may wish to do and actually code and script it into a game, you will never actually accomplish all possibilities because in the end, it is still a game. It all comes down to what are reasonable exchanges, interactions, and scenarios. (It also boils down to what is a reasonable development time and what you wish to accomplish in your game that's something else)

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