How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

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XBDC36
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How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#1 Post by XBDC36 »

I really do appreciate story writing volunteers, especially the ones that I'm working with. They do a good job and everything, really, and I respect that they have lives and all, but I've noticed (and I'm afraid) that at the pace we're going, our project is going to take years, a lot more years than should be necessary for something like this and I'm pretty sure that nobody wants that. I've asked them loads of times if they're still interested because I figured that if they're not participating a lot that maybe they weren't into making the game anymore, but they've told that they are and are having fun. We have meetings with the entire team every week, and more often than not they're too busy to even show up, and when progress is made, it's only a few lines that were added. We started working on the story around July (with some minor complications so maybe a better timeline would be since late October early November) and we only have 20-ish pages for the first character(which sounds like a lot, but in terms of story I don't think that's even a quarter) and we've got 4 characters total in the game. Maybe I'm too nice by not having a lot of expectations since I go by the idea that "any progress is good progress, no matter how small" but with how things have been going that sentiment is starting to shake a little bit.

I guess what I'm asking is what's a kind way to get my volunteers to put a bit more time into this project? I've tried suggesting the idea to one of them (before I got a second writer to work with them) that they should try to write a paragraph's worth of lines a day, and if they don't manage to do that, then the next day they'll have to write two and so on. They agreed to this, but haven't really been following through with it. My second writer is kind of dealing with something emotionally traumatic that happened in their lives, so I've let them take a break for the time being. And as much as I would like to start paying them, I'm too young to be able to do such a thing, and I'm pretty sure my parents (no matter what age I am) wouldn't appreciate sending money to random strangers on the internet.

I've thought about writing something along the lines of, "I'm sorry _____, but if I don't start seeing some more progress from you, I'll have to let you go" but I don't have the guts to do that, especially considering that they've told me that they're enjoying themselves and the work that they've turned in so far (even if it is super small) is good.

TLDR: I like my writing volunteers but progress is too slow, afraid game is going to take too many years than is necessary to make and want to find a kind way to tell them to dedicate more time to the project
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#2 Post by Alianora_La_Canta »

The tricky part here is that they are volunteers. If no concrete written expectations were set at the very beginning, adjusting to an expectation increase is difficult - and risks getting the response of voluntary effort being withdrawn. This applies even if they want to help you and like the concept of helping you write this specific visual novel.

If you did set concrete written expectations, feel free to remind everyone what they agreed to do. Ideally, break it down into steps - give them a realistic idea of when you now want the visual novel released and when writing needs to be done to hit that target (remember to give yourself time to have volunteer testers check everything, and rewrite time if something turns out awkward/non-functional during testing). Find out how much time each person realistically has to write (it may be less than you think) and how fast they write when motivated and prepared (it may be slower than you think). I recommend mentally halving any estimates given because people often forget to take into account that life happens. If it means splitting your writing tasks into (say) 3 sentences per person per segment, by all means do so - you can always increase your volunteer count or encourage volunteers with more time on a particular week to send you a piece of writing early so they can have the fun of deciding what's said in the next bit. Give them an idea of how much writing you want by next meeting, and require that they either show up to the meeting with the writing or send it to you (not a different volunteer) (however much or little) in advance (that way, even if life clashes, you still have the writing).

If no such expectations were set... ...draw up a plan yourself about how you are going to separate tasks to get everything released. When you've made the decisions, gather everyone together and resolve to start afresh with the new objectives.

Either way, check what obstacles there may be to them writing. If they don't feel they have enough information, give it to them (and note you'll probably have to increase the amount of information for the rest of the project in that case). If they cite anything else that's project-related, help solve the problem. Provide a graceful way to back out for anyone who needs/wishes to use it (and be prepared for the possibility of having to recruit entirely new volunteer writers). If necessary, also mention that you understand the project has had various issues for everyone involved, but that you'd like to get the visual novel released by [your preferred realistic release date], and you need their help to manage it.

Only assign new "segments" of writing to people who show up at the meetings with delivered writing or those who send in writing and ask for the next "segment" - this will make it easier for you to keep track of what's being done, and make it easier to redistribute writing tasks if needed. It's also easy for your volunteers to track: if they're not being given new stuff to write, you must be waiting on the previous section.

Project management is tricky, and doing a visual novel together will require you to do the project management. You are, after all, the only one who fully knows your vision and intent. Best wishes in getting this visual novel project back onto the road!

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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#3 Post by XBDC36 »

Alianora_La_Canta wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:06 am The tricky part here is that they are volunteers. If no concrete written expectations were set at the very beginning, adjusting to an expectation increase is difficult - and risks getting the response of voluntary effort being withdrawn. This applies even if they want to help you and like the concept of helping you write this specific visual novel.

If you did set concrete written expectations, feel free to remind everyone what they agreed to do. Ideally, break it down into steps - give them a realistic idea of when you now want the visual novel released and when writing needs to be done to hit that target (remember to give yourself time to have volunteer testers check everything, and rewrite time if something turns out awkward/non-functional during testing). Find out how much time each person realistically has to write (it may be less than you think) and how fast they write when motivated and prepared (it may be slower than you think). I recommend mentally halving any estimates given because people often forget to take into account that life happens. If it means splitting your writing tasks into (say) 3 sentences per person per segment, by all means do so - you can always increase your volunteer count or encourage volunteers with more time on a particular week to send you a piece of writing early so they can have the fun of deciding what's said in the next bit. Give them an idea of how much writing you want by next meeting, and require that they either show up to the meeting with the writing or send it to you (not a different volunteer) (however much or little) in advance (that way, even if life clashes, you still have the writing).

If no such expectations were set... ...draw up a plan yourself about how you are going to separate tasks to get everything released. When you've made the decisions, gather everyone together and resolve to start afresh with the new objectives.

Either way, check what obstacles there may be to them writing. If they don't feel they have enough information, give it to them (and note you'll probably have to increase the amount of information for the rest of the project in that case). If they cite anything else that's project-related, help solve the problem. Provide a graceful way to back out for anyone who needs/wishes to use it (and be prepared for the possibility of having to recruit entirely new volunteer writers). If necessary, also mention that you understand the project has had various issues for everyone involved, but that you'd like to get the visual novel released by [your preferred realistic release date], and you need their help to manage it.

Only assign new "segments" of writing to people who show up at the meetings with delivered writing or those who send in writing and ask for the next "segment" - this will make it easier for you to keep track of what's being done, and make it easier to redistribute writing tasks if needed. It's also easy for your volunteers to track: if they're not being given new stuff to write, you must be waiting on the previous section.

Project management is tricky, and doing a visual novel together will require you to do the project management. You are, after all, the only one who fully knows your vision and intent. Best wishes in getting this visual novel project back onto the road!
Thanks for your answer, I'll admit I had to read it over twice to get what you were saying (my English isn't the best ^^;) but I got it in the end! A question that I have is what should I do if we all agree to the plan, but even with reminders(which I believe I provide pretty regularly, a day before our weekly meetings and an hour before the meeting should start and ask for a written progress report when they don't show up), nothing that is according to the plan gets done? Like I said, that has happened with one of the writers that I have already.

I'm not sure if this is important to mention, but I try to accommodate everyone to be as comfortable as possible, but I think that's resulted in a sort of splitting between everyone. Meetings for everyone is usually held on one day, the first writer has another meeting time (which I asked if there was a better one since they hardly showed up to the original day) and the second writer prefers to talk with just me alone in a private chat (at any time I guess, but like I said, they're going through something and I don't have the heart to pester them with something like this). They tell me that they've been writing as well, but never gives me any of their work even with how many times I've asked and reassured them that they shouldn't be shy if they think it's unpolished, considering that I'm the editor and will fix any wrong sentences or the like.

I have split the work between the two which is why we have a second writer, otherwise it was only supposed to be one that would write all four characters. And since it's a fanmade otome based on an existing game, I let them pick their favorites so they wouldn't lose motivation. Yet for one writer, there's only a few pages worth of lines and for another I can't even track progress because they won't give me their work. All three of us have come together to offer ideas for the routes as well; the file we made is easily accessible to everyone so if an idea spawns out of nowhere, they can write it down, so it's not like they don't have an idea of what to write. I will admit though, the stories of the routes can be a bit unpolished the further you go considering that we wanted our story to be meta and all tied to our secret character so it gets a bit harder to write the further you go since the secret character route is the least developed and everything is tied to them so we feel like we need to finish everyone else's routes first before we can finish his(feel free to tell me I'm wrong on that one). The second writer runs his ideas by me whenever I ask, so that's something I guess. I don't know :oops:
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#4 Post by Alianora_La_Canta »

If you all agree to the plan, you should only need to do one reminder at most (probably the day before), and even this is optional provided that everyone has the meeting information. That reminder should be quick and to the point (i.e. not like my forum posts ;) ).

It doesn't sound like you have those written expectations set up, so organise a meeting to set them (meeting with people separately, as you describe, also works. Just make sure you tell both writers the same expectations - along with the other things I mentioned last post - and that both have it all in writing).

Don't bother asking for the progress report from no-shows.

On the system I propose, the "progress report" is the writing itself. Once you've set out the fresh expectation for them to bring writing to each meeting or send in advance, you can treat any week that passes without any of these things as if that person did nothing (even if you've seen screenshots indicating otherwise. You can't work with what you don't have). Send a quick friendly reminder the first time, then assume they're not in a position to write unless you get actual writing from them. No need to formally tell them they're off the novel (politely or otherwise), just allocate work to writers who actually write, unless/until the non-writers start sending you stuff again. At that point, you can re-add them (this is helpful for the writer who you say has other stuff to deal with at the same time). If you run out of writing segments to give out, give someone else the previously-allocated segment. Obviously, credit everyone for any work they actually gave you.

From the description you gave me, it's also possible that the writers prefer idea generation to, well, writing. That might be useful to take into account, since these are quite different areas of visual novel work. (Proofreading is a distinct skill from either - it's standard for the first draft to be "a bit rough").

Deciding route order matters only to the extent that it affects how you plan the creative process. If you've any routes where you know what needs to happen next, I'd have that be the next part you do. You can always check the novel's logic and sort out any inconsistencies later.

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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#5 Post by XBDC36 »

Alianora_La_Canta wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:41 pm If you all agree to the plan, you should only need to do one reminder at most (probably the day before), and even this is optional provided that everyone has the meeting information. That reminder should be quick and to the point (i.e. not like my forum posts ;) ).

It doesn't sound like you have those written expectations set up, so organise a meeting to set them (meeting with people separately, as you describe, also works. Just make sure you tell both writers the same expectations - along with the other things I mentioned last post - and that both have it all in writing).

Don't bother asking for the progress report from no-shows.

On the system I propose, the "progress report" is the writing itself. Once you've set out the fresh expectation for them to bring writing to each meeting or send in advance, you can treat any week that passes without any of these things as if that person did nothing (even if you've seen screenshots indicating otherwise. You can't work with what you don't have). Send a quick friendly reminder the first time, then assume they're not in a position to write unless you get actual writing from them. No need to formally tell them they're off the novel (politely or otherwise), just allocate work to writers who actually write, unless/until the non-writers start sending you stuff again. At that point, you can re-add them (this is helpful for the writer who you say has other stuff to deal with at the same time). If you run out of writing segments to give out, give someone else the previously-allocated segment. Obviously, credit everyone for any work they actually gave you.

From the description you gave me, it's also possible that the writers prefer idea generation to, well, writing. That might be useful to take into account, since these are quite different areas of visual novel work. (Proofreading is a distinct skill from either - it's standard for the first draft to be "a bit rough").

Deciding route order matters only to the extent that it affects how you plan the creative process. If you've any routes where you know what needs to happen next, I'd have that be the next part you do. You can always check the novel's logic and sort out any inconsistencies later.
"From the description you gave me, it's also possible that the writers prefer idea generation to, well, writing. That might be useful to take into account, since these are quite different areas of visual novel work."

That's a fair assumption and likely true, but if that's the case, how can I get them to actually write down their ideas, rather than just having them generate lots of ideas without any progress being made and actually put them down on paper and put them into the story?
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#6 Post by Elsa Kisiel »

Honestly, I don't think there is an easy solution. Alianora-La-Canta gave very good advice about how to manage the project and the team. If you already put these advices in practice, I'm afraid there is little more you can do. It's a fan-project and they are volunteers. If they don't have the time/motivation/energy to work on the project right now, or if they prefer talking about the project than actually writing for it, well... It's their right.

Of course, you can try to recruit more volunteers, but there are no guarantee that they will work faster or be more available. (And the more people, the more difficult it becomes to manage a project) You could also write it yourself, perhaps ?
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#7 Post by tinysamm »

Volunteer work can definitely experience slowdown when things like this come up, but if the project is entirely being done for fun with no real deadline involved, it'll be difficult to make a case to your volunteers that they need to produce more work. A project taking a long time to complete can definitely be a negative if you want to see it in the hands of players by the end of the year, but one thing that might be slowing that progress is a sense that putting in a lot of work isn't going to lead to a significant dent in the full workload as a whole.

If you had a milestone that was closer, a la "Chapter 1" being finished for all 4 characters and a demo being released as part of that, it could help with motivation in a big way. Unless you're a project planner, it can be hard to see incremental progress as significant. Hopefully you'll be able to find a way forward for everyone involved ^^
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#8 Post by Imperf3kt »

It doesn't hurt to find out what's causing the slowdown. It could be burn out, loss of interest, general unpreparedness (amateur volunteers usually don't realise the amount of work actually involved), changed family circumstances, or simply something else may have their attention.

Working that out can help you address the issue more accurately.
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#9 Post by XBDC36 »

Elsa Kisiel wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:56 pm Honestly, I don't think there is an easy solution. Alianora-La-Canta gave very good advice about how to manage the project and the team. If you already put these advices in practice, I'm afraid there is little more you can do. It's a fan-project and they are volunteers. If they don't have the time/motivation/energy to work on the project right now, or if they prefer talking about the project than actually writing for it, well... It's their right.

Of course, you can try to recruit more volunteers, but there are no guarantee that they will work faster or be more available. (And the more people, the more difficult it becomes to manage a project) You could also write it yourself, perhaps ?
Sad, but true.

I'd write it myself if I knew how ^^; oftentimes when I suggest a possible idea, one of them would go "Eeeh, this character would react this way instead" and I'd rather not have the fandom crucify me for improper characterization XD
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#10 Post by XBDC36 »

tinysamm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:05 pm A project taking a long time to complete can definitely be a negative if you want to see it in the hands of players by the end of the year, but one thing that might be slowing that progress is a sense that putting in a lot of work isn't going to lead to a significant dent in the full workload as a whole.
That's a very good point that I think I'm starting to get here. With little to no direction, people might get the feeling that even if they do a lot of work, the progress is too little and so they might be feeling too overwhelmed. I get that way too sometimes now that I think about it, so setting a deadline could really help with that!
tinysamm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:05 pm If you had a milestone that was closer, a la "Chapter 1" being finished for all 4 characters and a demo being released as part of that, it could help with motivation in a big way. Unless you're a project planner, it can be hard to see incremental progress as significant. Hopefully you'll be able to find a way forward for everyone involved ^^
Yup, definitely not a project planner (it's the first time I've done something like this outside of school I guess and even then at least you've got a teacher or something to help you in case you need it) but I'm trying XD
Thanks for what you said, I feel a little bit better about all of this now! :)
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#11 Post by XBDC36 »

Imperf3kt wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:59 pm Working that out can help you address the issue more accurately.
Probably a dumb question, but in what way?
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#12 Post by Imperf3kt »

XBDC36 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:20 am
Imperf3kt wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:59 pm Working that out can help you address the issue more accurately.
Probably a dumb question, but in what way?
I haven't read your post in full, so forgive me if I've missed this and you already covered it, but have you contacted the volunteers and asked them how they feel about the project, if they're still as interested as the day you started, or if they still have as much free time as they did when the project started.

Its not easy, and the sort of question you can't just bluntly ask, but if you can get an answer, you can try to fix the issue based on the response. For example, if they're just burnt out, maybe take a couple of weeks break, they'll be fresh and excited when they start again (Don't take too long, they might get used to doing nothing)
Or if their free time is limited, maybe arrange to work on the project in a different way. I'm not sure how, just an idea at this point. Maybe bring in another writer to help or idea bounce?
If they're starting to lose interest, talk with them, ask what got them interested in the first place, and why it doesn't feel so great anymore (it could be the writing is not as exciting as they thought it would be, or maybe its a lot more work than they expected, etc) To fix it, maybe you could incorporate some new ideas based on things that have interested or excited them lately, assuming your game is flexible enough of course.
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#13 Post by XBDC36 »

Imperf3kt wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:15 am
XBDC36 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:20 am
Imperf3kt wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:59 pm Working that out can help you address the issue more accurately.
Probably a dumb question, but in what way?
I haven't read your post in full, so forgive me if I've missed this and you already covered it, but have you contacted the volunteers and asked them how they feel about the project, if they're still as interested as the day you started, or if they still have as much free time as they did when the project started.

Its not easy, and the sort of question you can't just bluntly ask, but if you can get an answer, you can try to fix the issue based on the response. For example, if they're just burnt out, maybe take a couple of weeks break, they'll be fresh and excited when they start again (Don't take too long, they might get used to doing nothing)
Or if their free time is limited, maybe arrange to work on the project in a different way. I'm not sure how, just an idea at this point. Maybe bring in another writer to help or idea bounce?
If they're starting to lose interest, talk with them, ask what got them interested in the first place, and why it doesn't feel so great anymore (it could be the writing is not as exciting as they thought it would be, or maybe its a lot more work than they expected, etc) To fix it, maybe you could incorporate some new ideas based on things that have interested or excited them lately, assuming your game is flexible enough of course.
A lot of good points here, so thanks for that! You said this though "Its not easy, and the sort of question you can't just bluntly ask". Another dumb question, but how come? Isn't being forward with everyone in a project always important?
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#14 Post by Mutive »

XBDC36 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:05 am
A lot of good points here, so thanks for that! You said this though "Its not easy, and the sort of question you can't just bluntly ask". Another dumb question, but how come? Isn't being forward with everyone in a project always important?
Not Imperfect, so will probably give a different answer. :) (And am curious to hear his (hers? theirs?))

But I think a lot of it comes down to that you don't want to risk *insulting* your volunteers. They're doing this for free and can stop/leave with no consequences, so asking something like, "Why are you being so lazy and taking so long to finish?" is unlikely to net you the result you want (them finishing the project).

Instead, phrasing the question more along the lines of, "Hey, I haven't heard from you in a while and was wondering if everything's alright." or "I haven't gotten the updates to the story yet. I was wondering whether it would be possible to get them by X date or, if not, if we can find a date that might work for both of us?" is likely to yield a better response.

(Also, on another note, skimming through the responses, I noticed that you mentioned having a lot of people working on the project. In my experience, that can actually slow things down. It's counter intuitive, as the thought is generally "more hands make light work", but in creative endeavors, that isn't always so. Any major change needs to be run by *everyone* (which can slow things down) + it's harder to follow someone else's voice than it is to use my own. It can also be frustrating to feel like you're working on someone else's vision vs. your own - esp. if you went into the project with the thought that this would be *your* story. So that, too, could be an issue and it might be worth considering whether slimming down your team might improve your overall process.)
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Re: How can I get volunteers to make faster progress on a game?

#15 Post by XBDC36 »

Mutive wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:50 am
But I think a lot of it comes down to that you don't want to risk *insulting* your volunteers. They're doing this for free and can stop/leave with no consequences, so asking something like, "Why are you being so lazy and taking so long to finish?" is unlikely to net you the result you want (them finishing the project).

Instead, phrasing the question more along the lines of, "Hey, I haven't heard from you in a while and was wondering if everything's alright." or "I haven't gotten the updates to the story yet. I was wondering whether it would be possible to get them by X date or, if not, if we can find a date that might work for both of us?" is likely to yield a better response.
You mean to tell me that there are people out there who actually write like that?? Because the examples that you put of how to phrase these questions better is what I normally type and I thought thatwas blunt? Yikes.
Mutive wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:50 am (Also, on another note, skimming through the responses, I noticed that you mentioned having a lot of people working on the project. In my experience, that can actually slow things down. It's counter intuitive, as the thought is generally "more hands make light work", but in creative endeavors, that isn't always so.
Well if you want to get really technical, I'm working with 6 people (not including myself). 2 writers, 3 artists (though they each have separate jobs like two have split the work of the sprites for example so one is working on sketches and outlining and the second is working on coloring and the third is working on backgrounds/concept art), and 1 composer. One of the artists and one of the writers are also going to do programming and GUI as well.
Mutive wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:50 am Any major change needs to be run by *everyone* (which can slow things down) + it's harder to follow someone else's voice than it is to use my own. It can also be frustrating to feel like you're working on someone else's vision vs. your own - esp. if you went into the project with the thought that this would be *your* story. So that, too, could be an issue and it might be worth considering whether slimming down your team might improve your overall process.)
What do you mean with the last part? All of us who are working on the story (that being the two writers and me suggesting ideas/reading/editing/etc.) collectively agree if an idea might work before we start writing it, so I've never really felt like it's my story as it is our story. Since this is based on a game that already exists, I depend on them (probably more than I should honestly) because I suck at characterization and many times when I've suggested an idea for a scene what I get most of the time is "nice idea, but the reaction of this character would be this instead of that". Originally, I was supposed to be the second writer, but because of how often this happened, I guess I got nervous and took on another writer instead and demoted myself to editor (which is something I feel a lot more comfortable doing. I get to read the story that we've all built together from our combined ideas and fix any errors that the writers might have missed or make dialogue a bit more realistic. Do you mean to say that having us all combine ideas like that is a bad idea?
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