BTW #9: The Future of EVN Communities

[lordcloudx]

BTW is a free, EVN-Centered (English Visual Novels), non-profit ezine in pdf format. It is published and maintained by the chatters in #baka-trio on freenode. This release marks the last monthly edition of BTW. New volumes will be released as they are available at our discretion.

BTW volume #9 is now available for download
http://baka-trio.lunaen.com/btw_january_2010.pdf

All releases: http://animerd2k2.blogspot.com/search/label/baka-trio

[Samu-kun]

Wait, an article about moe? This is a surprise indeed. XD

I thought the article was a pretty elementary feminist critique of moe. On a related note, Rocket provides a more sophisticated feminist deconstruction of moe on his blog. (But I've always disagreed with him on that point. I've held that moeblobs can be domineering and active and still be just as popular for a long time.) The problem with feminist critiques such as the one in this edition is that most people who claim to be feminists don't actually know feminist theory very well. My study of moe is heavily inspired by American political campaigns and classical Greek rhetoric while I suspect Rocket's study appears to be more grounded in the critical theory school of thought. (which includes feminism amongst other things) It helps a lot to have a decent background in theory when writing critiques of moe though.

[papillon]

The problem with feminist critiques such as the one in this edition is that most people who claim to be feminists don't actually know feminist theory very well.

Claim to be? There isn't one single organised monolithic feminist movement that people can get kicked out of for failing to uphold its principles. Saying you're a feminist is more like saying you're a liberal or a Christian than saying you're a Democrat or a Presbyterian. (or whatever). It's a vague general descriptor that doesn't really tie you to any particular set of beliefs. You can't even say that all feminists want equal rights for women, as there's the small minority out there who really do hate men and want BETTER rights for women.

If you're correct and most feminists don't know what you think of as feminist theory, that probably means said theory is far less important than you think it is!

[Samu-kun]

Seeing as you habitually make 1st grade level mistakes with simple subject-verb agreement, I don't think you have any right to talk about higher-level theories or superior writing techniques, Samu.

Now now, let's keep things civil shall we? My ability to proofread every single one of my sentences on a message board is utterly irrelevant to my ability to learn theory and is just a tactic to avoid the issue at hand. That's similar to me calling you an idiot because you forgot to hyphenate 1st-grade.

Claim to be? There isn't one single organised monolithic feminist movement that people can get kicked out of for failing to uphold its principles. Saying you're a feminist is more like saying you're a liberal or a Christian than saying you're a Democrat or a Presbyterian. (or whatever). It's a vague general descriptor that doesn't really tie you to any particular set of beliefs. You can't even say that all feminists want equal rights for women, as there's the small minority out there who really do hate men and want BETTER rights for women.

Err, that's pretty much exactly what I meant. The writer of the editorial uses a heavily politicized version of feminism that has become common in every day society and fails to understand that there are many different forms of feminism, many of which contradict each other. It has become all too common for a lot of so called feminist critiques today to be focused on just a single and often confused form of monolithic feminism that has become popularized through the mass media instead of offering a more sophisticated analysis that at least tries to reconcile all of the different forms of feminism to create a coherent argument. (which I think to be the case here)

[Samu-kun]

Mmm... I wonder just who the first-grader here is... ^_^;;

Tsk, tsk, that certainly is way to write a wonderful introduction to your magazine about keeping things civil and relaxed and then making personal attacks and trying to start a flame war in the community. That certainly is ironic and somewhat damaging to the credibility of the BTW Mag, no?

[papillon]

Err, that's pretty much exactly what I meant. The writer of the editorial uses a heavily politicized version of feminism that has become common in every day society and fails to understand that there are many different forms of feminism, many of which contradict each other. It has become all too common for a lot of so called feminist critiques today to be focused on just a single and often confused form of monolithic feminism that has become popularized through the mass media instead of offering a more sophisticated analysis that at least tries to reconcile all of the different forms of feminism to create a coherent argument.

I'm afraid I'm still terribly confused about what you're saying. It's wrong for the writer to offer eir opinion and even vaguely mention the word feminist without breaking down every existing form of feminism (which isn't even possible) in order to discuss it? I'm not sure the writer even identifies as a feminist at all, but simply complains that e's sick of seeing only submissive helpless and predictably-stereotyped girls. In a fairly short rant.

E doesn't claim "This is what feminism thinks of moe!"

[Samu-kun]

Well, that's why I said it was an elementary critique of moe. Perhaps a more in depth feminist analysis of moe would have contributed to a better essay. In short, I was not impressed with the depth of the author's critique and thought there needed to be a deeper analysis to convince me that moe is inherently sexist. Ironically enough, the "feminist" arguments within the essay were just as predictable and banal as the archetypes that the author apparently dislikes about moe - which was disappointing considering that feminism is an extremely complicated and multi-layered theory to say the least.

Sigh... Samu-kun...

FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU!
FUCK YOU!

Now, now... How about dedicating your time to more honorable pursuits instead of spamming the board with bad language, cloud? ^_^;; Truly behavior befitting the Editor in Chief of the BTW Magazine.

[Lanna]

Decided to take a look at it, mostly because - I'll admit it - I was interested in the article about moe. In the end it made me want to shout "YES. THIS." all over again, I absolutely loved it. :D

And apart from that, I also really like the layout, it's simple, looks nice, and makes everything easy to read. Now I'll go check out the other articles and the previous releases.

[Samu-kun]

Meh, then I just give up. Clearly, you are not at all interested in practicing any of what you write about. Since you have damaged the creditability of your magazine and your staff in front of the community enough for one day and since you do not seem interested at all in taking constructive advice, I will not continue this any longer.

[Enerccio]

Pah cloudy.
You are overusing one word. Use more variety, might do the trick.
Otherwise, I support your pursuit!

[Enerccio]

I would like say that the censorship that Pytom just did is just the worst thing ever to be done on this forum.
Well done!

[PyTom]

Folks, let me just suggest that rather than addressing trolls directly, you just hit the report button. (The little red ! at the lower-right of each post.)

Doing so will get them moderated if I agree with the report. You shouldn't address them directly, as that will just encourage them. You shouldn't quote them, as I dislike editing posts from other users, and generally won't edit out the quotes.

Papilion did it right... thanks!

[Jake]

I thought the article was a pretty elementary feminist critique of moe.

I thought it was a fairly accurate depiction of how all of us guys who aren't interested in tedious moe crap feel about the way it's pervading media and damaging creativity. There's only really one part of it which could be considered 'feminist' by the usual understanding of the word, and it's hardly the important point in the piece, its a discredit to the other 80% of the article to label it all as such, especially since 'feminism' is a politic which is broadly (and in at least some cases, fairly) mistrusted and disliked by men.

How is it 'feminist' to note that [unfortunately] there are enough people who buy moe stuff for it to become a fairly safe bet for lazy companies who just want to make money? What is 'feminist' about the observation that the stereotypes and tropes in moe 'stories' are generally lightweight and carbon-copy, and moe stories tend to show a lack of imagination or creativity? It's true that when a company deliberately tries to take a successful and popular trend and imitate it the result is usually tripe; you can't deny that several companies - and individuals - are deliberately aiming for moe, the difference is that this time around, the audience is dull enough - uninterested enough in stimulating entertainment - to lap it up anyway... but none of those points hinge on any gender-related principle at all, they're all just observations.

The point of the article that I read wasn't that moe is inherently sexist - that was merely a suggestion as to the reason it's so popular in Japan. The point of the article that I read was that moe is inherently dull, and it's damaging to creativity for it to be so popular, whyever that may be.

Of course, you're a well-known fan of proper hardcore moe, so I suppose it's only natural to expect you to dislike a criticism of moe fans.

[Tsundere Lightning]

Read it.

The Great American Visual Novel versus Impressive American Visual Novel article... this is important. I tend to be VERY annoyed at the fandom's tendency to put Japanese media on a pedestal, and the observation that we no longer need to prove we're as good as Japan rings true and is heartening to me.

I think I'm a good example of the kind of jerk mentioned in that article on cooperation vs competition. I like that article and agree with it, and I'm going to use it to inform my own behavior in the future.

The article on Moe... eh. It's a legitimate character type that's vastly, vastly overused. I have to agree that it seems to be a rather shallow critique of the character type, especially since there are moe characters and story arcs where the point is not "how helpless they are is cute" but "the fact that they are helpless is a problem and I want to help - oh hey she's cute" (see the Hanako path in Katawa Shoujo for an example). Making the observation that the fad is getting old is easy, but the rest of the critique just seems to be ranting about Japanese subcultural mores, and stereotypes of those subcultures at that. That, and I immediatley feel bile rise to my throat when I see or hear the words 'beta male' used in this or any other context.

Edited to add: Earlier, I attributed that article to LordCloudX, which was a stupid error. He didn't write it. My mistake.

[Ren]

After reading Samu Kun's comment I got an idea of the article in question that ended up being totally wrong - it was quite interesting and easy to read, and I must admit I agree with quite a few things in there (I'm now wondering why the discussion went so much on the mention of feminism, when it seemed to mostly talk about other things).
I'm also quite surprised to notice that, while reading Mikey's article, I came up with his same conclusion.

Certainly a more interesting issue than most, in my opinion.

I also quite liked the cover art, you're making interesting changes in your style, Cloud.