What do you want from a visual novel?

[Blue Sky]

When reading a visual novel, what expectations do you have?

Obviously, we all want a great, well-written story with high quality cg and charming characters, but be more specific. How can OELVN developers step up their game? What can we do to please you?


People always tell me that only my opinion matters, but games are different. They're meant to be played by many people, so while making my visual novel, I also want to keep the readers opinion's in mind. So what do you like to see? :)

Any comments are welcome, even if all you really want is tentacle rape. x)

[LVUER]

Well, other than beautiful art (and music), likeable characters, and well-written story... I won't ask anything more ^_^

Oh, I could use some great OP/trailers. Usually great games have equally awesome OP. And a hybrid game (some gameplay) could be nice, but that's not for everyone... and some half-baked attempt on adding gameplay could actually hurt the VN.

[lepapillonrouge]

Moar otome. (gets shot)

Well developed likeable characters with a non stereotypical personality (or some twist on a typical stereotype). I'd especially would like good main characters. Like Merui from RE: Alistair. I prefer if they had a personality.

[luminarious]

I want to be moved, and touched. Spiritually and mentally.

But making a good OP is much like making a good music video.. not for the talentless.. >_<

[number473]

interesting characters. And if it's a dating sim, then I definitely want to feel at the end that another of the characters than the one that I beat is interesting enough to make me want to replay the game, rather than just replaying to get all the CGs. In general though, I expect pretty much what I expect from a novel. I want some action, I want to be interested in what goes on and to be pulled along with the story, and most of all I expect to develop some interest in the development of the characters and their fate in the end.

[chronoluminaire]

Story and writing:
As lepapillonrouge said: good three-dimensional characters - i.e. characters with depth, contradictions, reactions that catch us by surprise, and ways they act that go beyond their stereotype.

Also, good plot twists - foreshadowed or set up earlier, so that when they happen, as well as being taken by surprise you can also see how well it fits with the earlier story. Robert McKee says a good twist should be "unpredictable but inevitable": i.e. the reader wasn't expecting it, but in retrospect (once they're aware of what was revealed during the twist), within the world of the story it had to happen, or at least it was set up that it was very possible for it to happen.

Also, characters or settings with more than meets the eye - interesting backplot that gradually gets revealed over the course of the story and ties in with (or drives) the main story.

Graphics:
Cute sassy girls drawn well

[luminarious]

And if it's a dating sim, then I definitely want to feel at the end that another of the characters than the one that I beat

That one seems to beg for wifebeating comments.. >_<''

Not that I disagree with you, just the wording amused me for a fleeting moment.

[number473]

And if it's a dating sim, then I definitely want to feel at the end that another of the characters than the one that I beat

That one seems to beg for wifebeating comments.. >_<''

Not that I disagree with you, just the wording amused me for a fleeting moment.

I kinda had that idea when I was writing it, that it sounds a bit strange. But isn't it right to say you beat a character if you got that character's good ending?

[Jake]

But isn't it right to say you beat a character if you got that character's good ending?

It's interesting to note that talking about 'beating' games seems to be an American thing, everybody I've ever talked to in the UK talks about 'finishing' games, in the same way one would 'finish' a book or a movie. This would seem even more appropriate in the context of [most] VNs or dating sims than it is with combat-based videogames...

And Americans wonder why we stereotype them as belligerent and combative! ;-)


[Edit: spelling]

[number473]

Somehow around here they go the terminology of 'clocking' a game. Go figure.
But I think I actually picked up the term beating a character from a translated VN where the main character kept making the comment that "That's why you're not a beatable character" to one of the minor characters.

[chronoluminaire]

I think the more usual term when talking about dating games is "winnable" characters. (There are other variations such as "datable" characters, etc. My visual novels page refers to "romanceable" characters.)

"Beatable" characters sounds like it's talking about a fighting game like a beat-'em-up. (I'm also in the UK, like Jake.)

[chensterrain]

Somehow around here they go the terminology of 'clocking' a game. Go figure.

I used to say that, too! *is also from the UK* Haven't heard the term since I was about 10, though, so maybe it's just fallen out of fashion? 'Winnable' seems to be the most common, I dunno. :B

On topic, as long as the characters are likeable, I'm pretty forgiving of lacklustre plots - give me some interesting dialogue and nice artwork and I'm pretty much set. (That said, I'm more a fan of dating sims than actual visual novels; I'd probably be less willing to sit through a long novel with a rubbish storyline, but hey).

[AllegroDiRossi]

I want a story that involves me and keeps me thinking about it long after I finish it. This is the reason I really like the Umineko series and other kinetic and adventure novels over regular dating sims, because they keep me involved with the story even after I finish it. With a dating sim, there's not really a connection (for me) once I start replaying the game to get the rest of the endings. It just becomes a checklist of achievements to obtain. With the novel, if the story has involved me and kept me connected, and then leaves me thinking about it afterwards, I think that makes it an excellent VN.

- - - -

As someone from the midwestern United States, I have used 'beat the game' for all sorts of video games that I've played, but in reference to visual novels, I always refer to it as 'obtaining X ending' where X can be 'Girl A's good ending, bad ending, etc.'. It's the mentality that comes from video games where you have to fight enemies (e.g. Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc.) because you really have to 'beat something' to win.

And Americans wonder why we stereotype them as belligerent and combatative! ;-)

Even if it's for the sake of humor, please restrain yourself from propagating stereotypes. Oftentimes, they come across as uninformed and narrow-minded and the stereotype can be offensive for people who fall into the minority you're targeting. As a US citizen, I will admit that we are more competitive than many people I know from other countries (including Japanese, Chinese, Korean, German, and UK citizens, whom I've all had the pleasure of meeting), but to call us belligerent is both assumptive and rude.

You need to consider the fact that our cultures are different in terms of propriety and what is considered acceptable behavior. Being more competitive-based, a lot of the actions that you construe as belligerent and combative are perfectly acceptable attitudes here. Conversely, most US citizens can also view UK citizens as uptight, superior people, but that also comes down to how our cultures are different.

And please, don't use collective terms like 'American'. The United States of America is only one of three countries on the North American continent, as well as at least fifteen countries in South America. For the sake of the argument we will relegate the term to mean simply North America, since the US was your intended target, but your broad-sweeping use of inappropriate terminology also brands Canadians and Mexicans with those same attitudes when you use that collective term.

[Jake]

And please, don't use collective terms like 'American'.

This is amusing, because:

a) USians use 'American' to mean 'citizen of the United States of America' without thinking about it all the time,
and
b) I often use 'USians', to be precise, but USians also sometimes presume offence simply because I'm for some reason not calling them 'Americans', so when I'm making a joke with no ill intent, as signified in an obvious manner by the ';-)' at the end of the statement, I tend to switch to 'Americans' to try and sidestep anyone's sense-of-humour failure.

Another stereotype in the UK about Americans is that they're terrible at understanding sardonic humour.




Do you wish to suggest another succinct demonym I might use? Because 'American' is pretty much all I hear from USians. Practically speaking, most people I know use 'North American' if they don't wish to refer specifically to USians, and people pretty much never want to refer to everyone who lives anywhere in the entirety of the Americas collectively anyway, so the odds of being misunderstood are pretty slim. I could refer to you all as 'Yankees' if you like, but that seems to me more likely to offend...

[Ren]

You need to consider the fact that our cultures are different in terms of propriety and what is considered acceptable behaviour. Being more competitive-based, a lot of the actions that you construe as belligerent and combative are perfectly acceptable attitudes here. Conversely, most US citizens can also view UK citizens as uptight, superior people, but that also comes down to how our cultures are different.

True, but, conversely, all those things which you listed as perfectly acceptable in your country, might be seen as belligerent in another country. And on the same wave of thought, a comment which you may take offence with might be seen in a totally different light elsewhere, or just by other people.

I'd say there's no need to start an out-of-topic discussion here, as that comment was, as you seemed to note yourself, humorous.

Another stereotype in the UK about Americans is that they're terrible at understanding sardonic humour.

In which case, you should keep it in mind, when you reply to a comment like that and not continue on the same vein. While I do understand that being singled out for a humorous comment like that can be annoying, it would be best to just answer to it leaving out /more/ humour, if you think you might be misunderstood.

This is totally not my business, but I'm butting in because I'd like people to both be less touchy /and/ count until ten, before they speak, on this board.

On topic: I'd like visual novels to be about anything, without sticking to the same formulae all the time and to try to not use crutches just for the sake of fitting in.
Even if I'm a scribbler myself, I'm not impressed by most art in VNs: I'll gladly take anything scribbly, anatomically incorrect and weird over over-polished , uninteresting art. That said, it seems to me that the standards for art are pretty low, a lot of stuff that gets praised as amazing is in my opinion average at best.

I like things that I'll be fond of over the years, like Black Pencil. Ask me to explain why I love it so much, and I won-t be able to point it out so well, but it still has a place in my heart. In black and white and with all the flaws the drawings may have.